Should India get the V-22 Osprey?

[ace009]

This is really interesting reading - USMC screwing with MV-22 accident reports ...
Osprey Down: Marines Shift Story on Controversial Warplane's Safety Record | Danger Room | Wired.com

 

[ash2win]

India sizes up V-22 Osprey

India has shown interest in the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey, although it has not stated a formal requirement for the tiltrotor aircraft.

Boeing confirmed that it was "invited in-country to provide more information" on the V-22, but that it has not received "an official, written [request for information] from India".

In addition, Indian officials visited the V-22 aircraft during the Dubai air show in November 2011, where they asked questions about the aircraft.

The V-22 would be well suited to operations along India's vast Himalayan frontier, where high altitudes and long distances hinder helicopter operations.

At last year's Paris and Dubai air shows, Osprey representatives made much of a mountain rescue mission in June 2010 conducted by two US Air Force CV-22s. The aircraft flew a 1,290km (700nm) round-trip at 15,000ft (4,570m), landed amid mountainous terrain in dust storm conditions, collected 32 personnel and returned to base.

In response to a query about whether the V-22 could be fitted with a radar array for use on Indian aircraft carriers, Boeing said: "While AEW&C [airborne early warning and control] has been identified as a future mission well suited to the Osprey's performance profile and specifications, it is not a mission performed by current customers and it would be premature to speculate on what specific equipment would be utilised for that mission."

In 2010, the Indian navy requested information from Northrop Grumman on the E-2D Hawkeye AEW&C aircraft, which is capable of operating from aircraft carriers using steam catapults. This aircraft may not be suitable for current and planned Indian carriers, which rely on "ski-ramps" to launch aircraft. This restricts them to using airborne early warning helicopters, which are far less capable than their fixed-wing counterparts.


India sizes up V-22 Osprey

 

[Nirvana]

This can be of good Help to Marcos and Amphibious Marine Brigade that's been setup !! Can be Operated from LHD's and Aircraft carrier's we will Possess

 

[JAISWAL]

India sizes up V-22 Osprey

not able to decide weather to post this artical in Army, Navy, or Airforce so posted it here.
As osprey can be utilized to all three service.
For Airforce-- heavy lift and special operations.
For Navy-- AEW&C for A/C.
For Army-- special operation similar to C-130J.
.
India sizes up V-22 Osprey


India has shown interest in the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey, although it has not stated a formal requirement for the tiltrotor aircraft.

Boeing confirmed that it was "invited in-country to provide more information" on the V-22, but that it has not received "an official, written [request for information] from India".

In addition, Indian officials visited the V-22 aircraft during the Dubai air show in November 2011, where they asked questions about the aircraft.

The V-22 would be well suited to operations along India's vast Himalayan frontier, where high altitudes and long distances hinder helicopter operations.

At last year's Paris and Dubai air shows, Osprey representatives made much of a mountain rescue mission in June 2010 conducted by two US Air Force CV-22s. The aircraft flew a 1,290km (700nm) round-trip at 15,000ft (4,570m), landed amid mountainous terrain in dust storm conditions, collected 32 personnel and returned to base.

In response to a query about whether the V-22 could be fitted with a radar array for use on Indian aircraft carriers, Boeing said: "While AEW&C [airborne early warning and control] has been identified as a future mission well suited to the Osprey's performance profile and specifications, it is not a mission performed by current customers and it would be premature to speculate on what specific equipment would be utilised for that mission."

In 2010, the Indian navy requested information from Northrop Grumman on the E-2D Hawkeye AEW&C aircraft, which is capable of operating from aircraft carriers using steam catapults. This aircraft may not be suitable for current and planned Indian carriers, which rely on "ski-ramps" to launch aircraft. This restricts them to using airborne early warning helicopters, which are far less capable than their fixed-wing counterparts.
.
.
India sizes up V-22 Osprey

 

[JAISWAL]

here are few images which suggest that V-22 osprey are optimised for carrier-born AEW&C.
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++

 

[noob101]

could the v22 replace the chinook in the heavy lift helo teder? after all the marines and other US military forces are doing the same...

 

[Killswitch]

This platform has had huge issues in cost overruns and technical snags.

For defending the nation I don't think its required. it was built to support marine expeditions.

MI 17's, ALH's, and MI 26/ Chinooks should be enough for the requirement.

Maybe in the coming years a more mature, less expensive, less glitched platform of this type will come along.

 

[Bhon]

could the v22 replace the chinook in the heavy lift helo teder? after all the marines and other US military forces are doing the same...

