Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[striker609]

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...loyed-its-elite-j-16-strike-fighters-to-tibet

J16 supposed to be superiors to SU 30MKI ?

Vishnu some on su30 MKI upgrade.
A bit sensationalist. But lots of info.
Chinese su30 copy now have Chinese aesa.

Indian su30mki upgrade will take 5 years to be validated and 2years to upgrade the fleet.
Further upgrade will be allowed in India itself.
Cost 8000-9000 Cr for upgrade and testing
And 200 Cr for each fighter

So whole package may be 280*200= 56000cr + 9000cr = 65000cr. = 10 billion $.
35 million USD each MKI.

Radar offered is pesa irbis E which is deemed twice as powerful as current bars.

New missiles rvv SD 120 km and rvv BD 400km AWACS killer.

Also asraam to be integrated.

Other than irbis E everything else is good.
We need to ready Uttam for su30 but that will delay upgrade program by 3-4 more years.

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[Armand2REP]

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...loyed-its-elite-j-16-strike-fighters-to-tibet

J16 supposed to be superiors to SU 30MKI ?

What kind of AESA are they using? The same air cooled one talked about on JF-17?

 

[IndianHawk]

How is I-derby better than Astra Mk1. Both are quite similar. How Meteor can be compared to MICA? Meteor is long range whereas MICA is WVR.


Don't tell lies and pass it as facts. India used foreign seekers as UPA did not allow for development of seekers. India was doing ground trials of Astra for 11 years without even trialing from aerial mode from 2003 to 2014! But now Astra has indigenous seeker and has been integrated with Su30.

Su30 codes for BARS radar is with India as the radar processing unit is Indian design. Su30 has deep TOT which includes engine Technology transfer and hence no dependence on Russia technologically.


Since India makes Al31F engine, it makes no sense to import Al41F. Russia is not willing to give Al41F TOT. So, India will get a plane which will have imported engines by replacing Al31F with Al41F. This is not a good deal. Indigenous engines are important to maintain self sufficiency and hence can't be given up.


Su30 has its own jamming pods. Unless India recently replaced them with ELTA 8222, it still has Russian pods.

Astra is better than I derby. I wrote about derby ER version which is better than Astra mk1 as derby ER has an extra propulsion unit to extend its no escape zone .

Similarly I didn't compared mica to meteor, I simply pointed out that Meteor is expensive so it is sensible to operate a combo of meteor and mica together to keep things affordable.



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[IndianHawk]

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...loyed-its-elite-j-16-strike-fighters-to-tibet

J16 supposed to be superiors to SU 30MKI ?

Who knows. What we know is that Chinese have their own aesa and Chinese are willing to replace bars with it. Make of it what you will.

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[Armand2REP]

Astra is better than I derby. I wrote about derby ER version which is better than Astra mk1 as derby ER has an extra propulsion unit to extend its no escape zone .

How hard would it be to put an ER booster on Astra to get the same results? Not very hard I imagine...

 

[singhboy98]

Who knows. What we know is that Chinese have their own aesa and Chinese are willing to replace bars with it. Make of it what you will.

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FYI, the Chinese never had the N011M BARS in the first place. Only Indian and Malaysian Flankers have them.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Who knows. What we know is that Chinese have their own aesa and Chinese are willing to replace bars with it. Make of it what you will.

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Chinks have no N011 BARS PESA radars. AESA requires very high voltage so more powerful engines are required.

Chinese may be using ~ 1000 T/R module AESA in J 10C, J 11D and J 20. However that is still under development and refinement.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Outgunned By Pak F-16s, IAF Plans To Re-Arm Its Sukhois With Israeli Missiles

The Indian Air Force is looking at the I-Derby variant of the Israeli missile which was unveiled at the Paris Air Show in 2015.

All India | Written by Vishnu Som | Updated: May 28, 2019 16:40 IST

NEW DELHI:

HIGHLIGHTS

1. 
   
   
   • IAF's Sukhoi-30s may be re-armed with Israeli Derby air-to-air missiles
   • IAF sources say Russian missiles do not match its advertised range
   • I-Derby missile is a more advanced than the missiles presently in service

In two years from now, the Indian Air Force's frontline Sukhoi-30 fighters may be re-armed with Israeli Derby air-to-air missiles after the jet's Russian-made R-77 missiles were found wanting in air combat operations over the Line of Control on February 27 this year.

