Should India buy Swedish Submarines?

[no smoking]

I am afraid to discuss you first have to know , but to know you need access to various news both positive and negative development but where the access is limited or denied it does not become a citizens fault of not knowing , believe me i have lived such times too , and i understand the way its subject to when information is cooked up and made to believe.

Ok, I would love to discuss about these "information".
Please tell what type of indian submarine has been operation was built by india? Yes, india is building its nuclear submarine, but far from completion.
The thing is that after 60 years, india is still relying on foreign producers for its major weapons.
The root of this problem is that india doesn't like "crap" produced by its own industry. But it is quite natural to see any industry to produce "crap" at the beginning of its develpment. You have to be patient and tolerant to your own manufacturer.

 

[Zebra]

German Group Pulls Out of Greek Submarine Order: Minister
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 16 May 2011 13:25 ATHENS - German shipbuilding group HDW has pulled out of a subcontractor deal to build two submarines at an Arab-owned shipyard in Greece, the Greek defense minister said on May 16.

HDW bowed out due to "major disagreements" on broader project cooperation in Germany between its parent company ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and Abu Dhabi Mar, the new owners of Hellenic Shipyards near Athens that were to handle the submarine contract, Defence Minister Evangelos Venizelos said.

The dispute concerns the building of two new 214-class submarines and the overhaul of an older 209-class submarine, Venizelos said in a statement.

It does not affect the delivery of three more 214-class submarines that have been completed at Hellenic Shipyards, the country's main shipbuilding facility, the minister said.

The Greek submarine order has been a long-running affair spanning over a decade and dogged by technical disputes, litigation and bribery probes.

Athens in September oversaw a deal to transfer a majority stake at Hellenic Shipyards, the country's main shipbuilding facility, from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems to Abu Dhabi Mar in order to protect thousands of jobs.

The deal had been delayed by Athens' initial refusal to accept delivery of one of the new submarines, Papanikolis, after Greek Navy inspectors declared it defective during test runs off the port of Kiel.

A former Greek defense minister is currently under parliamentary investigation in Athens over bribes allegedly paid to Greek officials in relation to submarine orders signed in 2002.

The Greek government, struggling with a debt crisis and facing a huge effort to restructure its ailing economy, has admitted it can ill-afford new arms purchases.

But in defense of the shipyard deal, Venizelos at the time said the delays "had placed in danger the country's largest shipbuilding industry, thousands of jobs, the entire Greek Navy submarine program and over two billion euros already paid by the Greek state without tangible result."

 

[joe81]

Well if we have acquired the technology (through ToT) from the French, lets build more Scorpène class submarine rather than going in for the Swedish submarine.

 

[Zebra]

Well if we have acquired the technology (through ToT) from the French, lets build more Scorpène class submarine rather than going in for the Swedish submarine.

Some points which makes Swedish submarines one of the best .....
1) Stirling engine AIP system ,
Which extends underwater endurance from few days to about few weeks .
Engine is near silent and can use the surrounding sea water as a heat sink to increase efficiency .
2) Extreme shock resistance .
3) A high degree of automation allowing for a small crew of 25 , a single operator to steer the submarine in depth and course.
4) Can take sharp turns and ability to operate very close to the seabed .
5) All shipboard machinery are isolated and mounted on rubber dampeners to reduce vibrations and noises .

 

[Zebra]

US Navy Needs Diesel Submarines .

By Gary Schmitt
Published: 12 June 2011
The U.S. Navy faces a fundamental dilemma: It needs more submarines, but the overall defense budget required to build those submarines is headed south. How should it square this circle?

The answer is that the Navy should procure a fleet of diesel-powered subs. Not only are diesels cheaper than nuclear-powered subs, but they have the advantage of being better platforms for many of the tasks the Navy faces today.

