@Kshithij fair point. Also the canards must really be detrimental to rcs.Taiwan radars have already detected and analysed the RCS of J-20...
You better check what your IAF chief really said and what he really means.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TapatalkDid India’s Su-30s were able to see Chinese J-20 Stealth aircraft?
SOURCE: ABHOY ROY / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG
Earlier this year in January, People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) started conducting its regular high altitude combat training exercise at Roof of the World from its Tibetian Airbases facing towards Indian border. Two Week Combat training exercise for the first time saw the deployment of China’s first Stealth aircraft J-20 practicing beyond-visual-range air combat with other frontline fighter aircraft’s like J-10C and Shenyang J-11.
India-centric Air Force training by China was largely seen as their attempts to take control of the skies, which will be pivotal in case of a possible India-China conflict. PLAAF in the recent years was able to convert its forwards bass in Tibet into all whether airbases which allowed them to maintain their presence near Indian border all year along, which lead to Indian counter moves with the deployment of frontline aircraft like Sukhoi-30s and Mig-29s along with an installation of long ranged Radars to monitor their activities .
Once Two-week operations were conducted by PLAAF, In March this year IAF said that China’s new J-20 fighter jet is not stealthy enough and the Indian Air Force (IAF) has the capability to tackle the threat posed by it,Indian Air force officer also went to link purchase of S-400 from Russia as one of the important component in enhancing IAF’s Capabilities in tracking and destroying J-20 stealth fighters if they ever cross Indian borders to target Eastern Indian Cities .
The Revelations made by Senior ranked IAF officer was largely seen as brainstormed facts coming straight out of IAF’s Internal In-depth threat assessment which was carried out on specifically on J-20 and its capabilities and how it can affect its operations in the Eastern sector and How IAF’s Su-30MKIs deployed in the region will be able to handle them in case of a war in the region .
IAF of lately has increased its High-altitude training in the region and recently in Indian Air Force’s biggest ever and almost real war game, Exercise Gaganshakti, IAF’s combat aircraft’s including Su-30MKI practiced hitting at targets at high altitude areas along the border with China.
After IAF concluded Exercise Gaganshakti, IAF Chief while again speaking on the Chinese J-20 Stealth aircraft may have confirmed what many in Indian and Western Intelligence agencies believed for years now that Chinese Stealth aircrafts are nowhere as stealthy as they claim and can be detected not with use of any special dedicated Stealth Radars but also can be tracked using existing radars technology at disposal .
IAF Chief also added that ” Sukhoi’s Radar can detect them ” so deployment of J-20 doesn’t shift the balance of power in the region. While he never confirmed claims he was making was backed by hard facts or were more a rhetoric in nature but it did raise many eyebrows in Western Intelligence agencies who have been very keen on collecting data on J-20 program.
Did J-20 deployed at unspecified airports on the Tibetan plateau region were flown close to the Indian border to gauge detection and tracking capabilities of India in the region? , was Secretive J-20 deployed by PLAAF to explore and exploit entry points in the region for possible conflict scenarios? , IAF which becomes super active in the region every time PLAAF conducts air exercise near its border able to track and detect them? , Frontline Su-30s which are tasked to monitor such air exercises by PLAAF were able to sniff J-20 in the area? Well we might never get straight answers to this questions from both sides but it will be assumed that China will be very keen on deploying this jets permanently in the region once they produce enough of them in their services and IAF always will be very keen on collecting further data on this jets to always remain ready to take them on in possible conflict scenario in the future .
http://idrw.org/did-indias-su-30s-were-able-to-see-chinese-j-20-stealth-aircraft/
This is what air force cheif said earlier..... At 1 hr and 8 mins. You can't have a cranked wing exposed edges and Canards on an stealth aircraft neither you can end up with edges at the designs of intakes.
Well there won't be a single MKI in the contested airspace, besides modern ground based radars have much improved ROC (Receiver Operator Characteristics), they can differentiate pretty well a flock of birds in airspace or a entire squadron of jets.
Well J20 was exercised in Tibet while Su30 in Indian airspace, it's not certainly 8 kms to 20kms separating them.
Interesting........... If we have to believe this, J-20 is a formidable opponent while taking head on. But its RS would be suicidal against any SAM or AAM in pursuit.Taiwan radars have already detected and analysed the RCS of J-20...
It might be useful if doing 1v1 engagements but the modern battle space is cluttered with multiple radars covering multiple angles. The J-20 would easily be detected in any engagement, the important capability to have is networked sensors.
Actually present day stealth is only for 1 to 1 engagement. Its main objective is to beat the high frequency RADAR like X band and so. A true stealth design as of now is B2 spirit in my opinion. It has been good enough to beat ground based LR RADAR.
