Should India buy Swedish Submarines?

Zebra

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India - request for Kockums engine for HDW subs.

Not the Gotland subs but only engine-- which India want for it's old HDW GERMAN subs .

Kockums shipyard make Gotland subs in Sweden . Kockums owned by HDW.
Gotland got Stirling engine air independent .

India want the same engine fitted in all its old HDW subs.
This is one requestHDW of of India for the old HDW upgrade with Germany .
 
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Rahul92

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Leave those German's & French we can actually buy some Royal Navy's ASTUTE class attack sub's
The Astute-class is the latest class of nuclear-powered fast attack submarines (SSN) in service with the Royal Navy. The class sets a new standard for the Royal Navy in terms of weapons load, communication facilities and stealth. The boats are being constructed by BAE Systems Submarine Solutions at Barrow-in-Furness.

Seven boats will be constructed. The first of class, Astute, was launched in 2007 and commissioned in 2010, and the second, Ambush, was launched on 6 January 2011



Builders: BAE Systems Submarine Solutions
Operators:
Royal Navy Jack
Royal Navy
Preceded by: Trafalgar class
In commission: 27 August 2010 —
Building: 5: Ambush, Artful, Audacious, Agamemnon, Anson
Planned: 1: Ajax
Completed: 1: Astute
General characteristics
Displacement: 7,400 tonnes submerged
Length: 97 m (323 ft)
Beam: 11.3 m (37 ft)
Draught: 10 m (33 ft)
Propulsion: Rolls-Royce PWR 2 reactor, MTU 600 kilowatt diesel generators
Speed: 29+ knots (56+ km/h) submerged
Range: Only limited by food and maintenance requirements.
Test depth: Over 300 m
Complement: 98 officers and men (capacity for 109)
Sensors and
processing systems:

* Thales Sonar 2076
* Atlas DESO 25 echosounder
* 2 x Thales CM010 optronic masts
* Raytheon Successor IFF

Armament:

6 x 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes

* A combination of up to 38:
o Spearfish torpedoes
o Tomahawk Block IV cruise missiles

Submarines of the class

Name Boat Pennant number Status Laid down Launched Date of commission
Astute 1 S119 On sea trials 31 January 2001 8 June 2007 27 August 2011
Ambush 2 S120 Fitting out 22 October 2003 6 January 2011[2] Expected 2012
Artful 3 S121 Under construction 11 March 2005
Audacious 4 S122 Under construction 24 March 2009
Agamemnon 5 S123 Initial build phase underway
Anson 6 S124 On order; long-lead items ordered
Ajax 7 S125 Planned (confirmed Oct 2010)
 

Yusuf

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Very funny. What makes you think some one will sell india a nuke powered sub?
 

Rahul92

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Very funny. What makes you think some one will sell india a nuke powered sub?
Bro i think they are eager for making some money this is the right time we need tech & they need money
 

Yusuf

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No they will not sell anything under the sun even if they need money. Nothing to do with nuke weapons will be forth coming.
 

Rahul92

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No they will not sell anything under the sun even if they need money. Nothing to do with nuke weapons will be forth coming.
Many Indian org's like ISRO,DRDO,BDL etc have been removed from Blacklist & they're 4th most favourable country to India & i think some good talks can do it
as we require only 3 & cost of 3 astute's are around £ 2bn
 

Yusuf

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Many Indian org's like ISRO,DRDO,BDL etc have been removed from Blacklist & they're 4th most favourable country to India & i think some good talks can do it
as we require only 3 & cost of 3 astute's are around £ 2bn
Removal from entities list entitles india to dual use equipments so far banned to India. Not nuclear weapons or boomers.
 

Rahul92

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Removal from entities list entitles india to dual use equipments so far banned to India. Not nuclear weapons or boomers.
I just can't understand if we can urge for security council seat why can't we urge to remove our country name from Blacklist
 

shuvo@y2k10

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the main problem is if the british submarine was offered to us before the launching of arihant then indian navy might have accepted it as is the akula whose contracts were sign in 2004.but since navy is a staunch supporter of indegeneous programmes i don't think it will go for british ssn or even british aircraft carrier.
 

Yusuf

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I just can't understand if we can urge for security council seat why can't we urge to remove our country name from Blacklist
India got off the list. DRDO and ISRO can now access dual use products but that doesn't mean we will get nuke weapons including boomers. International obligation. The west is paranoid about all this except when they have to wink when someone blackmails. Still, no we will not get anything like that from the west.
Even with the Akula, we are getting it on lease not bought it. Well leasing is a twisting of international obligation, but still india has to return the boat.
 

bluecloud

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A large country with 1.2 billion people should have an independent defense industry
 

A.V.

