Sukhoi Su 30MKI

binayak95

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Lol even if that would be true, it's still less noisy as a diesel-electric propulsion. That's simple logic that you are denying here, just for the sake of denying. :lol:

Any AIP is better than conventional propulsions, just as any stealth design is better than conventional design.
Woaah woaah woaah

You appear to have no understanding about just what makes a submarine stealthy.

AIP helps by removing Diesel gens for recharging a battery of the sub but it is not any more quieter than a sub running just on batteries and electric motors! So, a sub on combat patrol, stalking ships on plain battery power is as quiet as an AIP sub (theoretically).

Other factors determine the actual noise levels of a sub:

1. dampeners to isolate the various moving mechanical components (any noise source actually) from the sub hull
2. sub hull construction: double hulls enable more isolation than a single hull
3. anechoic tiles on the sub (or lack thereof) to absorb sonar pings
4. the overall acoustic design of the interior to prevent reverberations and sound amplification by the design itself.

Just plonking an AIP into a sub doesn't make it "Stealthy"
The fact remains we have been successfully tracking each and every PLAN sub from the Malacca Straits (and sometimes from Lombok and Sunda) to Karachi and beyond.
 

Kshithij

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Good idea, does su 35 is been certified for low altitude, high G, terrain masking for extended range by Sukhoi
.
No one certifies for terrain masking. Obviously, every decent plane will be capable of flying low and maneuvering well. Su35 is no exception
 

zebra7

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No one certifies for terrain masking. Obviously, every decent plane will be capable of flying low and maneuvering well. Su35 is no exception
Oh I forgot to add with full load. And with terrain masking, terrain avoidance, terrain following capability means does it's airframe is certified for that and does it have that sensors and radar capabilities.
 

Kshithij

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Oh I forgot to add with full load. And with terrain masking, terrain avoidance, terrain following capability means does it's airframe is certified for that and does it have that sensors and radar capabilities.
No plane can do high maneuvering with full load. but, Su35 can cut its fuel from 11ton to 6-7ton and carry 4-5ton payload and hence be more maneuvering than rafale for same 4-5 ton payload
 

zebra7

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No plane can do high maneuvering with full load. but, Su35 can cut its fuel from 11ton to 6-7ton and carry 4-5ton payload and hence be more maneuvering than rafale for same 4-5 ton payload
I am specifically asking you does su35 airframe is certified for flying low altitude for long distance with weapon and fuel load for extended distance and it's radar capable of terrain avoidance and could maneuver and take the stress of high G to avoid radar detection and it's fuel tank is also certified for that stress.
 

Kshithij

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I am specifically asking you does su35 airframe is certified for flying low altitude for long distance with weapon and fuel load for extended distance and it's radar capable of terrain avoidance and could maneuver and take the stress of high G to avoid radar detection and it's fuel tank is also certified for that stress.
This is highly vague. What is long distance? What is high G? Can you give G number?

About its airframe being ready, it is highly maneuverable plane and can handle high G maneuvering. But, I don't think the engine power will be enough for 5G+ maneuver in full load. You can't expect the plane to carry 20ton of load and maneuver well. Be realistic.
 

zebra7

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This is highly vague. What is long distance? What is high G? Can you give G number?

About its airframe being ready, it is highly maneuverable plane and can handle high G maneuvering. But, I don't think the engine power will be enough for 5G+ maneuver in full load. You can't expect the plane to carry 20ton of load and maneuver well. Be realistic.
Are bhai I am on mobile, G means to sustain the low flight and avoid natural barriers thus utilizing earth curvature and nature to avoid detection, and distance is the enemy airspace covered to the target and radar means the encryption capable of mapping ground target, detect, distinguish and target them. And yes does it's external fuel tank is capable of sustaining the stress of such flight and it's airframe are certified to carry out such an operation like SU 24 and Su34 pullback. Answer Yes or No simple and give link if you can.
 