Sources in the Indian Air Force told NDTV, "We already have the missile as part of the SPYDER (Surface-to-Air Missile) system. Integration (with the IAF's Su-30s) is the next step.''

Retaliating to the IAF strike on the Jaish-e-Mohammed training facility in Balakot on February 26, the Pakistan Air Force aggressively positioned a large formation of 24 fighters near the Line of Control (LoC). A handful of these jets managed to cross the LoC to fire precision-guided glide bombs towards Indian military positions in the Rajouri sector.

Eight Indian Air Force fighters, including two Sukhoi-30 MKI jets, were vectored to intercept the Pakistani formation when they detected the launch of several US-made AIM-120 C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) in their direction.

''The PAF surprised the IAF by launching air-to-air missiles from inside Pakistan-occupied Kashmir," says Sameer Joshi, a Kargil veteran. ''The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF air-to-air missiles which did not get a command to launch," he said.

Among the Indian Air Force's fighters which were targeted were two Sukhoi-30s which managed to evade the AMRAAMs which were fired at close to their maximum range of 100 kilometres. Fully defensive and desperate to escape the incoming AMRAAMs, the IAF Sukhoi-30s escaped being shot down but were unable to retaliate the F-16s because they were out of position and their own missiles, the Russian R-77s, did not have the range to realistically engage the Pakistani fighters. IAF sources told NDTV that the Russian missiles do not match its advertised range and cannot engage targets which are more than 80 kilometres away.

To meet its requirements, the IAF is looking at the I-Derby variant of the Israeli missile which was unveiled at the Paris Air Show in 2015. Integrating the missile into the Russian fighter will be a challenge and, according to sources, will require Israeli expertise, particularly in developing a data-link between the Sukhoi-30 and the missile, once it is fired.A fighter jet communicates with the missile through the data link and passes on updated vectors (location) of the fighter which has been targeted.

The Indian Navy was the first to integrate an older variant of the Derby missile with its now-retired fleet of Sea Harrier fighters. The missile is also the primary air-to-air weapon of the indigenous Tejas fighter which has entered service with the Indian Air Force. The Derby is also a component of the IAF's SPYDER surface-to-air missile batteries, and are considered several generations ahead of the legacy Russian systems which it has replaced.

However, the I-Derby missile, now being looked at, is a considerably more advanced that the missiles presently in service. An article in Aviation Week says, ''The new (missile) seeker is lighter and more compact than its predecessor, thus clearing valuable space which has been used by the missile designers to increase the propulsion system. This new addition increases the range of the I-Derby ER beyond 100 km., significantly more than its current "short/medium" range capability.''

The I-Derby isn't the only missile the air force is looking at to modernise its Sukhoi-30 fleet. The European MBDA manufactured Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM), the first of which were acquired for the air force's Jaguar fleet in 2014 as part of a 250 million pound deal, has been tested in wind tunnels on models of the Su-30 by the National Aerospace Laboratories in Bengaluru.

Once fully integrated, it will replace the R-73 short range air-to-air missile presently in use on the Sukhoi-30 fleet.

Simultaneously, the IAF is evaluating the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile for the Sukhoi-30. IAF sources told NDTV, ''The Astra is in development. We have ordered fifty (missiles) of the limited series production.'' Ultimately, though, the air force wants an extended-range variant of the missile. ''It will take ten years to get the Astra Mk2 in our inventory," say sources, a reason why integration of the I-Derby is being seen as a priority.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/out...arm-its-sukhois-with-israeli-missiles-2044172

 

[vampyrbladez]

Summary :

1. AIM 120C5 Range ~ 100 km | R 77 Range ~ 80 km.

2. I Derby Range ~ 100 km | Next Gen Missile (Better than both above) | SPYDER SAM based missile to be inducted n two years on urgent basis.