V-22's are faster, can fly higher, and can deploy paratroopers when compared to the Chinook, but the Chinook's better suited to heavy lifting needs. It does have enormous technical snags and recently the crash rate has been quite appalling but if we take a closer look we'll see that the this is the first time tilt-rotor technology has been applied to mass production, so some issues are bound to emerge. However, Boeing is in the process of sorting it out and constantly the US fleet is being upgraded.

Coming to the question whether we really need the aircraft for our armed forces, I think we do. India is currently building, testing and operating three aircraft carriers, all of which have ski-ramps instead of catapults. Heavier AW&E aircraft cannot operate from such carriers and we have so far stuck to helos which are quite bad when compared to their fixed wing counterparts. V-22 can operate out of an aircraft carrier as well as a Landing Dock. When operated out of an ALD, it boosts our amphibious strike capability. The proposed Boeing V-22D which is currently under development, can be an excellent replacement for our AC based AW&C helos.

I seriously do not think that our NSG commandos need this aircraft for lift, they already have the C-130 which is a far better craft, and the drop-off in counter-insurgency operations are better managed by a helo. A V-22 may not be able to properly function in our cramped cities. However that remains to be tested. The aircraft have a good platform in our northern boundaries performing in high-altitude, long distance stops as that is a region where our helos falter.

 

[noob101]

V-22's are faster, can fly higher, and can deploy paratroopers when compared to the Chinook, but the Chinook's better suited to heavy lifting needs. It does have enormous technical snags and recently the crash rate has been quite appalling but if we take a closer look we'll see that the this is the first time tilt-rotor technology has been applied to mass production, so some issues are bound to emerge. However, Boeing is in the process of sorting it out and constantly the US fleet is being upgraded.

Coming to the question whether we really need the aircraft for our armed forces, I think we do. India is currently building, testing and operating three aircraft carriers, all of which have ski-ramps instead of catapults. Heavier AW&E aircraft cannot operate from such carriers and we have so far stuck to helos which are quite bad when compared to their fixed wing counterparts. V-22 can operate out of an aircraft carrier as well as a Landing Dock. When operated out of an ALD, it boosts our amphibious strike capability. The proposed Boeing V-22D which is currently under development, can be an excellent replacement for our AC based AW&C helos.

I seriously do not think that our NSG commandos need this aircraft for lift, they already have the C-130 which is a far better craft, and the drop-off in counter-insurgency operations are better managed by a helo. A V-22 may not be able to properly function in our cramped cities. However that remains to be tested. The aircraft have a good platform in our northern boundaries performing in high-altitude, long distance stops as that is a region where our helos falter.

We should really find a replacement for the AEW helos, a fewer number of planes could do a much better job plus the number of helos for ASW can be increased. unless someone finds a way to slap on a radar dome on top of a LCA and be able to operate from a ski jump V22 is the only option.... although that seems a far way off, don't know if AWCS version will be offered by uncle sam though
It would be a good option for the IN to operate 4-6 V22 form each of the 4 LPD/LPH that they are about the order, US marines operate them form their LPD so it dose have a service record
I don't know of its utility for the Army and Air Force, I think that all the requirements can be covered by the Mi 26 and the C130

 

[ace009]

I am not sure if the V-22 can carry a radar on top for AEW functions. On vertical flight mode the twin rotors cover most of the top surface and there is serious space constraint for having a big-ass radar on top.

 

[Bhon]

I am not sure if the V-22 can carry a radar on top for AEW functions. On vertical flight mode the twin rotors cover most of the top surface and there is serious space constraint for having a big-ass radar on top.

Boeing released a mock-up design of the proposed V-22 AWE aircraft. The domes like a triangular slab shape that fits between the twin blades. Google it up. However it still being tested.

 

[Blackwater]

Sir,
cant indian defence industries produce a tilt rotor aircraft aircraft like v-22 osprey ????

We don't have country like pak who smuggle to country like china to copy

 

[ace009]

I think we should merge this thread with the more recent one where IAF has asked for information about the V-22 ...

@ Mods ...

 

[Neil]

V-22 Is The Safest, Most Survivable Rotorcraft The Marines Have

Here's a surprise: the V-22 Osprey has turned into the safest, most survivable rotorcraft the U.S. Marine Corps operates. The Osprey had its first fatal accident in ten years last April during a combat mission in Afghanistan, when an Air Force version hit the ground at high speed. But because of safety features built into the airframe, 16 of the 20 personnel on board survived. If you think that's still one crash too many, then you better not look at the safety records of other rotorcraft in theater, because many of them are not faring as well. After 14 operational deployments and 100,000 flight hours, the Osprey is beginning to look like a real life-saver.