Well, there are plenty of HF, VHF radars can detect the F-22 or F35 from 300 to 400 kilometre or even more. But these radars have a common problems: terrible accuracy. They can only tell the fighters that stealth jet is coming from which direction, but nothing more. Their own fighters won't get much information to help lock the stealth jet.
Specs of B2:
It is important to define what stealth is, that is an all-aspect stealth like an F-22 or only a reduced frontal aspect like the Super Hornet. The Rafale is not all-aspect low observable but it is from the top down as it was designed for low penetration strike effectively making it stealth in that mission, not to mention low thermal signature. There are different levels but the only true stealth plane is all-aspect stealth. The J-20 is more like an over-sized under-performing Super Hornet without the advanced avionics and networking.
Wikipedia says RCS of 0.1m2. This blog appears to be bogus. 1cm2 cross section is just a joke
I think there are many bogus site saying the same thing. Here is another one.
The simulation models don't take other extraneous variables into account like:
The stealth is only while face to face, not when looking under the belly. The RCS is lowered at the front of the aircraft but when looked at it from below, sideways, behind or above, the RCS is high enough to be detected. So, with multiple radar points on the ground and in the air (AEWACS), the detection of so called stealth plane will be quite easyThe simulation models don't take other extraneous variables into account like:
- Metallurgy (Build composition of the airframe)
- ECM and radar jamming capabilities.
- Altitude (you know if the jet is hugging tree line almost in sub-sonic and can lower it's heat signatures can drastically be less detectable).
- Turbulence and air drag (Can be simulated with CFD solvers but still real time situations is difficult)
These simulation model only interpret what radar reflection can come from every angle of the plane, i.e. geometrical radar cross section verification. But these extraneous variables can often affect the RCS on any jet. You can take few Hawk trainers, modify it a bit to carry one or two bombs internally and fly it just few hundred feet's above tree line ... there you go, your own stealth jet, the problem is to maintain your course with respect to the terrain which not only requires a sharp ass avionics system but also a top gun level'd pilot.
Certainly new air combat systems have these variables into play, when they go flying. So stealth works.
Detecting a single F22 or two of them is much difficult then entire squadron in an contested airspace, which I am mostly sure that the rules of flying a stealth jet our bit more different.
That's why F22s that are being detected in Syria might be very far away, and very few in numbers. We can learn a lot from Red Flag exercise. The engagements with a single or two F22 were seen from a long distance until a 4th gen pilot got lit with MWR (Missile warning receiver) all over it's cockpit.
If we put our thinking cap for bit more, it's certainly realisable that it's not that radar's can't detect them, the problem is, F22 were in the air space with very confidential AOA i.e. They were either approaching the 4th gen jet with a certain AoA that paint's it's RCS very low (Frontal aspect certainly), or they let the 4th gen jet come closer to them, without burning too much of there fuel and remaining sub-sonic (reducing IR signature). Thus a mind game happens here. Either the 4th gen jet pilot verify it by breaking the formation or just go with the usual course. If it breaks the formation to go Recon mode, it will verify for F22 pilot that certainly there is situation over here with multiple bogies, now an F22 pilot with AN-APG71 can put multiple radar locks from very far away and shoot BVR AAMRAM and leave the place (increasing distance so that AoA get's more blurry). By the time 4th gen jet reach a bit of historical distance it's too late, a homing missile is on lock on mode.
When I look at B2, It's also still stealthy, but you have a huge plane, yes at certain AoA it might appear as small jet. However, I am bit sceptical about B2 stealth characteristics. In current radar tech. S400 was designed to detect it and can certainly shoot it down when thrown in few numbers.
Coming over to J20, it's detectable with new radar tech, maybe the extraneous factors I formerly discussed, some of them yield no value to it's RCS. That's why you can differentiate between True stealth from fake ass stealth.
I've mentioned it in bold, frontal aspect stealth in a stealth jet is more important. But there are certainly loop holes in the coverage of airspace, which if it's there, than certainly a stealth jet would exploit it. Yes in a contested airspace (say Syria) it's logical to expect an all aspect stealth fighter to be in the airspace, so the Russians tested there theory by throwing ground and airborne radar assets. Boy they were successful. But it will not be always this type of situation.
Firstly, the idea of stealth is to shorter the enemy's detect range not invisible: i.e. AEWC can detect a third generation jet such as Su-27 or F-15 around 300-400 km but the distance will be narrowed to 100km or even less when faces a stealth plane. The gap already gives stealth plane a big advantage.