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A large country with 1.2 billion people should have an independent defense industry
And what makes you think a large country with 1.2 billion people dont have an independent defence industry ?
 

no smoking

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And what makes you think a large country with 1.2 billion people dont have an independent defence industry ?
If you have an independent defence industry, then after 60 years effort, we should discuss about the quality of "made in india" instead of swedish, or British.
 

Singh

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If you have an independent defence industry, then after 60 years effort, we should discuss about the quality of "made in india" instead of swedish, or British.
Why is that ? :confused:
 

Zebra

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Kockums to Design Sweden's Next-Generation Submarine

The A26-class submarines will focus on littoral operations.
A26 Submarine Programme to Enter Next Phase after Government Approval

10:01 GMT, February 26, 2010 defpro.com | Following last week's approval by the Swedish government to initiate the design phase, the country's Defence Materiel Administration (Försvarets materielverk, FMV) awarded Kockums AB, a 100% subsidiary of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, with a contract for the overall design of Sweden's next-generation submarine. This decision is seen as confirming the government's intention to further develop Sweden's submarine capability, after the programme was delayed and failed to be carried out as a multi-national Scandinavian procurement programme, as was originally planned. Initiation of the design phase for the submarines, designated A26, was previously approved by the Swedish government in December 2007.

Several years ago, Sweden was involved in talks with Norway and Denmark, within the framework of the so-called "Viking" project, to build a tri-national next-generation submarine. However, after Denmark decided not to operate any submarines in the future, Norway also left the project and it continued on as a national programme. Nevertheless, Norway has shown continued interest and is examining a possible future purchase of the submarine. For the time being, this remains an exclusively Swedish programme, which so far is intended to provide two submarines for the Swedish Navy, as confirmed by Ulf Lindström, Press Relations Manager at the FMV. However, the final number of next-generation submarines to be procured has not yet been decided by the government.

Commenting the order for the overall design, Kockums CEO Ola Alfredsson said: "This is an important first step, not only for Kockums, but for the Swedish Armed Forces as a whole. We shall now be able to maintain our position at the cutting edge of submarine technology, which is vital in light of the current threat scenarios. HMS Gotland demonstrated what she is capable of during two years [June 2005 - July 2007] of joint exercises in the waters off the USA. This next-generation submarine marks a further refinement of technology."

According to Kockums, the naval capabilities of the new generation will focus on littoral operations, however, without abandoning its significant ocean-going capabilities. It will be powered by conventional diesel-electric propulsion machinery and will be equipped with Kockums Stirling AIP system (air-independent propulsion). The latter have already been successfully operated with Gotland-class submarines, which made them most interesting to the US Navy, which leased a Gotland-class vessel for naval exercise purposes. The Sterling AIP system, combined with a set of balanced underwater signature properties, makes the submarine very difficult to detect and allows it to stay submerged for weeks. Furthermore, Kockums will also attempt to create a design that will be highly protected from underwater explosions through verified shock resistance.

Ulf Lindström further commented on the capabilities of Sweden's future submarines: "The submarine will, among other new features, be equipped to support Special Forces operations as well as the future use of autonomous or remotely controlled underwater vehicles." The submarine, which is intended to provide a high degree of modularity, "is also optimised for efficient production using large, resiliently mounted platforms and a highly modular interior," explained Lindström.

A key element in the future operations of the submarines will be information gathering, as Kjell Göthe, Senior Vice President PR & Communications at Kockums, told defpro.com. The combination of sensors and noiseless propulsion will enable the submarine to see and hear everything over a wide area while remaining undetected.

As Mr Göthe said, the recently awarded design contract, which will be implemented during the next two years, is an important success for Kockums and supports the further sustainment and development of Swedish expertise and know-how in the field of naval development and construction. The government is scheduled to make a decision on the building phase in spring 2010 and is aiming at 2017 for the launch of the first vessel.


Key data* of the next-generation submarine (A26):

"¢ Length: 63m (ca.)
"¢ Pressure hull diameter: 6,4m (ca.)
"¢ Two pressure tight compartments

"¢ Displacement:
- Surfaced:1,700 m³ (ca.)
- Submerged: 1,860 m³ (ca.)

"¢ DE-Gensets: 3 x 500 kW
"¢ Stirling AIP system Mk III: 3 x 65 kW
"¢ Crew size (mission dependent): 17-28

(*The data was provided by the Swedish FMV.)


----
By Nicolas von Kospoth, Managing Editor
 

Zebra

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Norwegian Official Urges Nordic Pooling for Naval Buys
By GERARD O'DWYER
Published: 3 May 2010 HELSINKI - Sweden's decision to modernize its submarine fleet has rekindled speculation over a possible joint venture capital program with Norway to develop a next-generation (NG) submarine.