Kshithij

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Are bhai I am on mobile, G means to sustain the low flight and avoid natural barriers thus utilizing earth curvature and nature to avoid detection, and distance is the enemy airspace covered to the target and radar means the encryption capable of mapping ground target, detect, distinguish and target them. And yes does it's external fuel tank is capable of sustaining the stress of such flight and it's airframe are certified to carry out such an operation like SU 24 and Su34 pullback. Answer Yes or No simple and give link if you can.
Radars are plug and play. They always can be upgraded. So, the older version of Su35 made in 2003 may not have that radar but that may have changed now.

Also, Su35 has no external fuel tank. It has internal fuel capacity of 11 ton internally. It needs no external fuel at all.
 

WolfPack86

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Sukhoi-30 upgrade

Even as HAL Nashik builds the last Su-30s on order, HAL and Sukhoi are negotiating the upgrade of the Sukhoi fleet.

HAL officials say they wanted to be the lead agency, but Sukhoi has indicated it wants a 50 per cent share in this lucrative contract to upgrade the fighter’s avionics, including radar, glass cockpit displays, electronic warfare systems, warning systems and jammers.

“The IAF has already frozen its upgrade requirements. We are now waiting for the commercial proposal from Russia”, says the HAL chairman.

HAL estimates that an avionics upgrade for the Su-30 would cost upward of Rs 100 crore (one billion) per aircraft, placing the cost of upgrading 312 fighters at Rs 31,200 crore (312 billion).

HAL officials say the upgrade will have two distinct parts. In Phase I, Sukhoi would take over some IAF Su-30s and use them as prototypes to install and certify new-generation avionics and weapons upgrades. Subsequently, HAL would install those upgrades into the entire fleet.

Phase II, which would involve India-specific enhancements, would be designed and developed by HAL and also incorporated onto the fighter by HAL alone.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

IBSA

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Did India’s Su-30s were able to see Chinese J-20 Stealth aircraft?
SOURCE: ABHOY ROY / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG



Earlier this year in January, People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) started conducting its regular high altitude combat training exercise at Roof of the World from its Tibetian Airbases facing towards Indian border. Two Week Combat training exercise for the first time saw the deployment of China’s first Stealth aircraft J-20 practicing beyond-visual-range air combat with other frontline fighter aircraft’s like J-10C and Shenyang J-11.

India-centric Air Force training by China was largely seen as their attempts to take control of the skies, which will be pivotal in case of a possible India-China conflict. PLAAF in the recent years was able to convert its forwards bass in Tibet into all whether airbases which allowed them to maintain their presence near Indian border all year along, which lead to Indian counter moves with the deployment of frontline aircraft like Sukhoi-30s and Mig-29s along with an installation of long ranged Radars to monitor their activities .

Once Two-week operations were conducted by PLAAF, In March this year IAF said that China’s new J-20 fighter jet is not stealthy enough and the Indian Air Force (IAF) has the capability to tackle the threat posed by it,Indian Air force officer also went to link purchase of S-400 from Russia as one of the important component in enhancing IAF’s Capabilities in tracking and destroying J-20 stealth fighters if they ever cross Indian borders to target Eastern Indian Cities .

The Revelations made by Senior ranked IAF officer was largely seen as brainstormed facts coming straight out of IAF’s Internal In-depth threat assessment which was carried out on specifically on J-20 and its capabilities and how it can affect its operations in the Eastern sector and How IAF’s Su-30MKIs deployed in the region will be able to handle them in case of a war in the region .

IAF of lately has increased its High-altitude training in the region and recently in Indian Air Force’s biggest ever and almost real war game, Exercise Gaganshakti, IAF’s combat aircraft’s including Su-30MKI practiced hitting at targets at high altitude areas along the border with China.

After IAF concluded Exercise Gaganshakti, IAF Chief while again speaking on the Chinese J-20 Stealth aircraft may have confirmed what many in Indian and Western Intelligence agencies believed for years now that Chinese Stealth aircrafts are nowhere as stealthy as they claim and can be detected not with use of any special dedicated Stealth Radars but also can be tracked using existing radars technology at disposal .

