Strategic Command to acquire 40 nuclear capable fighters

[Daredevil]

PAK-FA cannot carry big payloads coz her internal weapon bay is not big enough to fit a cruse missile..
To have Cruises missile she needs to carry it externally..

I'm not sure if cruise missiles is what the NFC has in mind. If cruise missiles is what needed, then can just make an land based LRCM which is less likely to be intercepted than a nuclear missile carrying fighter.

PS: I'm still not convinced by the fact that what is the use of these fighters when we have cruise and ballistic missiles to deliver nuclear payload.

 

[plugwater]

but the problem is our front line fighters and nuclear bombardiers are same aircraft -- which are very less in number(inducted) for protecting our long borders - and other fighters are need to be replaced it will be a good move if we induct 40 parallel with induction of iaf aircraft -

i think this is for Rafael -40 fast track induction ---politically,
russians are satisfied- by upgrading su-30
now mmrca will be F/a-18 or EF ---imo

Whatever the aircraft we wont get it before 2015 so in 2015 induction of Su-30 will be over. Choosing a different aircraft for SFC would be odd coz of obvious reasons. I am very much sure it be either MRCA or Su-30 which will be built by HAL.

 

[Yusuf]

MKI production will go well beyond 2015. in fact with all the recent increase in orders it will go to 2020.

 

[plugwater]

MKI production will go well beyond 2015. in fact with all the recent increase in orders it will go to 2020.

HAL has been told to finish the production of first 230 aircrafts before 2015 they may take 2 more years for the latest 42 aircrafts so definitely not 2020.

 

[vikramrana_1812]

HAL has been told to finish the production of first 230 aircrafts before 2015 they may take 2 more years for the latest 42 aircrafts so definitely not 2020.

Delays are part of our planning ....so it wont be a surprise if it is streched to 2020.........Lets hope for the best.

 

[keshtopatel]

The dust on this perticular issue would be settled, should we look at tender or request for proposal RFP. When India set the tender for 6 submarines, it stipulated its requirements in it, and that is in public domain. Similarly, if we have the RFP on this, we may be an inch closer to determine the motive behind it.

 

[Tshering22]

With an aim of increasing its lethal power, India's tri-services strike force is planning to acquire 40 fighter planes capable of delivering nuclear weapons. The Strategic Forces Command (SFC) has submitted a proposal to the Defence Ministry for setting up two dedicated squadrons of fighter
aircraft which will act as "mini-Air Force", ministry sources said.

This will be the first time that SFC, which at present depends on the Indian Air Force for delivering nuclear weapons under its command, will have its own aerial assets, they said.

The SFC does not want untested fighters but the ones which are battle proven and have capabilities to deliver nuclear-tipped missiles, the sources said.

The aircraft planned to be procured are part of efforts to strengthen the nuclear delivery system which right now is based on land-based ballistic missiles such as the Agni and Prithvi and nuclear-capable fighters such as the Mirage 2000, Su-30 MKI and Jaguars.

Created in January 2003, the SFC is part of the Nuclear Command Authority (NCA) and is responsible for the management and administration of the country's tactical and strategic nuclear weapons stockpile.

Attempts are underway to complete the nuclear triad by developing the indigenous Arihant class nuclear submarine and under-sea launched versions of the existing ballistic missile systems.

India's nuclear doctrine envisages building a credible minimum deterrent for maintaining a 'second strike capability' which will be massive and designed to induce unacceptable damage on the enemy.

The SFC is headed by a three-star officer from any of the three services and is responsible for implementing directives of the NCA. At present, the force is headed by Lieutenant General B S Nagal.

The force manages and administers all strategic forces by exercising complete command and control over nuclear assets, and producing all contingency plans as needed to fulfil the required tasks.

The operational missile groups of the Army are armed with the 150-250 km short-range Prithvi missiles and the others with the Agni missiles of ranges above 1,500 km form the nucleus of SFC.

