Should India send troops to Afghanistan?

Discussion in 'Afghanistan' started by The Ultranationalist, Sep 7, 2019.

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Should India send troops to Afghanistan?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Not sure

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  1. The Ultranationalist

    The Ultranationalist Regular Member

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    Hi everyone, this is a much debated topic and the majority of Indians are opposed to the idea of boots on the ground policy for Afghanistan. Perhaps they think that there will be no significant gains from this and Indian lives will be lost fighting afghan guerillas for no good reason.

    But my views are slightly different from the general perception and i believe we definitely should send forces to Afghanistan but certainly not in the way the Soviets and the Americans did it. They went all guns blazing, killed afghans and got many of their own killed and had to withdraw finally. Bot the Russians and American do not have positive image in the mind of common Afghan people as they are perceived as aggressors. We surely cant commit this blunder and go and start bombing Taliban.

    Afghan people generally have a favourable view of India and they hate pakistan. We cannot destroy that goodwill by being perceived as the foreign aggressors as be it Taliban or the Northern alliance or any other faction they are Afghan. Our objective in Afghanistan should not be fighting any factions but denying Pakistan the strategic depth and use Afghanistan as a base to encircle and attack Pakistan in case of a war. Suppose we stationed our Army and the Air force near Afghan-pakistan border, we can use it to launch a pincer attack on pakistan in case of war where one pincer will be launched from Afghanistan, another will be an amphibious thrust towards Karachi and third and final pincer will be launched from the plains of Punjab and Rajasthan, tearing Pakistan apart in blitzkrieg war and finally all the three meeting in Karachi, while reamaining defensive in Kashmir as we dont have much advantage there.

    But before the above can happen we will have to win the confidence of the Afghans. If we could broker a peace deal between the Northern alliance and the Taliban where they can share the power instead of fighting for it and could assure them of non interference in lieu of operating bases for our military I believe that we can pull this off. Taliban may at this moment seem like a puppet of Pakistan but in reality they are mercenaries who are working for the interests of their Pakistani masters. If the price is good enough they will change their loyalties as Shree Doval puts it. Our job in Afghanistan should be rebuilding their country and supporting peace and stability while staying out of any conflicts with the locals and undermining Pakistan's interest.

    Its time we turn our military force into military power. I am uploading a video which i found very interesting and it made a lot of sense to me. Your views and contribution on this thread are invited,

     
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  3. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    BIG No.
    Better influence the local players with money. Huge pile of cash has to be kept ready :) It would be still lesser considering logistics cost to maintain forces and also getting body bags home.

    Russian after their withdrawal from Afghanistan learned their lessons. Not to introduce full military force, but instead rely on special ops and air aviation to get things done. The same has been applied in Syria.
     
  4. The Ultranationalist

    The Ultranationalist Regular Member

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    Americans will take care of the money part as they want us there.
     
  5. Haldiram

    Haldiram Senior Member Senior Member

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    All of what you've recommended should be done, and could be executed by Afghans acting under Indian patronage. It is already happening. India is flying over Afghan soldiers to India and training them in OTA and IMA in large enough numbers to use Indian weapons, trained in Indian communication systems and war doctrines, trained to work in augmentation with Indian forces. These people are being repatriated to Afghanistan and when the day comes to leverage them, all you have to do is air drop those weapons and execute your pincer maneuver. For that to happen, there's no need for Indian men to remain stationed until war breaks out. We can jump in at the last moment and take charge of 'our' Afghan brigades who are presently training in OTA.

    The cost for maintaining these brigades is around 4 billion $ a year, and we should pay that price, it's easy on our wallet and worth the investment. Everything has been wargamed and calculated and is being executed. Even China is training and funding an equal number of Afghan brigades. So there is some convergence between India and China. Big nations are not psychopathic gamblers who gamble away their nation's interest out of hate. Only Pakistan does that. Realpolitik has pulled China into Afghanistan.