3. Astra Mk1 LSP started on 50 missiles | Astra Mk 2 to be inducted in 10 years.

4. ASRAAM tested on Su 30 MKI using wind tunnel models | To replace R 73 on Su 30 MKI.

5. Our countermeasures nullified the AMRAAMs. Could be based on Israeli tech which in turn is based around AMRAAMs.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Refer to this article for more information on our A2A systems.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...in-the-indian-air-forces-missile-arsenal.html

 

[IndianHawk]

How hard would it be to put an ER booster on Astra to get the same results? Not very hard I imagine...

Astra mk2 is already in works. It will still require 3-4 years of integration testing works .

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[IndianHawk]

FYI, the Chinese never had the N011M BARS in the first place. Only Indian and Malaysian Flankers have them.

So what radar did they had?

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[IndianHawk]

Summary :

1. AIM 120C5 Range ~ 100 km | R 77 Range ~ 80 km.

2. I Derby Range ~ 100 km | Next Gen Missile (Better than both above) | SPYDER SAM based missile to be inducted n two years on urgent basis.

3. Astra Mk1 LSP started on 50 missiles | Astra Mk 2 to be inducted in 10 years.

4. ASRAAM tested on Su 30 MKI using wind tunnel models | To replace R 73 on Su 30 MKI.

5. Our countermeasures nullified the AMRAAMs. Could be based on Israeli tech which in turn is based around AMRAAMs.

Thats I derby ER. It's already in service with Columbian kfir mated with elta 2052.

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[Armand2REP]

Astra mk2 is already in works. It will still require 3-4 years of integration testing works .

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It will take that long to get the Super 30 upgrade anyway, just integrate Astra 1 and when 2 is ready it is plug and play.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Thats I derby ER. It's already in service with Columbian kfir mated with elta 2052.

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Soon it will be with IAF as well.

 

[lcafanboy]

Since India makes Al31F engine, it makes no sense to import Al41F. Russia is not willing to give Al41F TOT. So, India will get a plane which will have imported engines by replacing Al31F with Al41F. This is not a good deal. Indigenous engines are important to maintain self sufficiency and hence can't be given up.

You are Rhenium obsessed and dream of 100000 fighter planes.

Indigenous engine? AL31 engine hot parts are made from alloy supplied by Russia. 1lakh fighters do you want fight Aliens?

S117/AL41 are reliable and powerful than AL31 and are also equipped with FADEC making it 4th gen engine. AL31 engine is 3rd gen engine fitted on a 4th gen fighter su30mki which will be upgraded to 4.5gen and if engine is not upgraded it will be only 4.5gen fighter in the world with 3rd gen engine which will degrade it's performance.

For your kind information IAF is in fact considering more powerful Item30 engine which much more powerful than even AL41 and are lighter weighing just 1300kgs. AL31 weight is around 1800kgs and S117 1550kgs.

I won't respond as I know you will come up with more rubbish and will make never ending debate....

 

[Vijyes]

Indigenous engine? AL31 engine hot parts are made from alloy supplied by Russia. 1lakh fighters do you want fight Aliens?

Talk on the topic. I never mentioned 1 lkah plane here and hence don't mix up.

Next, do you consume drugs that you can't understand that India makes Al31F indigenously? Where did the hot parts and other imaginary imports come from? Keep your mental problems with yourself. I only speak on facts. It is a fact that India makes Al31F indigenously

 

[IndianHawk]

It will take that long to get the Super 30 upgrade anyway, just integrate Astra 1 and when 2 is ready it is plug and play.

I derby ER or Astra mk1/mk2 integration is separate from su30 upgrade. Astra mk1 is already integrated and tested. Same will happen if derby ER goes to sukhoi.

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[Armand2REP]

I derby ER or Astra mk1/mk2 integration is separate from su30 upgrade. Astra mk1 is already integrated and tested. Same will happen if derby ER goes to sukhoi.

I doubt Russia wants Israelis looking at their source code. Just put Astra 2 on MKI and call it a day.

 

[singhboy98]

So what radar did they had?

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The Chinese Flankers (J-11s) currently have the NIIP Tikhomirov N001V. The J-11D is the new version which will be upgraded with the new Chinese AESA radar. The efficacy of these new Chinese AESA radars is not yet known however. On a sidenote though, if you are interested in the various radars in the host of Flanker variants (and there are a lot of combinations at that), go through the following article (link below).

https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html#mozTocId228428