We could perhaps acquire one of the following as SNC's fighter force:

1) Su-35BM---

MERITS: HEAVY ATTACK on both air and ground strikes; Can defend itself and doesn't need a fighter escort

DEMERITS: A new tech and needs specially trained maintenance and flight crew to handle the 2 special squadrons


2) Su-34---

MERITS : Powerful ground attack fighter

DEMERITS: but no capability to defend itself

3) Tu-22M3---

MERITS : Powerful bombers capable of carrying good payloads and having strategic reach deep inside China

DEMERITS : Totally vulnerable to SAMs as well as enemy fighters and needs escort

4) TU-160---

MERITS : Most powerful conventional bomber ever built and capable of carrying LETHAL payloads, covering entire China.

DEMERITS : Totally vulnerable to SAMs as well as enemy fighters and needs escort.


What do you people think

 

[tarunraju]

MERITS: HEAVY ATTACK on both air and ground strikes; Can defend itself and doesn't need a fighter escort

DEMERITS: A new tech and needs specially trained maintenance and flight crew to handle the 2 special squadrons

Not really a demerit, Su-30MKI pilots can seamlessly transition to Su-35BM. It's just that they have to make up for lack of WSOs. There's a UB (twin seater) variant, but that's only for training purposes. There isn't a WS as such.

 

[neo29]

Any Strategic fighter delivering nuclear weapon must be stealth irrespective of whether it has a escort of fighters.

The current solutions are B-2,F-22,F-35 and Pak Da.

We already have mirage 2000's for nuclear delivery. It would not be wise to buy fighter of the same caliber ( Non Stealth ).

 

[nrj]

^^^

F-35 plays a perfect role but getting it from Americans especially for Nuclear Delivery Systems is a different thing. Even the F-15 Strike eagle is good.

All the Su and Tu series are not stealth. We need absolute stealth. We dont want our fighter armed with nukes venturing into enemy territory and pop up in their radar to make it vulnerable to SAM's and Interceptors.

US will have very good EUMA in place before making F35/F15 available for India. Even with deepest negotiations, dedicated Nuke delivery through US hardware will not be legal as per the stringent clauses.

IMO for a long time there is no point in seeking US aircrafts for SFC's specific demand. I agree with you on stealth/LO features required in such option but the answer lies in Indigenous product or PAKFA (internal/external).

 

[nrj]

Yes i agree both are different but in case if we choose Su-30 or MRCA winner HAL will build the aircrafts which will further slow the down IAF induction rate based on assumption that HAL cant open a separate production line for SFC

I feel Most probably MKI will be (or has become?) the SFC's air platform for Nuke delivery. On the compromise of IAF's MKI production rate, it seems that these 40 MKIs be ordered directly from Russian facility to spare HAL from the nightmare.

Like you mentioned, IAF will also be in position to provide their fighters to SFC in future. But as I said before the specific details of SFC's arrangement won't surface in Public domain. People outside that short circle will always keep guessing on what actual number of aircrafts does SFC have, who maintains them, what armament it has, what will be escorts for the same, etc.

 

[Agantrope]

We could perhaps acquire one of the following as SNC's fighter force:

1) Su-35BM---

MERITS: HEAVY ATTACK on both air and ground strikes; Can defend itself and doesn't need a fighter escort

DEMERITS: A new tech and needs specially trained maintenance and flight crew to handle the 2 special squadrons


2) Su-34---

MERITS : Powerful ground attack fighter

DEMERITS: but no capability to defend itself

3) Tu-22M3---

MERITS : Powerful bombers capable of carrying good payloads and having strategic reach deep inside China

DEMERITS : Totally vulnerable to SAMs as well as enemy fighters and needs escort

4) TU-160---

MERITS : Most powerful conventional bomber ever built and capable of carrying LETHAL payloads, covering entire China.

DEMERITS : Totally vulnerable to SAMs as well as enemy fighters and needs escort.


What do you people think

Tshering, Su-35BM developed based on the Su-30MKI and the Su-37. So training and infrastructure wont be a problem

Su-34 can carry a pair of WVR and BVR with the normal payload

 

[sayareakd]

i think SFC will go for SU 30MKI which will be specially modify to have cruise missile with nukes on to its wings a part from A2A missiles for very long range missions.

That will be cheaper choice in long run (training, logistics and compability wise) and it will be easy to hide such planes with other MKIs in IAF.