    India may not be "collaborating" bilaterally but it is watching their moves and "co-ordinating" its own moves multilaterally. There is an above average understanding among India, China, Iran and Russia that the US is not playing a constructive role here. The regional powers need to throw in their cards to take over the strategic space that the US vacates so that Pakistan does not grow too big. Even China does not want Pakistan to have depth inside Afghanistan because it means their pet dog will not be obedient anymore and attacks in Xinjiang will increase. Russia doesn't want Afghanistan to be used as a launchpad to fan subversive influences trained by the CIA in Pakistan to move towards Russia's soft underbelly. Iran does not want the US to use the insurgency in Baluchistan to stage a land invasion of Iran, and India wants #PKMKB. The strategic interests have aligned. The tactical details will always remain muddled (this is done to keep the strategic intentions under wraps).
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  6. Haldiram

    Haldiram Senior Member Senior Member

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    upload_2019-9-8_12-27-50.png

    China is building military training centers inside Afghanistan. The US has smelled the coffee. They don't want China to be there, or at least don't want other regional powers like India and Iran to provide their accent to Chinese presence there. The US will continue to exist there but would like India to be on their side, instead of Chinese side. For us, we don't take a biased view, we'll go where we get a better deal. We respond well to carrots, we don't respond well to sticks. America with its colonial mindset never understood that. They are still trying to browbeat India into signing an alliance. Come back when you have something serious to offer.

    Swamy's suggestion that "the US should give India weapons for free" is a hint about how lopsided our bargaining position has become in this great game, to the point where India expects free weapons to go into the US camp. Imagine what the Chinese must have offered us for us to become so confident as to request such a generous counter-bid from the Americans. Such bargaining opportunities are to be cherished, not surrendered with quick deals.

    India should brace for a US sponsored "Afghan terror attack" to make a point that India is suffering because Indian leaders are dilly dallying on deploying to Afghanistan. Buffalo-headed Muricans will definitely do it as a last ditch effort to see if India falls in their camp under pressure, and saves them the trouble of giving us anything significant. We are not fence sitters because we are confused. We're fence sitters because "..not taking a decision is also a decision".
     
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  7. Lancer

    Lancer Regular Member

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    Yes and No. I don't believe in a conventional "occupation force" - espc if India has to take over from the US. India should however send SF & Intel guys (if they aren't already present) and embed them w/ Afghan forces; and also send aerial assets that can be called in by those embedded Indian operatives to assist Afghans.

    Anything more than that hinges on one of two things happening:

    1) US gets serious about squeezing Pak, and we help them out in the short term as both countries deal with this problem permanently.

    2) US leaves or cuts down its role; in which case India should try to build up a consensus and combined force of pro-Gvt Afghans/Northern Alliance types + Russia + Iran + India.

    Either way, Indian troops should not be left stranded in a never ending, completely clueless and directionless situation; at the mercy of Paki & Taliban Goatfuckers.
     
  8. Haldiram

    Haldiram Senior Member Senior Member

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    India should be "fashionably late" to this party. Wait it out and go in like a show stopper when the rewards are the highest, finish Pakistan and then make a permanent base in Afghanistan. No point making a base staying there now and taking an endless number of low intensity car bombs through our deployment.
     
  9. Lancer

    Lancer Regular Member

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    India will have to nail the timing and maneuver deftly. Don't want to be too early or too late to the party. Hopefully, as long as they have their health; I think Modi, Shah and especially Doval will be best equipped to deal with this situation.
     
  10. kstriya

    kstriya Regular Member

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    I completely agree with you, we should have a land connectivity or else it would be a very costly affair for India to maintain our troops. We would at mercy of Iran and they might abandon us for mard-e-momin’s. And if there is a future conflict between USA and Iran, we will be huge trouble... Troops on ground if we have the grounds of POJK and GB :india:
     
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  11. Mangal

    Mangal Regular Member

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    The fact is whether we like it or not Afg can not be left without a check. If US leaves we will certainly see a repeat of what happened in 90's. This time even China will be involved. The question is, just giving specialist support by our SF and agencies will be enough to stop radicals gaining strong hold? This strategy failed last time and ISI literally controlled Afghanistan for more than a decade. Secondly, India, in my view needs to put its foot down and stand up to occasion. We can do something like the French do. Send troops under UN banner. Leaving Afghanistan on its own would be a huge strategic mistake. We will loose lives one way or the other. We need to take the fight to them.
     
  12. Haldiram

    Haldiram Senior Member Senior Member

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    This is the prefect solution.