The demand for attack submarines is both quantitative and qualitative. Over the past two decades, for example, China has added more than 40 new submarines. Although they are not equivalent to ours, they still need to be tracked - and that takes numbers. Meanwhile, the list of actual and potential submarine missions, including close-in intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, special operations, and blockade and mining, continues to grow.

These growing operational demands are coupled with the exigencies of new undersea requirements. In addition to the deep-sea dives and prolonged blue-water missions that became the staple of submarine operations during the Cold War, there are a number of scenarios today that are focused on the littoral areas, the green water within 100 miles of land, be they in the strait of Hormuz or Malacca, off the shores of Taiwan or in the South China Sea.

It is these missions that often favor diesel submarines. Diesel subs are smaller, stealthier and more maneuverable in tight spaces than nuclear submarines. For example, unlike a nuclear submarine's power plant, a diesel's primary engine can be turned off when submerged, reducing noise emission. Indeed, unlike a nuclear-powered submarine, a modern diesel can hide on the ocean's floor, deadly silent, while monitoring whatever passes over and around it.

And with the advent of Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology, today's diesel subs can remain submerged for weeks at a time. When deployed to bases in the Far East or Middle East, the range and reach of today's AIP-equipped diesels would put them well within striking distance of critical choke points.

And, using the recent sale price of Germany's Type 212 subs to Turkey as a point of reference - approximately $500 million versus the $2 billion for a Virginia-class nuclear attack submarine - the Navy would be able to ramp up submarine production without breaking the bank.

The U.S. Navy is not ignorant of the advantages of diesel subs. Time and again, American naval crews have struggled to detect their diesel-electric "foes" at sea. Over the past two years, for example, Peruvian and Chilean diesels have made life extremely tough for the U.S. in naval exercises.

Nor is this new; in a joint training exercise in 2005, a Swedish AIP-outfitted Götland-class sub scored a "strike" on the carrier Ronald Reagan. And, most famously, in 2006 a Chinese Song-class diesel submarine surfaced undetected within striking distance of the carrier Kitty Hawk off Japanese waters.

Building diesel submarines in the U.S. has other advantages as well. There is a growing global market for diesel submarines among allies and partners and it's work U.S. shipyards certainly could use. In addition, having diesels in the fleet provides an in-house training tool for anti-submarine warfare efforts against other nations' diesels. It is useful to remember that Russia and China have successfully incorporated both diesel and nuclear submarines into their force structure.

Of course, the U.S. Navy has been dead set against building anything but nuclear-powered submarines for a half-century now. Indeed, one reason the offer of a sale of eight diesel submarines to Taiwan made by President George W. Bush in 2001 has never gotten off the ground is because the Navy brass has feared that any diesel construction in the U.S., even if strictly for foreign sales, might open the door to Congress asking, "Why not for our own fleet?"

In addition to the decades-old, Rickover-induced inertia, the new excuse for not building diesels is the claim that the missions that diesels might usefully perform can be handled with unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs). Why build a new class of submarine when UUVs attached to nuclear submarines can carry out those tasks?

But while UUVs are a promising idea, "promising" is the key here. Significant questions pertaining to speed, payload, sensors and communication remain.

In what was billed as Defense Secretary Robert Gates' valedictory policy speech at the American Enterprise Institute on May 24, he noted that "more and more money is consumed by fewer and fewer platforms," and that, in the future, the department's "guiding principle "¦ must be to develop technology and field weapons that are affordable, versatile, and relevant to the most likely and lethal threats in the decades to come."

That's a spot-on assessment as to why the U.S. Navy needs diesel submarines.

Gary Schmitt, director of the advanced strategic studies program at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), and Richard Cleary, research assistant for the AEI's Program on Advanced Strategic Studies

http://http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=6792065&c=FEA&s=COM

 

[sob]

I must admit that I did not know about the Swedes were making Subs. They look to be very good on paper. MOD has to make a technical evaluation for that.

However due to the Bofors ghost hanging around I do not see any procurement from Sweden in the near future. We have seen the recent case of Artillery Guns also where all efforts are being made to avoid the best gun in the business.

