Should India Buy the Mistral Which Russia Couldn't?

[Scalieback]

Okay (30 characters)......

You don't get sarcasm do you @blueblood ?

More 'willy waving' for Indian kit Less debate by teenagers, more adults talking please

 

[blueblood]

You don't get sarcasm do you @blueblood ?

More 'willy waving' for Indian kit Less debate by teenagers, more adults talking please

Apparently you don't get when a person is trying to end the conversation and move on.

 

[jouni]

which old missiles? SAM's or S2S

Umkhonto and RBS.............................

 

[jouni]

As pointed out before we have already made a commitment to buy only locally designed and made ships now.

however that said the Hamina class brings some great capabilities to the Table in the form of the Umkhonto SAM. This should make it one of the few missile boast in the world with a proper SAM capability i think, our boats only have MANPADS in that realm, not to mention the supremely capable RBS 15 that the Hamina carries is much superior to the Styx on our boats. To do that in a compact 250Tr package really makes me doff my hat to the Finnish designers who designed these boats in respect.

maybe our designers could use it as an inspiration , a muse even!

Yes, your designers should get the best practices from all over the world and then adapt them to Indian needs. Hamina is quite a "pocket battleship"

 

[salute]

Good for us to think and act ... it fits our regional and global profile and use.

Russia will be able to get money also - And France able to get a good deal.

maybe you are thinking more about france and russia than india,
and thinking about india emerge as their savoir and then they gonna thank to india,
but yeah you have a point india need lpds.

 

[sachin458377]

No .... we cant afford to make Russia angry.

 

[Compersion]

maybe you are thinking more about france and russia than india,
and thinking about india emerge as their savoir and then they gonna thank to india,
but yeah you have a point india need lpds.

I would rather that India be their savior and not Saudi, Egypt, PRC etc etc ... It makes strategic sense and we need to start thinking not large indian ocean navy but large regional and global navy. If we get these juicy boats we ought to build more in house still. We ought to think big. Also Russia sentiments and French sentiments needs to be managed and frankly India can without pissing off either unlike the other customers. This reminds me off the phalcon deal a little bit. Extended sensitivities that include USA. I was reading that France and Israel might have a history and that is only places where I would like to see a analysis is Israel fine with us doing big with France. That is where we ought to touch base. I don't need to explain importance of india to Israel and Israel to india.

India also is known to push a hard bargain and its standard that I am saying we will not pay over the odds. But no harm paying fairly.

 

[rohit.gr77]

No .... we cant afford to make Russia angry.

Buying the Mistrals won't make Russia angry. The chapter is closed for them according to their own source. They already have plans for building their of LHD. The Russians in current scenario need to be shown that we are not totally dependent on them for our requirements. This is necessary because they are doing deals with China as well as Pakistan.

 

[bengalraider]

My 0.02 on the survivability of the Mistral.
No ship on earth is completely Ashm proof, be it a Iowa class battleship or a DOKDO class LHD. A large Ashm hitting any ship on earth has the potential to sink or cripple said vessel. The mistral is no exception to that, the only way a ship is truly protected from Ashm attacks is if it's operating Navy has the capability to truly gain control of the undersea , surface and air theaters of Battle.
The Mistral is not designed to be in the heat of battle in hostile territory, it's a LPD/LHD and as such it's role is to launch the amphibious forces it's carrying(in an area where the airspace/undersea/surface is already sanitized), protect them using the helicopters it carries and then once a viable bridgehead is established steam away to get another batch of troops.

 

[salute]

I would rather that India be their savior and not Saudi, Egypt, PRC etc etc ... It makes strategic sense and we need to start thinking not large indian ocean navy but large regional and global navy. If we get these juicy boats we ought to build more in house still. We ought to think big. Also Russia sentiments and French sentiments needs to be managed and frankly India can without pissing off either unlike the other customers. This reminds me off the phalcon deal a little bit. Extended sensitivities that include USA. I was reading that France and Israel might have a history and that is only places where I would like to see a analysis is Israel fine with us doing big with France. That is where we ought to touch base. I don't need to explain importance of india to Israel and Israel to india.

India also is known to push a hard bargain and its standard that I am saying we will not pay over the odds. But no harm paying fairly.

if egypt or saudi or prc or any others wants to buy mistral they can order it whenever they want beside these 2 ships anyway,they dont required this russian mistral saga to buy ships from french,
french are open for business,

doubtful that egypt could buy mistral would it be economically feasible to them,
or is mistral gonna fit into saudi or egypt navy plans or not is doubtful too,
do they want too develop expeditionary force or do they have any need for such force or such ships???
is it economically possible for them to keep maintaining such ship ???

same with saudi but saudis are rich and they are largest arms buyer and fancy toy collectors too,but whether saudis gonna buy it or not that decisions is upto their american masters,

prc gonna buy that ???,its western tech question is,
is america gonna allow french to do that ???

they gonna try it to sell to india or somewhere in south america maybe,
isnt india thinking about bigger ship juan carlos.

