Should we trade off Bangladesh for Myanmar ?

Sabir

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What drives that 'hatred'? explain pls.

to an outsider like me it's puzzling. Water dispute?? or territorial?
As I said, reason is the same that divided the country. Most radical BD people and Pakistani consider India a Hindu state bent up on their destruction. (I said "radical" and they are in good numbers in these countries). If you give a visit in some Pakistani forum you can find many blaming India for recent flood or recent cricket match fixing scandals involving some Pakistani player. Similarly, many people from BD (including my relatives there) are constantly suffering from a RAW centric paronia. I agree PM Hasina has done well for indo-BD frientship, but termed as Indian agent by many of her own people.
 

The Messiah

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Why do bangladeshis favour pak rather than India ? are they idiots or what ?

Sometimes people like them piss me off no end and i wish we'd had occupied them. Countries like bangladesh,nepal and sri lanka should be taught a nice lesson.
 
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Sabir

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Why do bangladeshis favour pak rather than India ? are they idiots or what ?
Because they were Pakistani, they are Pakistani (except a brief honeymoon in 70s) and they will be Pakistani....Nowadays I write East Pakistan instead of BD. There is thread by BD member Leonblack in BD Defence section. You can go through that...
 

The Messiah

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Why did they break off from them then if they hate India so much. Why did they take help from India ?

We are the only country that helped them....i hate ungrateful people. They deserve butchers like paki's....
 
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Strategically in many ways Myanmar is much more important than Bangladesh in Resources, trade, geographically etc... If Bangladesh is ungrateful after everything they can all buzz off. China in the future will be making a desert out of Bangladesh anyway when the divert the Brahmaputra.
 

Ray

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There is no real historical entanglement with Bangladesh per se.

Bangladesh is not in actual sense a legatee of the ethos and psychological animosity of Pakistan. However, there are those who have the Pakistani 'hangover' like the remnants of the Bengalis who were in the Pakistan Armed Forces since the anti Indian and religious divide indoctrination wash has been at top gear. And then there are the wahabis who are preaching Born Again Islam and a nation that is buffeted by all sorts of insecurities will have nationals who will see the sunrise in religion. In fact, strength of belief in religion clouds the fact of forlorn souls everywhere that they are actually walking into the sunset unless they realise the factual reality.

Bangladesh, after liberation, expected instant fixes. That never came since corruption was rampant and the Pakistani legacy of overlording the masses by the political and military masters was too ingrained to change. Mujib did it unsuccessfully and paid the price. So did Zia. Others were more successful and lived to tell the tale. In all adverse situations, one requires the Big Bad Wolf to give solace and shift the blame. India is the best whipping boy.

It can also be said the Bangladesh is not a loser. It is a nation that is quite fatalist in its approach, that is quite evident to anyone who has met Bangladeshis or visited Bangladesh. They are also a nation that is contented with little and burning ambition as is known elsewhere in the world, has still not bitten them that hard. Thus, they remain contended with the occasional outburst to keep up with the Joneses.

Bangladesh has not warmed up to the Indian overtures and the chance to increase their revenue. It is not so much for ideological reasons, but actually because Bangladesh wants a 'handout', a free lunch so to say. India, does not have the psychological necessity that China has to increase her ''footprint" over Asia and even if it does, it cannot spread the lucre with impunity since it is a democracy and has to answer its people, unlike China, where the CCP can take a decision and the Chinese people 'educated' through the vassal media and party apparatchiks who are there at every level of administration. In short, the Chinese people have no say in the policies of the Nation since they are not consulted through the hustings!

Democracy is indeed a luxury for all developing nations. But then, having had a long dose of slavery and imperialism, it better to have flawed liberty than a living death or exchange it for the gilded cage of a totalitarian regime, be such a regime political or through military dictatorship!
 

Ray

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In so far as Myanmar (Burma) is concerned vis-à-vis India's relationship, historically it is entwined since it was a part of the British Empire and was run by functionaries from India in the white and even blue collar jobs. Even today, there are adequate number of Bengalis, Tamils (mainly the chattiars who were moneylenders and other South Indians and even Sikhs out in Myanmar as a link to that legacy.

The political relationship was always cordial with Burma after India's independence. Aung San, a General who rebelled against the British and U Nu were close friends of Subash Bose and the Indian National Congress leaders.

India being a democracy unlike China, cannot be seen cavorting with the military regime of Myanmar, which is accused of human rights violations, rightly or wrongly. Therefore, India has to take careful baby steps. China is fortunate in a way that they do not have to worry about human rights or what the world thinks of its relationships with dictatorial regimes, be it Myanmar, Zimbabwe or Sudan!
 

thakur_ritesh

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Is politics a zero sum game? Are international relations to be viewed with the same lense? Above all, can we as a country afford a zero sum game right in our back yard, which might leave us vulnerable at crucial junctures when we would be looking for support the most?

India is taking huge economic strides which comes as a big boon for us in attracting our neighbours to have a share of that pie and the way in is to take small strides at a time and not rush with things and cause a panic amongst that country's populace. Let us keep looking at the attitudinal change, and if there is the warmth then take longer strides and if the things seem faltering we either try and trouble shoot it or take a back seat.