That's not the way the V-22 began its history. Conceived as a versatile aircraft that could combine the land-anywhere agility of a helicopter with the speed (280 miles per hour) and range (375 miles) of a fixed-wing aircraft, the Osprey suffered two serious accidents during its development. Those accidents delayed fielding and left a lasting impression on critics, who to this day allege it is a flawed aircraft. The Marine Corps vigorously disagrees, arguing it is a safer and more flexible way of getting troops from ship to shore than any other means available. A mounting body of evidence from operational deployments indicates the Marines are right. Not only is the V-22 less likely to be hit by ground fire than conventional helicopters (because it flies faster and higher), but when it is hit it suffers less damage and if it crashes occupants are more likely to survive.

Over the last ten years, the V-22 mishap rate has been about half the average for the entire Marine aircraft fleet, and it is currently the lowest of any rotorcraft in that fleet. These averages are adjusted to reflect time actually flown, so it really is a surprisingly safe aircraft, considering it only recently entered service. New airframes usually have higher mishap rates than aircraft that have been operated for many years. Of course, none of this would matter if the Osprey couldn't do much, but in fact it is living up to its potential for versatility, conducting everything from night raids and medical evacuations in Afghanistan to logistical support and humanitarian assistance in Haiti. It is also proving to be the most flexible airframe employed by Air Force special operators, who use it for an array of harrowing combat and rescue missions. Readiness rates for the Marine version are around 70 percent, which is quite respectable for a new and novel airframe.

But much of this progress has not been noticed by the political system, which finds it hard to forget the testing accidents that occurred many years ago. In fact, three different amendments are currently pending in Congress to delete some or all of the funding for the Osprey, and the president's bipartisan deficit panel suggested ending production early because the program had a "troubled history" of developmental problems. That's kind of like saying that Mr. Obama does not deserve reelection because he had a tough childhood, without looking at what he's done lately. With only $15 billion left to be spent in a $70 billion acquisition program, it makes no sense to cut the V-22 program just as the Marines are about to reach their inventory goal. Costs are down, readiness is up, and the Osprey has become the safest way of moving troops around combat zones. This is one program that deserves to stay on track.



Lexington Institute

 

[asianobserve]

Ospreys to Israel in Major Arms Deal
Defensetech
April 19, 2013

Israel will receive the MV-22 Osprey in the first foreign sale of the tilt-rotor aircraft as part of major arms deals with Mideast allies to guard against the threat from Iran, senior Defense Department officials said Friday.

The Ospreys were the "most significant" assets in the total arms package and were "for the first time being made available for Israel to purchase," a senior DOD official said in a background briefing on Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel's upcoming Mideast trip.

Israel has not yet decided on how many of the troop-carry Ospreys, made by Bell Boeing of Fort Worth, Texas, will be purchased, DOD officials said. Bell and the Marine Corps have been negotiating with the United Arab Emirates for more than a year on Osprey sales, and the discussions were continuing, the officials said.

The civil war in Syria will be at the top of the agenda for Hagel's trip beginning this weekend to Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the UAE, the officials said.

One defense official said the arms package "doesn't signal a change in policy toward Iran," but a second official added that "the common threat in the region is clear."

In addition to the Ospreys, Israel will also be getting advanced radars for Israeli fighter and attack aircraft, and anti-radiation missiles for targeting enemy radar sites.
The UAE will be getting 25 advanced F-16 fighters made by Lockheed Martin for $4.25 billion, and Saudi Arabia and the UAE have also agreed to buy additional standoff missiles and smart bomb s, the DOD officials said.

The total value of the sales to Israel and the regional allies will be about $10 billion. A Defense Department official called it "the most complex and carefully orchestrated arms packages in history."

The sales grew out of President Obama's directive to former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta last year to look for ways to boost Israeli's qualitative military edge in the region, the DOD officials said.

"We had been looking for ways to increase the capabilities of Israel in a significant way," a Defense Department official said.

By boosting Israel's capabilities, the sales to the Arab allies also became more politically viable in Congress, the officials said. Israel currently receives $3.1 billion in U.S. military aid, and another $300 million for missile defense, the Defense Department officials said.

The additional sales "will raise Israel's military superiority to a level that it has never been rasied to before," a defense official said.

The Ospreys, which provide longer-range and faster troop carrying and supply missions than conventional helicopters, have a checkered history.

More than 30 Marines were killed in testing, and the aircraft survived numerous attempts to cancel the program over cost overruns and systems' failures.

The Marines have stressed that the Ospreys proved their worth in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the aircraft earlier this year passed another hurdle when they were deployed for the first time to Japan over the protests of Okinawa residents.

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/04/19/ospreys-to-israel-in-major-arms-deal/#ixzz2R9OhqUHW
Defense.org