 

[Zebra]

I must admit that I did not know about the Swedes were making Subs. They look to be very good on paper. MOD has to make a technical evaluation for that.

However due to the Bofors ghost hanging around I do not see any procurement from Sweden in the near future. We have seen the recent case of Artillery Guns also where all efforts are being made to avoid the best gun in the business.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_submarines_of_the_Royal_Swedish_Navy

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

If you have an independent defence industry, then after 60 years effort, we should discuss about the quality of "made in india" instead of swedish, or British.

well made in china products are even rejected by african,south american countries.indegeneous defence industry doesn't mean copy pasting and reverse engineering other countries products which the chinese have mastered even better than kung-fu over centuries.

 

[Zebra]

A World-leading Submarine Programme
Kockums designs, builds and maintains advanced non-nuclear sub-marines for operations in both extreme littoral zones and blue waters. Leading technology built into these vessel include our innovative Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system based on the Stirling engine.

Stirling AIP eliminates surfacing for regular battery charging, and our submarines can therefore remain under water for weeks rather than days. In combination with superior stealth technology, extreme shock resistance and a powerful combat system, the Stirling AIP system makes Kockums product an exceptional non-nuclear submarine.

A related Kockums-developed submarine rescue system is the only system in the world capable of rescuing the entire submarine crew of 35 persons in one single lift.


Kockums concept - a world leading submarine programme.
At one with the ocean
A submarine has three key attributes: the ability to remain hidden over an extended period, operational flexibility in a range of different scena-rios, and full integration with other units on land, at sea and in the air. Submarines from Kockums meet all three criteria.

At the leading edge of submarine technology, our range of products is the result of advanced in-house competence in the following fields:

Signatures and stealth
Structure analysis
System integration
Energy systems
Modulation and simulation
Composite materials

Submarines do information gathering.
Conventional missions
First and foremost, our sub-marines are designed, tested and deployed for conventional naval missions, such as home-land defence; gathering, pro-cessing and presentation of intelligence; surveillance and reconnaissance data; attack; anti-submarine warfare; mine-laying and special operations.

The submarine's great flexibility enables it to fulfil many roles, partici-pating directly (sub-to-sub, sub-tosurface, sub-to-land and sub-to-air) and indirectly as, e.g. fire support.

New scenarios in a changing world
The nations of the world confront new types of security threat: inter-national terrorism, smuggling and illegal immigration. In response to these new threats, many countries are reorienting their military capa-bilities, from invasion-defence to rapid-reaction forces, while also seeking closer integration with civilian agencies.

Missions are changing too. Increasingly, submarines are becoming an integrated and natural link in an extended network of communications and rapid response units. This type of netcentric integration is gaining increasing relevance. Kockums submarines are geared as a tool in crisis-response and peace keeping operations and peace enforcement operations as part of the United Nations (UN), European Community (EC) and North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) reaction forces and other ad hoc forces.

Kockums - a century of submarine know-how
Kockums received its first submarine contract in 1912 and the two 252-tonne "Svärdfisken" and "Tumlaren" submersibles launched in 1914 marked the start of the company's highly successful develop-ment of several generations of conventional submarines. Since then, Kockums has been intimately involved in transforming submarine fleets into efficient and powerful forces. Kockums has designed many submarines and, since the end of the World War II, has developed a greater number of submarine classes than any other shipyard in the world.

Kockums - a reliable and experienced partner
Having designed and built the world's most advanced conventional submarines in close collaboration with our customers, Kockums can claim to be an unusually experienced partner. Large or small, we ensure that each project satisfies the same high demands in terms of quality, commitment and individual responsibility. Which is why our customers keep coming back. And coming back. And coming back"¦
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Kockums has received a design contract for Swedish Navy's Next Generation Submarine.

Kockums A26


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Republic of Singapore Navy submarine RSS Swordsman was launched with pomp and circumstance at Kockums on October 20, 2010.


