Sino-Vietnam Conflicts : Spratley Islands and others

[LETHALFORCE]

USA will never let Taiwan join with the mainland, now with the Japanese and Australians in the Chinese camp and South Korea more or less muted by the North Koreans, Taiwan is still one last point of leverage USA has against China. No matter how developed China thinks it has become USA will always prevent any Taiwan reunification.

 

[redragon]

USA will never let Taiwan join with the mainland, now with the Japanese and Australians in the Chinese camp and South Korea more or less muted by the North Koreans, Taiwan is still one last point of leverage USA has against China. No matter how developed China thinks it has become USA will always prevent any Taiwan reunification.

USA will never let is one thing, can it will never let is another thing. Japanese and Australian are not in Chinese camp, they are always in their own camps.

 

[youngindian]

Taiwan warns of China 'threat'

Taiwan's defence ministry has said China's military strength is far more than it needs for self-defence and it is a threat to the Asia-Pacific region.

It warned unless 1,500 missiles aimed at Taiwan were removed, both nations would find it hard to trust each other.

Relations had been improving since the Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou, took office last year.

China, which regards Taiwan as part of its territory, has not yet responded to the Taiwanese defence report.

China has claimed sovereignty over Taiwan since the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949, when the defeated Nationalist government fled to the island as the Communists, under Mao Zedong, swept to power.

The documents say that China had "continued its arms build-up to the point that it has tipped the military balance in the Taiwan Strait", the AFP news agency reported.

The Taiwan News said the ministry wanted better communication with China and that "psychological warfare" was also a concern.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Taiwan warns of China 'threat'

 

[youngindian]

Top U.S. envoy in Taiwan: No change in island ties

Thursday, October 22, 2009

TAIPEI, Taiwan — The senior American diplomat in Taiwan said Thursday the Obama administration's policies toward the island remain unchanged and insisted that the 30-year-
old Taiwan Relations Act remains a good framework for ties.William Stanton made the comments at his first news conference since taking up duties as Director of the American Institute in Taiwan in late August.

"U.S. policy under the Obama administration toward Taiwan hasn't changed," Stanton said. "I don't think we can expect any surprises in that regard."

The U.S. shifted recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979 but under the provisions of the TRA, remains Taiwan's most important foreign partner, furnishing it with weapons to defend itself against a possible Chinese attack.

Taiwan and China split amid civil war in 1949. Beijing still regards the island as part of its territory and has threatened an invasion across the 100-mile- (160-kilometer-) wide Taiwan Strait if Taiwan moves to make its de facto independence permanent.

Stanton rejected the suggestion that 30 years after its enactment, the TRA is out of touch with the new realities in the area, including China's emergence as an Asian superpower.


"The Taiwan Relations Act has served us pretty well," he said. "(It) reflects U.S. interests and U.S. values. Interests and values are the bedrock of our relationship with Taiwan."

Stanton said a review of Taiwan's defense needs is "ongoing" in Washington, but refused to comment on the chances the U.S. will accede to Taiwan's request and sell it 66 relatively advanced F-16 fighter jets.

Although its relations with China have recently improved, Taiwan says it needs the aircraft to contend with China's continuing military buildup, including its efforts to overcome long-standing Taiwanese air superiority in the Taiwan Strait.

Top U.S. envoy in Taiwan: No change in island ties - The China Post

 

[RPK]

Taiwan considering proposal to mothball Mirage 2000-5 fighters

Link

Minister of National Defense Kao Hua-chu promised Thursday to consider a proposal to mothball the Air Force’s Mirage fighter jets in light of their low performance and high maintenance costs.Kao said the Ministry of National Defense (MND) will carefully evaluate issues such as how to maintain the balance of combat capabilities across the Taiwan Strait, before making a decision on the matter.
In the meantime, the Air Force will work with the French manufacturer in an effort to fix the problems with the turbine blades of the jet engines so as to upgrade the aircraft’s performance, he said.

The proposal to mothball the Mirage fighters was put forward by ruling Kuomintang Legislator Lin Yu-fang during a meeting of the Legislative Yuan’s Foreign and National Defense Committee.

According to Lin, the rupture of the engine turbine blades on Mirage 2000 fighters in May resulted in a drop of pilots’ average flight hours to six hours that month, which was only 40 percent of the minimum 15 hours required by the MND.