The good thing as I see it happening is SH this time round has not just grabbed India but has mixed India with Nepal, and Bhutan and who knows we might be providing them transit to SL, china and pakistan, and the other good thing which she has done this time which will make sure that she is not branded as being pro-india is that she has also got the Chinese onboard so over all she is doing a fine balancing act and then she is not only courting the big 2 (India, china) but is also actively engaging the Americans so when she goes to polls when ever they may be, her foreign policy wont just be about India but a lot more and she is our best bet there so it is important for us that she and her party clings on to the power corridors much longer than one 5 year term.

It will be foolhardy for Indians to make it a zero-sum game between b'desh and burma, we need not do it. As we grow in stature we need to have as many friends on our side, and if not friends then atleast make sure countries do not hold a harmful grudge towards us, because if we are not doing that, such grudges will be cultivated against us by others who want to harm us and at the end of the day we will be left to face one more problem which could have been avoided.

When we have both b'desh and burma friendly towards us then both of these if required can be played against each other at crucial points, as such both these countries do not see eye to an eye. What if we cultivate burma and tomorrow they get courted by someone else with much more lucrative stuff than what we are offering them and they bid a good bye to such, then we will neither have a burma nor a b'desh for us. We better think smart and not make the same mistakes of the past where for long we would not even touch burma for some stupid idealism we had, thank goodness we are over that, I just hope our babus are smarter this time round which atleast for now looks to be the case.
 
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amoy

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so far there hasn't been a 'successful' paradigm of democracy in Asian context (even Japan ,Taiwan or Korea) IMO.

China is very influential in northern autonomous regions of ethnic minorities but her economic and military ties with the ruling military junta (so called central government) are only lukewarm

How will Myanmar's upcoming 'civilian gvnmnt' steer her interactions with neighbors?

Myanmar's government-appointed Union Election Commission (UEC) has called for successful holding of "free and fair election without any mistake" ahead of the multi- party general election set for Nov. 7., an official daily reported Thursday.

At a meeting with region-, state-, district- level commissions on coordination of the electoral process on Wednesday, the UEC chairman U Thein Soe stressed the need to prepare the voting roll and list of candidates and constituencies, said the New Light of Myanmar.

He urged all the officials concerned to abide by the electoral laws prescribed in carrying out the tasks.

According to U Thein Soe, at least five polling booths for each parliament will be set up to enable voters to cast their votes in time.

The UEC has closed on Aug. 30 for enlisting of candidates from political parties to contest in the coming election in terms of constituencies and parliaments at respective levels.

Disclosed by the UEC, the Union Solidarity and Development Party (USDP), led by Prime Minister U Thein Sein, is fielding 1, 100 candidates, National Unity Party (NUP) 975, National Democratic Force (NDF), which a splinter faction from the National League for Democracy (NLD), 160 and Shan Nationals Democratic Party (SNDP) 157 to run the election.

The commission designated 330 constituencies for parliamentary house of representatives election and 12 constituencies for parliamentary house of nationalities election in each region or state across the country in running the election.

It also designated two constituencies for each township for election of parliamentary representatives in each region or state and one constituency for election of parliamentary representatives for each ethnic minority in each region or state.

The constituencies are scattered in townships in Kachin, Kayah, Kayin, Mon, Rakhine, Shan and Chin states, Sagaing, Tanintharyi, Bago, Magway, Ayeyawaddy, Yangon and Mandalay regions.

The electoral law reserves an equal number of one-third of the total number of parliamentary representatives by representatives from the military personnel nominated by the commander-in-chief of the defense services in the region or state parliamentary election.

So far, the commission has granted legal registration of a total of 42 political parties out of 47 which sought for entering the polls. The remaining five are awaiting for approval.

The 42 contesting political parties are made up of 37 new and five old parties left by the 1990 general election.

Myanmar government announced a seven-step roadmap in August 2003 which mainly include the reconvening of national convention, drafting of new state constitution, holding of national referendum on drafted constitution, sponsoring general election and formation of a new "civilian" government.
 

Ray

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One wonders if there can be any paradigm for democracy. In fact, democracy, whatever be the form, has to encompass the historical and cultural nuances in its structure. India wanted to mirror the Westminster style, but has ended up with an unique form of democracy. The US style of democracy does not resemble that of the Mother Country. In essence, only the basic intent of all remains similar, the path divergent.

Myanmar, being an important cog in the strategic scenario of powers that be will be an interesting situation to watch. Given the story of how big money is doled out by interested powers to engineer the elections, the outcome maybe dictated by money power rather than through a vox populi. It is said that in Nepal, there was an attempt to buy up the MPs so that it aligned to the power that be which was interested in influencing policy decisions of Nepal.

Whatever be the outcome, one issue remains paramount and that is that Myanmar be allowed to grow on its own. Will that be asking for too much given Myanmar's importance on the international strategic realm?
 

dr0ne

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Indians have to get over this delusion that just because democracy is beneficial to us in India, it will also be beneficial to us when implemented in other countries. Our neighbors prove otherwise.
 

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