    Afghanistan is India's backyard, we wont leave it alone. India has already said that it is willing to send troops under the UN cover. Our soldiers will have be paid a UN salary and life insurance cover and countries found attacking UN troops will come under UN sanctions.

    The US wont leave. They are completely shameless and lie through their teeth. They have their own interests there for which they need to stay put perpetually. We need to be there for our own reasons, under a framework that protects our interests. Not under the American framework.
     
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  13. Brood Father

    Brood Father Senior Member Senior Member

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    sending troops to Afg will be nightmare and what happens if the things go south, how will send them necessary supplies, remember we do not direct access to Afghanistan and the only viable access to Afghanistan from India is from Iran (good luck with a member of ummah for any support during crisis)

    But we also cannot ignore the Afghanistan, with increasing Taliban influence we will go back to 90's
    So best solution is get back POK and get a direct route to Afghanistan.. Then show a big fuck you to china and USA
     
  14. bhavesh100

    bhavesh100 Regular Member

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    Yes, it will happen. Count on it if dice are rolled right way. If India want POK, bleed like some power. No free bee for INDIANS. DO NOT BE SURPRISED, IF INDIAN TROOPS ARE IN AFGHANISTAN IN 1000S. AS AN AMERICAN INDIAN, I AM NOT YOUR PORTER. YOU WANT BE WORLD POWER, SHOW ME YOU NOW WHAT
     
  15. uoftotaku

    uoftotaku Regular Member

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    For people advocating that Indian forces should be committed, here are some points to ponder:

    - Manpower : With current commitments in Kashmir, NE, IB / LOC / LAC, UN and Reserves, how much spare high quality man power would the IA have on hand to commit the required numbers to a rotational deployment in Afghanistan? Consider that given the size of the country, a force roughly equivalent to half the current RR dispensation would realistically be required just for the Southern Pashtun controlled areas (where most of the Taliban influence is concentrated)

    - Logistics : As members have pointed out, with no direct land or air access, our forces will essentially be cut off. Dependence on Iran, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan et all is not a good situation to be in as nothing but goodwill to stop them leveraging their position over us for various concessions (same way Pork has been milking Uncle Sam since the 1970s) We also seriously lack the logistical machinery required to sustain anything beyond a token deployment overseas (like UN forces) especially in heavy air and sea lift

    - Finance : At a time when we are in the midst of stretching every last available paisa on re-equipping our forces and upgrading the national infrastructure, can the Exchequer spare some billions more every year for an extended period to provide for this type of deployment?

    - Equipment : Do our forces have the sufficient equipment levels (or plan to) to sustain the type of operation they will be forced into in Afghanistan? Do we have the requisite number of helos (both transport and attack), tactical CAS aircraft, precision munitions, artillery, MRAP's and infantry support equipment?

    - Geopolitics : Afghanistan is a natural ally for India in the current dispensation. The Afghan public sees India in a positive light and the political leadership is certainly warm towards us. However, all this is fine to say because we do not have boots on the ground. Afghans no matter which period in history, have NEVER appreciated seeing armed foreigners marching through their land. Will we become just another invader in the eyes of the public if we put our troops there? Don't forget that both Pork and Cheena will react very negatively and step by both overt and covert support for the Taliban if India steps in. With the US and NATO firmly out of the picture, Pork will have no further incentive to keep its fake mask of civility on any further and turn into a full on openly Jihadi state. Will the Indian force have the will or the means to strike at the Taliban safe havens in FATA like the US does with drone strikes? If not then how do we propose to stop the main source of fighters and ideology?

    - Perception : The US has sustained (increasingly strained) ops in Afghanistan all these years because of the AQ link to 9/11. What will the Indian public need to throw their support behind a sustained campaign by our forces? Will there be an appetite to see casualties mounting just as the long fights in both Kashmir and the NE are winding down? Will our soldiers buy into the idea of dying for the sake of a foreign land and peoples? Will the memories of the IPKF be revived?
     
  16. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    protection and also the safeguard for access to central Asia from Bharat.

    reach and ability as well as capacity to be within areas of importance be it Afghanistan and otherwise - we are having an airbase in Tajikistan - similar model and business plans in other regions and places.

    also, Afghanistan has areas that are labeled Hindu Kush - perhaps a bit childish.
     