Lin also pointed to the exorbitant costs involved in maintaining the Mirage fleet.

While the maintenance costs of the F-16 fighters and the Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF) are NT$160,000 and NT$250,000 per flight hour, respectively, it costs NT$800,000 per flight hour to maintain the Mirage jets, he said.

Also during the meeting, Kao denied an Apple Daily report that a F-5E aircraft was almost shot down by an F-16 fighter in a recent aerial gunnery training exercise.

Kao told lawmakers that fire from the F-16 fighter hit only the cable to which the aerial gunnery target on the F-5E jet was attached. The F-5E was serving as a towing aircraft in the training exercise, he added.

He said when the cable was hit, the F-16 fighter was 2,000 feet away from the towing aircraft, and it is untrue to say that the F-5E “was almost shot down.” (By Lee Chia-fei and Y.F. Low)

 

[youngindian]

Taiwan planning upgrades to jet fighters

Oct 23 05:50 AM US/Eastern.

TAIPEI, Oct. 23 (AP) - (Kyodo)—Taiwan's air force said Friday it was planning to upgrade the island's U.S.-made and indigenous fighter jets to maintain the balance of air power across the Taiwan Strait.

The air force is currently planning midlife upgrades for its roughly 150 F-16A/B models, which it purchased from the United States in 1992, and its some 130 Indigenous Defense Fighters, which were developed and manufactured locally in the 1990s.The upgrades are aimed at boosting the fighters' performance and avoid a "gap in Taiwan's war-fighting capabilities," the island's semi- official Central News Agency reported Friday.

The upgrades would seek to address "the trend of the tipping of the military balance in the Taiwan Strait," the air force reportedly said, without elaborating.

On Thursday Defense Minister Kao Hua-chu told lawmakers that the military was considering mothballing the some 60 French-made Mirage models that Taiwan bought from France from 1997-1998. Factors including Chinese pressure on France and Paris' decision to halt the production of the Mirage in 2007 have contributed to a chronic lack of spare parts and logistical support for Taiwan's fleet, according to local media.

Besides Taiwan's struggle to maintain its Mirages, the island is struggling to replace its other aging fighters as the United States, Taipei's security benefactor, increasingly shies away from providing big-ticket weapons systems.

Since 2007, Taipei has appealed to Washington to kick-start the procurement process for 66 more advanced F-16 fighter jets, but Washington has been reluctant to sell them for fear of irking Beijing, which claims the self-ruled island as its own.

For its part, Taiwan has hesitated to upgrade its IDFs amid uncertainty over whether the United States will sell it the 66 F-16C/D fighters.

In the meantime, China's military has grown exponentially, with "the balance of military power in the Taiwan Strait now clearly tipped in China's favor," a recent Taiwan Defense Ministry report states.

At a conference in Taipei last week, Michael Green, former senior director for Asian affairs at the White House's National Security Council, said Washington's dithering on the F-16 jets throws into doubt its security commitments to Taipei.

"These decisions (on arms sales)...could have...strategic consequences if the F-16C/D sales do move forward in 2010," Green, now chairman of Japan research at the U.S.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, said, warning that the gap in capability between the air forces of Taiwan and China is rapidly growing.

Taiwan planning upgrades to jet fighters+

 

[RAM]

Taiwan to China: Withdraw Missiles Aimed at Us

TAIPEI - Taiwan's President Ma Ying-jeou on Oct. 30 called on China to withdraw missiles targeting the island to ensure peace between the two former bitter rivals.

China now has nearly 1,500 missiles pointed at Taiwan, with no signs that the build-up is about to stop anytime soon, according to defense officials.

Related TopicsAsia & Pacific Rim
"We hope that the Chinese communists will consider removing the missiles facing Taiwan to create a peaceful environment for both sides," Ma said as he met a group of former soldiers.

The island's total missile capability is not known. It has been test-firing weapons such as the Hsiungfeng 2E surface-to-surface missile, with a range of 600 kilometers, but it remains unclear how effective it is.

"We hope the Taiwan Strait will be turned from a battlefield into a region of peace," he told the veterans of the civil war with the communists in the late 1940s.

Although Taiwan has been governed separately since the civil war ended in 1949, China still claims the island as part of its territory awaiting reunification, by force if need be.