IAF Chief also added that ” Sukhoi’s Radar can detect them ” so deployment of J-20 doesn’t shift the balance of power in the region. While he never confirmed claims he was making was backed by hard facts or were more a rhetoric in nature but it did raise many eyebrows in Western Intelligence agencies who have been very keen on collecting data on J-20 program.

Did J-20 deployed at unspecified airports on the Tibetan plateau region were flown close to the Indian border to gauge detection and tracking capabilities of India in the region? , was Secretive J-20 deployed by PLAAF to explore and exploit entry points in the region for possible conflict scenarios? , IAF which becomes super active in the region every time PLAAF conducts air exercise near its border able to track and detect them? , Frontline Su-30s which are tasked to monitor such air exercises by PLAAF were able to sniff J-20 in the area? Well we might never get straight answers to this questions from both sides but it will be assumed that China will be very keen on deploying this jets permanently in the region once they produce enough of them in their services and IAF always will be very keen on collecting further data on this jets to always remain ready to take them on in possible conflict scenario in the future .

http://idrw.org/did-indias-su-30s-were-able-to-see-chinese-j-20-stealth-aircraft/
 

scatterStorm

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Did India’s Su-30s were able to see Chinese J-20 Stealth aircraft?
SOURCE: ABHOY ROY / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG



Earlier this year in January, People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) started conducting its regular high altitude combat training exercise at Roof of the World from its Tibetian Airbases facing towards Indian border. Two Week Combat training exercise for the first time saw the deployment of China’s first Stealth aircraft J-20 practicing beyond-visual-range air combat with other frontline fighter aircraft’s like J-10C and Shenyang J-11.

India-centric Air Force training by China was largely seen as their attempts to take control of the skies, which will be pivotal in case of a possible India-China conflict. PLAAF in the recent years was able to convert its forwards bass in Tibet into all whether airbases which allowed them to maintain their presence near Indian border all year along, which lead to Indian counter moves with the deployment of frontline aircraft like Sukhoi-30s and Mig-29s along with an installation of long ranged Radars to monitor their activities .

Once Two-week operations were conducted by PLAAF, In March this year IAF said that China’s new J-20 fighter jet is not stealthy enough and the Indian Air Force (IAF) has the capability to tackle the threat posed by it,Indian Air force officer also went to link purchase of S-400 from Russia as one of the important component in enhancing IAF’s Capabilities in tracking and destroying J-20 stealth fighters if they ever cross Indian borders to target Eastern Indian Cities .

The Revelations made by Senior ranked IAF officer was largely seen as brainstormed facts coming straight out of IAF’s Internal In-depth threat assessment which was carried out on specifically on J-20 and its capabilities and how it can affect its operations in the Eastern sector and How IAF’s Su-30MKIs deployed in the region will be able to handle them in case of a war in the region .

IAF of lately has increased its High-altitude training in the region and recently in Indian Air Force’s biggest ever and almost real war game, Exercise Gaganshakti, IAF’s combat aircraft’s including Su-30MKI practiced hitting at targets at high altitude areas along the border with China.

After IAF concluded Exercise Gaganshakti, IAF Chief while again speaking on the Chinese J-20 Stealth aircraft may have confirmed what many in Indian and Western Intelligence agencies believed for years now that Chinese Stealth aircrafts are nowhere as stealthy as they claim and can be detected not with use of any special dedicated Stealth Radars but also can be tracked using existing radars technology at disposal .

IAF Chief also added that ” Sukhoi’s Radar can detect them ” so deployment of J-20 doesn’t shift the balance of power in the region. While he never confirmed claims he was making was backed by hard facts or were more a rhetoric in nature but it did raise many eyebrows in Western Intelligence agencies who have been very keen on collecting data on J-20 program.