Norway is mulling over what to do with its submarine fleet. The Ministry of Defense (MoD) established a working group in January to look at three options: buying NG submarines, upgrading and prolonging the life of the current fleet or terminating the fleet.

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The possibility of engaging in common, cross-border shipbuilding programs is being considered by Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark under the umbrella of ongoing talks over Nordic defense cooperation. The prospect for cross-border collaboration has heightened against a backdrop where the Norwegian government is fortifying its High North Arctic defenses while Sweden plans to strengthen its presence and capability in the Baltic Sea and Arctic.

"No Nordic country has sufficient military resources to go it alone in the security of the High North or the Baltic Sea. There is a need for a Nordic defense cooperation on an unprecedented scale to develop the capacities required," said Thorvald Stoltenberg, the former Norwegian defense minister and adviser to Nordic governments on mutual regional security strategies.

Stoltenberg has told Nordic governments they need to pool naval, air and land assets and engage in joint procurements to move toward an integrated approach to High North, Baltic Sea and regional defense.

"Individually, no Nordic country has enough submarines, surface ships, aircraft or land forces to secure regional security alone. Together, Nordic countries can make a real difference," Stoltenberg said.

In February, Norway's MoD estimated the cost of replacing its six Ula-class submarines at between $3 billion and $4 billion; the cost of an upgrade is calculated at 50 percent to 75 percent of this amount.

The Swedish government, which is already involved with Norway in the $3 billion Archer artillery joint procurement program, has proposed entering a similar cooperation to design and build a common NG submarine.

"It would be good to cooperate with Norway to develop a new-generation submarine and have the same system. A joint project such as this would present good opportunities for exchange of knowledge that we could all benefit from," said Hakan Jevrell, Sweden's state secretary for defense.

Unlike Sweden's diesel-electric Gotland-class attack submarines, which deploy an air-independent motor system and can remain underway for several weeks, Norway's Ula-class submarines must surface to recharge their batteries.

"Submarines like the Ula-class, that have a need to surface often, can become vulnerable targets. Sweden's submarines have had the capability to stay submerged for very long periods for 15 years. Cooperating with Sweden may be an appropriate thing to do. An international cooperation is certainly an interesting possibility," said Norwegian Rear Adm. Arne Roksund, who is heading up a review of the Navy's submarine fleet.

The Ula-class subs were delivered to the Norwegian Navy between 1983 and 1992. All six will need to be upgraded, or replaced, by 2020.

A joint NG submarine project might interest Finland, which does not have a submarine capability but is reviewing this area of need in line with its wish to cooperate with Sweden, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in offering a more robust naval presence in the Baltic Sea.

"The Finnish Navy would benefit from having a submarine capability. In relation to the defense of the Baltic Sea, Finland should have the same kinds of tools as others," said Alpo Juntunen, a defense analyst at the Finnish National Defense College's Strategy Unit.

Sweden's MoD confirmed April 10 that the Navy will acquire two new NG submarines to replace existing Södermanland-class vessels. At least two other subs, in the fleet of three Gotland vessels, are to be modernized.

The MoD is expected to place an order with local yard Kockums by year-end. Under the proposal, the NG subs would be delivered to the Swedish Navy between 2018 and 2019. Kockums, owned by Germany's Thyssen-Krupp Marine Systems, secured a contract to design the NG-submarine in February.

"We are investing in the future of Swedish naval capability. This will ensure that Sweden has the latest, the most capable and most effective submarine available. We also see export potential in this project," said Sten Tolgfors, Sweden's defense minister.

The previous pan-Scandinavian collaborative effort to support a common submarine program, the Viking-class Submarine Project, ended when Denmark discontinued its submarine fleet in 2004.

Viking Submarine Corp. was established to manage the project, backed by Kockums, Kongsberg (Norway) and Odense Steel (Denmark). Finland had observer status in the project.

The government-backed project sought to develop a modern successor to the Gotland-class submarine. The goal was to build 10 submarines, with Sweden acquiring two, and Denmark and Norway four each, with delivery beginning in 2005. â– 

E-mail: [email protected].
 

Tshering22

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A large country with 1.2 billion people should have an independent defense industry
Tell that to MMS and his owner. We've been harping this for 55 years. The irony is that despite so many wars our leadership is like this.
 

Blackwater

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Buy something at least .Don't waste billion of dollars laying idle,,,,, buy something
 

A.V.

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If you have an independent defence industry, then after 60 years effort, we should discuss about the quality of "made in india" instead of swedish, or British.
I am afraid to discuss you first have to know , but to know you need access to various news both positive and negative development but where the access is limited or denied it does not become a citizens fault of not knowing , believe me i have lived such times too , and i understand the way its subject to when information is cooked up and made to believe.
 

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