Relations have improved markedly since Beijing-friendly Ma took office last year. However, the missiles remain a major obstacle to improved relations, Ma has said repeatedly.

Taiwan to China: Withdraw Missiles Aimed at Us - Defense News

 

[ParacelVietnam]

Spratly massacre

As I promised, I give you a video that made by Chinese. This video tell you about a Chinese massacre in Spratly island in 1988.

YouTube - China´s massacre in Spratly islands [real footage 1988]

 

[tarunraju]

It looks like the video is removed. They forgot to remove the HQ version though.

 

[sleepy_worm]

On the occasion of celebrating the Chinese Navy 60th anniversary, a short clip that was taken
by the Chinese navy in 1988 has been publicized by her state medien. It shows the actions of
the Chinese navy in combat as the so called "self-defense" and conceals the reality of a massacre :

64 Vietnamese people were killed by 37mm anti-craft guns from Chinese warships in a few seconds

Here are some images of 37mm AAA that China Nany used during the incident (together with 25mm MG
plugged on the board) to sweep down all the undefensible Vietnamese into the deep water of blood at a distance of
about 300-400 by Johnson South Reef :40:

 

[sleepy_worm]

It looks like the video is removed. They forgot to remove the HQ version though.

the video is still in working , not yet revomed by user !

I can directly watch this Youtube-video on DFI forum by IE and also by FF, without opening a new window to view the video on Youtube page.
here is link to the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc

though as reported , sometimes Youtube´s access is corrupted for some minutes because the admins wanna reconstruct the main server , or somehow its connecting has been in defect , rarely anyway !

Every video has two viewing mode : HQ and non-HQ , if you can´t watch the video on the DFI page, pls click on "HQ" below and enjoy it.

 

[qilaotou]

Soldiers are fighters either to deffend territory of their country or to die for whatever cause they believed in.

In 1988 these VGs had two armed ships each over 800 tons and a 4000 ton landing ship that you got from China. The VGs had first gunfire at PLAs and be punished for their acts.

The fight with mashine guns and small canons (mortals) lasted 37 minutes. Over 60 VG and 6 PLA soldiers were killed. Two VG ships were sank and the landing ship damaged. The rest VG soldiers surrendered to PLA.

You little tearing fox faked stories and called it massacre just for getting sympathy in a cheap way. You know it's really an insault and humiliation to those sacrificed soldiers and their beloved ones. They went there with arms and did put up a fight but lost. They may not want to be considered slaughted like a coward sheep. You are taking their dignity from them.

Let em rest in peace!

 

[sleepy_worm]

PLA captured 9 VNs sailors that were floating on the water surface after the end of the battle, no one standing on the reef surrendered cause the Chinese troops left the battle field immediately after the battle finished.

I don´t mean the Viets are soldiers , cause they are builders that were appointed to build the houses (or something like that) on the Reef called Johnson South Reef , in order of the Viets Navy High Commander - as soon as possible - before the Chinese could do the same on it.

I don´t know and don´t care which side fired first , anyway the Viets landed first into the reef. For which reason the China marines decided to land into the reef ? although there were already a lot of Viets ? or they wanted to used force to take control over this islet called Johnson South Reef ?

Before 1988 , China occupied NOTHING in Spratly Islands, remember that.

And here are 3 escort frigates of PLA Navy that took part in that incident

Escort frigate 531 (anti-sub) , equipped with 100mm canon - mis, 37mm AAA and 25mm MG

Escort frigate 502 (battle cruiser) , equipped with 100mm canon , 125mm mis , 37mm AAA and 25mm MG

Escort frigate 556


in comparing with Viets side :

transport ship HQ-604 (made in China)

landing craft LST-848 HQ-505

and a transport ship HQ-605 in same configuration of HQ-604

all of them are NOT equipped with canon or missiles like the other sides

3 large escort frigates of China approached 3 transport ships of Vietnam and suddenly attacked them without any declaration of war .

Only your people call that as a GLORIOUS victory , and claimed that the Viets fired firstly , like the case 1962 vs. India , 1969 vs. Russia , 1979 vs. Viets.

China claims they´d never fire firstly but her mass troops always appear FIRSTLY in every border conflict.