 

[Zebra]

No .... we cant afford to make Russia angry.

Yeah, bcz we are Russian slaves. Isn't it....?

 

[bengalraider]

Both ladies together, tell me wouldn't these girls look good parked together at karwar?
Anyhoo read the report below,seems the Russians and the French want us to have the boats. Expect NAMO to do the honours when he visits Moscow later this year.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defenc...pter-carriers-built-for-russia-experts_382177

 

[pmaitra]

Both ladies together, tell me wouldn't these girls look good parked together at karwar?
Anyhoo read the report below,seems the Russians and the French want us to have the boats. Expect NAMO to do the honours when he visits Moscow later this year.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defenc...pter-carriers-built-for-russia-experts_382177

The French have never been comfortable with Frau Bundeskanzlerin Merkel calling all the shots, and appear to have kept the backdoor channels with the Russians open and cordial. They even made sure their sympathies for Greece remained not-so-hidden.

The Mistrals would look great parked at Karwar, but personally, I think we can do without a lot of things that will look good but will serve no tangible purpose. Of course, the price is a matter to consider, and there might as well be an attractive price.

There have been speculation that while the US cannot sell India certain high tech weapons due to lack of Congressional approval, they have managed to make such technologies available to India via Israeli branded products. Perhaps India might become a conduit for an indirect transfer of the Mistral to Russia, or at least the tech?

 

[jouni]

Finnish Navy has been happy with our Mistrals which we bought from France. I think India would be also.

 

[Yumdoot]

Seems like the hull steel that IN uses is different and thicker than that used by Russian Navy. Besides the IN has stated that they do not need podded propulsion. Doubt, if IN will take these Mistrals. Too costly - like all things French.

 

[Immanuel]

Nah, the Mistral makes no sense for the IN, its small, IN has big plans. Juan Carlos meets the spes.

 

[jackprince]

http://sputniknews.com/military/20150914/1026968022.html

A French official cited by defense news website Defense One said that Moscow has signaled that Russian telecommunications and missile control systems installed onboard the Mistral helicopter carriers may not be removed, if Egypt or India were to purchase the warships.

France Pays Russia €950 Million for Cancelled Mistral Deal
The unnamed official indicated that Russian officials had "let it be known" that Moscow "could accept India and Egypt receiving the equipment" if either of the two countries were to buy the ships, originally ordered by Russia in 2011 in a botched deal which has since forced Paris to refund Russia €949.7 million over the contract's cancellation.


The official also suggested that if the equipment were to remain onboard the ships, it would help Russia to keep close links with Cairo.

Some €56.7 million of the refund amount had gone toward covering the Russian-made equipment on board the ship, as well as training. Earlier this month, Russian officials announced that Moscow and Paris would hold talks on September 21 over the dismantling of Russian equipment aboard the warships, noting that the Russian-made components would be dismantled and returned to Russia by late November.

France is now in the process of attempting to sell the carriers to a new buyer, with Egypt said to be the leading prospective buyer. Last week, French officials announced that a deal with Egypt "is among the serious options" for the ships' sale. As the Wall Street Journal had explained late last month, if Cairo were to purchase the ships, it would give Egypt's navy "some of the most advanced pieces of equipment in the arsenal of a Middle Eastern military," with the ships capable of transporting hundreds of troops, 16 helicopters, tanks and armored vehicles, and featuring a command-and-control system capable of directing these forces in battle.

Special Offer: Russia Could Sell Mistral-Designed Helicopters to Potential Mistral Buyer
Along with Egypt and India, several other countries, including Brazil, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Vietnam and the United Arab Emirates had signaled their interest in the amphibious assault ships. According to unconfirmed reports, the buyer would also be offered to purchase the Russian-made Kamov Ka-52K helicopters tailored specifically for the ships.


Egypt has recently signed an agreement with France to purchase $5.2 billion in military equipment, including a frigate, four Gowind corvettes and 24 Rafale fighter jets, as well as arms from missile manufacturers MBDA and Sagem. Cairo is in talks with French officials on the purchase of two more corvettes. India, meanwhile, is in talks with Paris on the purchase of 36 Rafales.



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Quite canny of Russia!!!! They would effectively sell their installed hardware via French!!!!

 

[Hari Sud]

French are not good salesmen in military hardware mattes (Rafale price is an example). But if they want to sell it at throw away prices and guaranteed price for refurbishing then it may be possible to buy one of the Mistral. But do not get into Aircraft Carrier Vikramaditya type of purchase and refurbishing. A lesson has been learnt the hard way.

 

[pmaitra]

Thread closed. Continue discussion in main thread:
France, Russia, and the Mistral Saga