  17. uoftotaku

    uoftotaku Regular Member

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    Hindu Kush in Pashto literally means "Death of the Hindus"...named for the time when the erstwhile Hindu kingdoms which ruled that land were enslaved and worked to death making roads through the mountains
     
  18. Hiranyaksha

    Hiranyaksha Senior Member Senior Member

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    Iska badla kqb hoga dost ?
    Aur yeh naam kab paltega.
     
  19. Hiranyaksha

    Hiranyaksha Senior Member Senior Member

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    In coming 5-10 years do you guys see opportunity/ies where China and other stakeholders will be busy with their own problems and we can kill the porkistan?
     
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  20. Assassin 2.0

    Assassin 2.0 Regular Member

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    Idiotic to send troops plus spending billions of $ and in reality we are suffering arms shortage in home pesa kon dega itna losing our soldiers in someone's else war taliban have huge man pool 70-80k talibanis have died till date but still they are working there way to capturing them.
    Logically POK and all is not coming we are not US who is having unlimited resources plus nato backup plus Pakistani as slave.

    * a nation who is indulged in war it's economy also takes a hit who will pay for the increase in men? We need thousands of troops on Chinese plus Pakistani sides.

    * North east insurgency+ Kashmir plus border disputes are enough to tire our military.

    *We should focus on making our borders hard. Use advance technology to make sure no intrusion. We should make real hard borders push manpower towards building dams. Jihadi will never stop coming.

    * all this which I'm saying is our government policies. Even when we send troops for UN mission they pay us. No one will pay india for Afghanistan.

    *this is trap first you will send 200 troops then with need and as mission takes place thousands of troops would have been sended and we will get stuck leaving wars like these is difficult shit.

    *FINALLY you can fight wars capture places but how you will cure a ideology which is deep rooted? Thousands of people in Afghanistan like taliban they agree with there ideology. Afghanistan Taliban: 60,000
    (tentative estimate)[26]

    Haqqani network: 4,000–15,000[27][28][29]
    HIG: 1,500–2,000+[30]
    Flag of Jihad.svg al-Qaeda: ~300[31][32][33] (~ 3,000 in 2001)[31]

    Afghanistan IEHCA: 3,000–3,500[14]
    Fidai Mahaz: 8,000[22]

    Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant ISIL–KP: 3,500–4,000 (2018, in Afghanistan)[34
    Number of troops.

    *talibani troops are no joke they are still battle harden guy's from the time of invasion of American + nato. Taliban is able to capture more territory. 45,000 (2001 est.)[16]
    11,000 (2008 est.)[17]
    36,000 (2010 est.)[18]
    60,000 (2014 est.)[1
    Indian army is one of the best but why we should push our brave men in this mess which is build for gains of others? We need to understand these jihadi will never stop coming.

    *we should keep our self defence high spend billions on surveillance. So that our anti terrorist capabilities boost. If we send thousands troops in Afghanistan some 26/11 type attack takes place result will be in the end we failed to protect our people. Our moto is about our people. Surveillance plus defensive capabilities boost is required.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  21. IndianHawk

    IndianHawk Senior Member Senior Member

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    You know why Marathas couldn't rule India despite mugal emperor being their bitch?

    Because they fought an unnecessary war with abdali far away from their centre of power and it destroyed thier finance and their unity was strained. British later took advantage of it and Marathas lost. With them India lost 300 years of progress and prosperity.

    Lesson no. 1. No useless war. Lesson no . 2 no war away from home unless directly attacked by a foreign force.
    Lesson no. 3 learn from Vietnam and Afghanistan disaster of USA . If we have to fight a foreign force than just bomb it to hell but never stay there to build democracy .

    Afgans will have to sort themselves out. For which they need to be free of porkistan interference. For which we can force porkistani attention in defending pok.

    Also we need to make deal with fractions of Taliban and revive northern alliance type counter movement against Taliban which can fight dirty against Taliban. We need to work with Iran and Russia to keep our interest protected in Afghanistan no matter what usa does.

    More importantly we need to keep bleeding porkistan so that it can't interfere in Afghanistan.

    Once porkistani interference declines afgans will find peace among themselves.
     

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