Swedish submarines 100 years

Year 2004 saw the centennial celebration of the submarine arm of the Royal Swedish Navy.



A retrospective collage over Swedish submarines the past 100 years, can be downloaded in pdf-format here.

Submarines 100 years

(available in Swedish only)


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Historical background



Kockums history as a renowned naval shipbuilder dates back to more than 300 years ago. We have developed a greater num-ber of submarine classes than any other shipyard in the world.

Contact information Kockums AB
SE-205 55 Malmö, Sweden
Tel +46 40 34 80 00
Fax +46 40 97 32 81

SE-371 82 Karlskrona, Sweden
Tel +46 455 68 30 00
Fax +46 455 179 34

Box 63, SE-149 21 Nynäshamn, Sweden
Tel +46 455 68 30 00
Fax +46 10 823 13 57

[email protected]

http://http://www.kockums.se/en/products-services/submarines/

*****
Some basic info about those members who do not know about Swedish submarines and the dockyard who make them .

 

[Zebra]

enjoy .

 

[Zebra]

100 years under the sea

29 August 2014

HMS Svärdfisken put out to sea 30 August 1914

On 30 August 1914, the first Kockums-made submarine was put to sea. HMS Svärdfisken (Swordfish) left the dock and was ready to be delivered to the Swedish Armed Forces.

History

In the early 1900s, the Swedish fleet invested in their first submarines, purchasing the submarine Hvalen from an Italian shipyard in 1909. In 1910, Kockums Mechanical Workshop in Malmö announced it had the ability to build submarines of the same type as Hvalen for the Swedish Navy.

Barely two years later, the Swedish Maritime Administration contacted Kockums and announced that they wanted to sign a contract for two submarines. Production began and in 1913 His Majesty King decided that the two submarines should be named Svärdfisken and Tumlaren.
Svärdfisken

HMS Svärdfisken and its sister boat, HMS Tumlaren were built at Kockums shipyard in Malmö. They were typical 'dive boats', i.e. surface vessels that could dive when needed. These submarines were based on Italian designs and were of the then very modern Fiat Laurenti type with well-structured, long narrow pressure hulls. Svärdfisken and Tumlaren were considered good submarines because of their seaworthiness and high speed. They also had a modern communication system using wireless telegraphy.

The submarines at this time lacked a mast snorkel and because of its design, small battery and poor air purification, Svärdfisken could only be subsurface for a few hours at a time. Conditions on board must also have left something to be desired. One can imagine a few benches in the bow and stern, but for a crew of 21, it must have been crowded. Neither bathrooms nor a galley (kitchen) are visible in the drawings.

HMS Svärdfisken was at this time a very popular submarine and was in service until in 1936.

Development

Since the production of Svärdfisken, Kockums has produced 73 submarines, the latest is the Gotland-class. Through the years, major developments in submarine production have been made.

One groundbreaking development in submarine history was after World War II when the snorkel mast was introduced which meant submarines no longer had to fully surface to recharge their batteries, but could instead lie just below the surface with the snorkel mast sticking supplying the diesel engine with air.

Another step forward in the development of the submarines came in 1967-68 with the Sjörormen-class (Seaworm-class). These submarines were the first with hulls optimised for being under the water's surface, enabling them to reach higher speeds subsurface then at surface. Thanks to their streamlined hulls they were much quieter and easier to manoeuvre compared with previous submarine classes.

The most recent groundbreaking development is the Stirling motor, which neither requires a snorkel mast nor the starting of noisy diesel engines to recharge a submarines batteries. Stirling engines are powered by ordinary diesel and pure oxygen in liquid form which are stored on board the submarine.

 

[Zebra]

Hitler reacts to Swedish submarine news | Meemsy.com

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

What is the cost of the sub?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

More info


http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/naval-warfare/8696-submarine-type-a26.html

 

[Zebra]

Kockums A26

Published on Jun 30, 2015, by Saab AB