Guys lets have some practical solution for SFC.

 

[Patriot]

Top Contenders for Indian Strategic Forces Command (SFC) Nuclear Strike Fighter

BY: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

Indian Strategic Forces Command ( SFC) surprise decision to have its own Mini-air force and its plans to acquire 40 fighter planes capable of delivering nuclear weapons have raised some eye-brows in fighter aircraft manufactures around the world . Indian Strategic Forces Command ( SFC) which was first created in January, 2003 has already submitted a proposal to the defense ministry for setting up two dedicated squadrons of fighter aircraft which will act as "mini- Air Force".

It will be first time for the SFC to possess its own nuclear strike fighter force. At present, the SFC has to depend on the Indian Air Force for carrying out the nuclear tasks under its command.

SFC is is responsible for the management and administration of the country's tactical and strategic nuclear weapons stockpile. at present nuclear-capable fighters such as the Mirage 2000, Su-30 MKI and Jaguars form the back bone of SFC aerial nuclear platform .

TOP Contenders for SFC Nuclear Strike Fighter as per defence expert Rakesh sharma along with IDRW TEAM are

*Su-30MKI- Russian designed Su-30MKI fighter jets are "possibly the best logical " choice for SFC Aircraft requirements since Indian air force is already operating them in large numbers , it also will be easy to maintain and operate this aircraft's because IAF already has huge infrastructure in place for their serviceability and maintenance.

* RED HOT

*Su 34- The Su-34 (also known as Su-27IB) fighter bomber, designed specifically for carpet bombing and carrying of large weapons payload ,The two crew members sit side by side in a large cabin like a large bomber , it also has greater space for longer flights and comes with its own toilet for crew , this aircraft is best utilized for bombing missions and shares lots of spares commonality and ground tools ,machinery with Sukhoi-su 30 mki which IAF operates.
*HOT

*Dassault Mirage 2000 – 5 - Indian Air force currently operates around 50 of this jets and under recent Indo-French deal all older variants will be brought up to to DASH 5 Standards , Mirage-2000H at present represent nuclear strike force of Iaf , but production of this jets have long been stopped by French but United Arab Emirates which operates around 60 plus Mirage-2000-9 and Mirage – 2000E is looking to sell them and instead buy French made Rafale omni role fighter aircraft , Aircraft's will be quite similar to current standard of mirage 2000-5 aircraft's operated by IAF , which in turn will keep the cost of operation and serviceability down .
* MILD

*Rafale : Repeated offer by French for direct purchase of 40 aircraft's off the shelf and requirements of exact same numbers by SFC did raise eye brows in Indian defence community , is MMRCA path has been already been predicted and French will get a consolation prize in terms of 40 orders for Rafales ? well its yet to be seen which path government of India takes ,advantage Rafale has is that many of the ground machinery and support tools have commonality with Mirage-2000h which Iaf currently operates , but major disadvantage will be that cost of purchase which will be huge since Rafale comes with huge price tag ,and it will like Su-34 be easy spot for enemy to recognize them has nuclear carrying aircraft even if they are heavy escorted by other air superiority jets .

* LOW

Top Contenders for Indian Strategic Forces Command (SFC) Nuclear Strike Fighter

 

[Anshu Attri]

Top Contenders for Indian Strategic Forces Command (SFC) Nuclear Strike Fighter

Top Contenders for Indian Strategic Forces Command (SFC) Nuclear Strike Fighter

Indian Strategic Forces Command ( SFC) surprise decision to have its own Mini-air force and its plans to acquire 40 fighter planes capable of delivering nuclear weapons have raised some eye-brows in fighter aircraft manufactures around the world . Indian Strategic Forces Command ( SFC) which was first created in January, 2003 has already submitted a proposal to the defense ministry for setting up two dedicated squadrons of fighter aircraft which will act as "mini- Air Force".

It will be first time for the SFC to possess its own nuclear strike fighter force. At present, the SFC has to depend on the Indian Air Force for carrying out the nuclear tasks under its command.

SFC is is responsible for the management and administration of the country's tactical and strategic nuclear weapons stockpile. at present nuclear-capable fighters such as the Mirage 2000, Su-30 MKI and Jaguars form the back bone of SFC aerial nuclear platform .