 

[Koji]

Would you have rather had the Chinese hold back on their forces to have a fairer fight? LOL

 

[sleepy_worm]

Would you have rather had the Chinese hold back on their forces to have a fairer fight? LOL

Maybe :goodstuff: ,hope in the future armed chinas guys vs. armed viets guys :tank:

this strange ordeal was such an unfair match : armed Chinese marines vs. Viets builders :thumbs_thmbdn:

 

[tarunraju]

The VGs had first gunfire at PLAs and be punished for their acts.

Isn't that the standard PLA song? You piss about on others' territories, what do you expect? A red carpet welcome, wine and women?

 

[Koji]

Maybe :goodstuff: ,hope in the future armed chinas guys vs. armed viets guys :tank:

this strange ordeal was such an unfair match : armed Chinese marines vs. Viets builders :thumbs_thmbdn:

Merchants with machine guns on their ships.

 

[sleepy_worm]

Merchants with machine guns on their ships.

in fact, 2 transport ships and a landing ship vs. 3 escort frigates

here is the largest ship of Viets participated in the skirmish, landing ship LTS-848 HQ-505 , image recorded
several days after the clash. The 2 others sank as result

landing craft HQ-505
------------------------

seriously damaged by frigate No. 531

531 Yingtan / 鹰潭 (Jiangdong Class/053K) frigate

赤瓜礁附近海面战斗开始以后，位于赤瓜礁西北一海里鬼喊礁海域的越军505号登陆舰也向我531号舰开火，我海上指挥所立即命令531号舰坚决反击。 531号舰迅速利用速度优势抢占有利攻击阵位，随即以舰炮火力实施反击，越军505号舰难以与我531号舰对抗，很快505号登陆舰就被531号舰多发炮弹命中，全舰燃起大火浓烟滚滚，不得不挂白旗向鬼喊礁抢滩搁浅，后来该舰在鬼喊礁上整整燃烧5天

 

[indiana]

cruel incident !
to both sides : don´t attempt to join this deadly game any more !

 

[condorlp2006]

Seeking shelter from typhoon: robbed and beaten

SGTT (10.10.2009 10:41) 21 Vietnamese trawlers (17 from Ly Son, 4 from Binh Chau) were trapped in the Katsana typhoon near Paracel Islands. They had to make a choice: whether to run home with the typhoon in pursuit or to seek a shelter. Fortunately, all escaped death but their journeys were different.

4 trawlers from Ly Son decided to run straight to the coast. 17 others chose to go to Paracel Islands, which are under control of PRC. There is a shelter port for international ships on South China Sea which is only 50 nautical miles away. 200 fishermen on those ships escaped a natural typhoon but only to be hit hardly by human one. They were robbed and beaten by Chinese soldiers.

Welcome by gun fire

Mr. Duong Quoc Tho remembers (he were arrested one time by Chinese Navy during the fishing ban in June), in the night 26.09, he directed his ship to run toward Paracel Island with 4 tons of fish on board. Early morning of 27.09, they arrived to a port on Robert Island (Huu Nhat in Vietnamese), where there is a shelter port for ships on South China Sea. This island and other ones in Paracel group are also claimed by Vietnam but under control of PRC after a war with South Vietnam Navy in 1974. 17 Vietnamese trawlers (13 from Ly Son, 4 from Binh Chau) raised white flags and entered the port.

Seeing the flag of Vietnam, Chinese soldiers opened fire to stop those trawlers. The first ones immediately returned to the sea. Someone called Vietnam Border Force of Quang Ngai Province to intervene so all trawlers could stay in the port. The Vietnam Border Force contacted their Chinese counterpart and let the fishermen know that they were allowed to enter the port. They didn’t have to worry because nothing would happen to ships which only sought shelter. The trawlers believed and returned to port, only to be greeted by a rain of bullets.

Remembering that morning, Mr. Nguyen Phung Luu is still shocked. His trawler ran together with the one of Mr. Tho. Gun fire from the island lighted up the sky above them. Two leading trawlers turned around to avoid the gun fire. After several times, nobody dared to get closer. They dropped anchors outside. Meanwhile, stream of ships bearing Japanese, Taiwanese and Hong Kong’s flags entered the port. Late in the evening, seeing coming whirlwind and tsunami, Mr. Luu shouted to his friends: “Let’s all go in! They can kill few but if we stay outside, we all die.” All ships followed him to run into the port. This time there was no gun fire from Chinese soldiers. In three days of the typhoon, they stayed inside the port without any problem. And they thought they were lucky.