Did J-20 deployed at unspecified airports on the Tibetan plateau region were flown close to the Indian border to gauge detection and tracking capabilities of India in the region? , was Secretive J-20 deployed by PLAAF to explore and exploit entry points in the region for possible conflict scenarios? , IAF which becomes super active in the region every time PLAAF conducts air exercise near its border able to track and detect them? , Frontline Su-30s which are tasked to monitor such air exercises by PLAAF were able to sniff J-20 in the area? Well we might never get straight answers to this questions from both sides but it will be assumed that China will be very keen on deploying this jets permanently in the region once they produce enough of them in their services and IAF always will be very keen on collecting further data on this jets to always remain ready to take them on in possible conflict scenario in the future .

http://idrw.org/did-indias-su-30s-were-able-to-see-chinese-j-20-stealth-aircraft/
No surprise for paper tiger plane. If IAF Chief is saying this, then I am pretty sure, we have up our game in High Altitude Recon missions. But I am a bit skeptical, if our MKI's fired there radar, than it's a possibility that they are also being intercepted. Especially there new Radar stations up top near Tibet.

But at least we know we had it coming, it no biggie :daru:
 

Kshithij

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No surprise for paper tiger plane. If IAF Chief is saying this, then I am pretty sure, we have up our game in High Altitude Recon missions. But I am a bit skeptical, if our MKI's fired there radar, than it's a possibility that they are also being intercepted. Especially there new Radar stations up top near Tibet.

But at least we know we had it coming, it no biggie :daru:
No one can cross into big countries airspace without their radars on the ground detecting them and the SAMs firing at them. Today, the SAM will take care of most of the hostile invasion.
 

indiandefencefan

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No surprise for paper tiger plane. If IAF Chief is saying this, then I am pretty sure, we have up our game in High Altitude Recon missions. But I am a bit skeptical, if our MKI's fired there radar, than it's a possibility that they are also being intercepted. Especially there new Radar stations up top near Tibet.

But at least we know we had it coming, it no biggie :daru:
Wouldn't call it a paper plane just yet.
It is common practice for stealth aircraft during exercises to use an apparatus called Luneburg Lens which essentially renders them visible to all forms of radar for purposes of coordination. Stealth aircraft essentialy only use their true stealth in actual combat missions.
Below I have attached a picture of a J20 with a lens equipped (In the red circle)
What the Su-30MKI must have seen was such a J20 which was, for all intents and purposes making its stealth features void so I wouldn't go so far as to say the Su-30MKI's radar can detect the J20 just yet.

j20 luneburg.jpg
 

Armand2REP

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Wouldn't call it a paper plane just yet.
It is common practice for stealth aircraft during exercises to use an apparatus called Luneburg Lens which essentially renders them visible to all forms of radar for purposes of coordination. Stealth aircraft essentialy only use their true stealth in actual combat missions.
Below I have attached a picture of a J20 with a lens equipped (In the red circle)
What the Su-30MKI must have seen was such a J20 which was, for all intents and purposes making its stealth features void so I wouldn't go so far as to say the Su-30MKI's radar can detect the J20 just yet.

View attachment 25069
Luneburg lens only reflects on one axis so you need four points for full coverage...



If the Chinese were serious about the J-20 stealth they would have installed 4 axis reflectors but we all know it is not stealth now confirmed by the IAF Chief.
 

indiandefencefan

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Luneburg lens only reflects on one axis so you need four points for full coverage...



If the Chinese were serious about the J-20 stealth they would have installed 4 axis reflectors but we all know it is not stealth now confirmed by the IAF Chief.
Fair point, though onlookers like us have no way of verifying how the J20 was set up.
All we can do is speculate, frustrating as it is to not being able to know.
 

Kshithij

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Wouldn't call it a paper plane just yet.
It is common practice for stealth aircraft during exercises to use an apparatus called Luneburg Lens which essentially renders them visible to all forms of radar for purposes of coordination. Stealth aircraft essentialy only use their true stealth in actual combat missions.
Below I have attached a picture of a J20 with a lens equipped (In the red circle)
What the Su-30MKI must have seen was such a J20 which was, for all intents and purposes making its stealth features void so I wouldn't go so far as to say the Su-30MKI's radar can detect the J20 just yet.

View attachment 25069
According to DRDO chief, 70% of stealth comes from design rather than RAM coating or composites. So, I would assume that J20 is not a stealth design.

Also, I find it strange that a delta wing fighter was made a stealth fighter.
 

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