TOP Contenders for SFC Nuclear Strike Fighter as per defence expert Rakesh sharma along with IDRW TEAM are-

*Su-30MKI- Russian designed Su-30MKI fighter jets are "possibly the best logical " choice for SFC Aircraft requirements since Indian air force is already operating them in large numbers , it also will be easy to maintain and operate this aircraft's because IAF already has huge infrastructure in place for their serviceability and maintenance.

* RED HOT

*Su 34- The Su-34 (also known as Su-27IB) fighter bomber, designed specifically for carpet bombing and carrying of large weapons payload ,The two crew members sit side by side in a large cabin like a large bomber , it also has greater space for longer flights and comes with its own toilet for crew , this aircraft is best utilized for bombing missions and shares lots of spares commonality and ground tools ,machinery with Sukhoi-su 30 mki which IAF operates.

* HOT

*Dassault Mirage 2000 – 5 - Indian Air force currently operates around 50 of this jets and under recent Indo-French deal all older variants will be brought up to to DASH 5 Standards , Mirage-2000H at present represent nuclear strike force of Iaf , but production of this jets have long been stopped by French but United Arab Emirates which operates around 60 plus Mirage-2000-9 and Mirage – 2000E is looking to sell them and instead buy French made Rafale omni role fighter aircraft , Aircraft's will be quite similar to current standard of mirage 2000-5 aircraft's operated by IAF , which in turn will keep the cost of operation and serviceability down .

* MILD

*Rafale : Repeated offer by French for direct purchase of 40 aircraft's off the shelf and requirements of exact same numbers by SFC did raise eye brows in Indian defence community , is MMRCA path has been already been predicted and French will get a consolation prize in terms of 40 orders for Rafales ? well its yet to be seen which path government of India takes ,advantage Rafale has is that many of the ground machinery and support tools have commonality with Mirage-2000h which Iaf currently operates , but major disadvantage will be that cost of purchase which will be huge since Rafale comes with huge price tag ,and it will like Su-34 be easy spot for enemy to recognize them has nuclear carrying aircraft even if they are heavy escorted by other air superiority jets .

* LOW

 

[bhramos]

i would also love to see the Su-34 in IAF colours...

 

[Atul]

The IAF needs to be more assertive, the Best available alternative will be the Sukhoi SU-34, Maintaining a Fleet of 40 no's will not be a problem.

This procurement needs to be done on priority basis. The chances of Russians winning the MMRCA seems very little, this deal can go as a strong signal that India still believe the Russians to be a reliable partner & supplier for Indian Defence arms procurement.

 

[p2prada]

Su-34 is a waste of time. We are better off with more Su-30MKI. Even Su-35BM isn't exactly a capability boost over the MKI so don't look at that either.

SFC will go for MKI, Rafale or SH, in that order.

If Rafale wins the MRCA deal then expect Rafale for SFC and Navy as well, the same with SH.

 

[captonjohn]

The possible strategy of SFC to buy 40 fighters may be send these fighters to penetrate enemy airspace deeper and then launch air to surface long range nuclear armed cruise missiles to the target. In this way remaining cruise missile will travel rest path to target which is the best and effective way in my view. China is developing anti-ballistic missile shield and hence our missiles won't be able to reach deeper in china easily. Also to be noted that all ABMS are being developed to kill medium and Long range Ballistic missiles NOT the cruise missile hence when our fighter will launch cruise missiles then it will hit target easily without getting killed by ABMS.

Think if our fighters penetrate china to 300 km deep and then release long range bhramose -I or brahmos - II then it will take few seconds to hit target and chinese won't have any time to kill that missile. Brahmose-I can hit target within 3 seconds so think how effective this way will be.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Think if our fighters penetrate china to 300 km deep and then release long range bhramose -I or brahmos - II then it will take few seconds to hit target and chinese won't have any time to kill that missile. Brahmose-I can hit target within 3 seconds so think how effective this way will be.

With strong chinese air defense systems any normal plane will not be able to penetrate 300 Kms into china without being noticed. Perhaps we should go for F35 or F22 .