Robbed and beaten

In the morning 30.09, the sea became calmer. 17 trawlers prepared to leave the port. Suddenly, a group of around 20 heavily armed Chinese soldiers appeared on the port. They started boarding trawlers one by one.

Mr. Tho didn’t expect any trouble after 3 days. When Chinese soldiers boarded his trawler, only thing he could do is to knee down and raise his hands over his head under the barrels of ten rifles aiming at him. In the group of Chinese soldiers, there was one officer so everything went smoothly. Everything on the trawlers was confiscated: ECOM, GPS, depth measuring, diving tube, around 100 kg of fishes and even two coracles. He begged for the GPS to know the way home but they left only the compass and continued on the other trawlers.

Knowing what was going on, on his ship, Mr. Le Du quickly collected his electronic devices and hid them in machine room right before another group of Chinese soldiers boarded. Two leading soldiers, armed with hammer and machete, shouted at him about the ECOM and GPS. He shook his head to show he didn’t understand but accidentally showed them his golden necklace. A soldier immediately snatched it out and put into his pocket. The other asked everybody to give them what they have in their pockets. Mr. Du had to give all of his money and his cellphone. While other soldiers collected all food and drink and brought to their motor boat, the one with hammer started smashing around. After they finished, they continue to ask for GPS. Mr. Du pointed to other trawlers and tried to explain they were together so he didn’t need his own GPS. Two soldiers grabbed his 15 year old son, the youngest and smallest on board, and started torturing him by kicking continuously his chest. With a gun pointing at his head, the father seated helplessly watching the torture. When the boy fell unconsciously without saying anything, the Chinese soldiers left.

It was much worse for Mr. Luu and his son. His son, the 19 year old Tam, hid electronic devices and the cell phone into rice box. Unfortunately, the Chinese soldiers saw the charger in the corner of the room. They beat everybody on board to search for the cell phone. The young Tam could not bear it. After a few kicks, he showed them where he hid the devices. Found all devices, the soldiers turned mad and continued beating everybody even more brutally because of “lying to them”. They beat Tam so hard that his eyes bled. Then they left with everything except the compass.

One by one, 17 trawlers had to go through a nightmare. Almost everybody was beaten, some was left unconscious. Electronic device and food were robbed. Cheaper thing like water storage, diving device were smashed by hammer and machete. Each trawler lost around 3000 USD, which is a big amount for those Vietnamese fishermen.

Without GPS, Mr. Tho used his compass to go west. After two days, he arrived to his home town. The unlucky Mr. Luu lost his way to a province hundred kilometres away.

Mr. Du still had his equipments so he could continue fishing for few days to compensate his loss. But his 15 year old son was sick till the end of the trip because of his pain.

Telling his story, Mr. Luu cried “I am only a fisher seeking shelter without meaning any harm. How could I deserve being robbed and beaten”?

He deserved it because he is Vietnamese. Perhaps in Chinese soldiers’ eyes, all Vietnamese are enemy.

PLA Navy :
INHUMAN & DESPICABLE !

(((

Vietnam's Reaction to Inhumane Acts by Chinese Armed Officers toward Vietnamese Fishermen


MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS' SPOKESWOMAN NGUYEN PHUONG NGA
ANSWERS QUESTION ON 21st OCTOBER 2009


On October 21st 2009, in response to question from the media about Vietnam's reaction to the late September incident in which Chinese armed officers opened fire against the entry of 16 boats of Quang Ngai province fishermen to Hoang Sa Archipelagos for shelter in the wake of Typhoon No 9, and later beat and took away their possessions and equipment, the Spokeswoman of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Vietnam Nguyen Phuong Nga said:

"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Vietnam in the October 21st afternoon handed a diplomatic note to the Ambassador of China to Vietnam in protest of the inhumance acts by the Chinese armed officers toward Vietnamese fishermen upon their refuge in Phu Lam Island (aka Tru Cau by Vietnamese fishermen) in Vietnam's Hoang Sa Archipelago, occuppied by China .

The Ministry demands in the note the Chinese side promptly look into the incident, strictly discipline the officers who acted cruelly against Vietnamese fishermen, return possessions to and compensate losses for the fishermen, and take measures to prevent recurrence of similar acts."

http://www.mofa.gov.vn/en/tt_baochi/pbnfn/ns091022101747