Shooting incident at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newton, USA

asianobserve

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The US should BAN assault rifles. Hand guns maybe owned for self-defense. But assault rifles belong to battlefields not the homes of ordinary American families where 1 of the children will snap one day and get papa's or mama's M16 to start shooting at everyone just for kicks.
 

Virendra

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Ingredients for school shootings:
1. School/students
2. Crazy person (shooter)
3. Guns

Now of these 3 ingredients which can you take out so that school shootings won't happen or minimized?
1. School/students? Cannot be taken out since children need to go to school.
2. Crazy person (shooter)? No. You cannot prevent people for going crazy (snapping).
3. Guns? YES. Prohibit the selling of semi-automatic rifles. Limit access to hand guns. Record all gun owners. Constant monitoring of those private citizens with firearms.
No you cannot. You cannot prevent seasoned criminals or psycho patient nutjobs from bringing a gun (legal/illegal) to the School.
I also have questions to ask :
A gun and a maniac can come together at any place any time. But why are all these incidents happening in Gun free zones like Schools and Prayer halls? Why don't they go to Army barracks, Shooting ranges. Never ever !!
Did he or did he not know that there will be no armed resistance?

Banning Guns to stop these incidents is like banning driving on roads to stop accidents; because some drunk idiot or underage teenager drove rashly.
The current prevailing (un) cultural agents in our societies via TV, Movies, Video Games have placed many a issues amongst us.
The brutal rapes in moving buses, stabbing on open streets in broad day light and trigger happy Gun massacres like Sandy Hook; all come from the same problem area.
If we're a more lawful, organized, civilized societies today than the savage medieval ages then why these things are happening?
Aren't our generations desensitized and brainwashed on a constant basis? Are we going to look into the root cause of will we just beat around the bush by calling to burn all Guns (if that was possible I would've supported it).
By the way US has always been heavily armed. Why so many mass shootings now? Definitely we're not looking at the bigger picture.

As far as Guns are concerned, what America needs is to stop the shop-counter selling of Guns.
There should be better licensing and its sticter implementation.
If you need a weapon for self defense, you must have a license by being :
a) A bonafide citizen with absolutely clean records.
b) Physically and mentally fit to own and operate a fire-arm.
c) Trained to use the fire-arm responsibly.
d) Proved their practice/training again, when arriving for license renewal.

In many US states they don't even need a Gun safety course to own a pistol.

Treating the medium or symptoms is not the way.
A maniac hell bent on taking lives would find a Gun in black market any day. He is not begging for a license.
He'll find a sword if not a gun and knife if not a sword. Is there a way to stop him?
Yes. By guarding the school with arms.
If we don't want Guns in Schools then armed guards must be placed on gates.
It would be foolish to have the happy misunderstanding that a Gun free zone is a safe zone.
No zone remains a gun free zone, the moment a maniac brings his load in and starts playing with fire.
Believe me this is an eternal see-saw of crime and society. Disarming the people enmasse is only counter productive.
Some of us will always be there as few rotten apples, to kill the others.
Technology has made the weapons more powerful today and thus the tactical difference between being armed and disarmed is widening rapidly.
As we cannot completely eliminate illegal black markets and their Guns (much like evil, disease and death), makes it even more important now that the society - their potential target - remains armed against this threat.
People have always been so, only the weapons have developed with times .. from sharp edged stones to Guns today.

What needs to be regulated is not whether we arm or not .. but rather whom of us get to arm themselves and whom not.
That is where I am debating.

Rather then blaming that lifeless piece of metal there are more important questions to ask,
How could the man lay hands on the weapons? If he got them from home, why did the mother not restrict his access seeing his behavior?
How could he enter the School armed to the teeth?
Did he have a license for them or did he steal someone else's Guns?

A gun is dangerous Yes, but that is what it is meant to be. You don't fight a life threat by sticking carrot in its throat. You need detterrance for it.

I hear this one a lot :
What if someone snapped, what if someone went crazy ....... :hmm:

What if a soldier in a barrack went crazy ????
What if a soldier in a battlefield went crazy and sprayed bullets on his own????
What if a man talking to me from a feet's distance went crazy and slit my throat???

2. Crazy person (shooter)
People going crazy is a too simplistic way to put it.
People always go crazy, everday, everywhere. How crazy are we talking about?
And even then, there is a kitchen in every household and a handsome long knife in every kitchen.
I should've seen half the world kill itself in homicides by now :rolleyes:

Do we even look at how many people die in road accidents everyday because of unlicesend, drunk or rash driving?

The US should BAN assault rifles. Hand guns maybe owned for self-defense. But assault rifles belong to battlefields not the homes of ordinary American families where 1 of the children will snap one day and get papa's or mama's M16 to start shooting at everyone just for kicks.
It would be appaling and criminal for the parents to let the kids be exposed to loaded fire-arms.
Until you're an adult you do not get exclusive access to a firearm at all. Period. No if and buts.
Learning is one thing and using is another. One may start teaching their teenager, depending upon their marutiy level. Starting with an empty gun of course.
If they show interest and have respect for the law, they will wait their turn and go through the licensing when the time comes.
Those who want shortcuts are clearly not ready for it.
Parents who want Guns in their houses better own up the responsiblity that comes along with the power of a Gun.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Virendra

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YES. Prohibit the selling of semi-automatic rifles
Pardon my nitpick here. Do you truly understand what is automatic, semi-automatic and realize what comes below semi automatic?
Manual is what comes below semi automatic. Meaning you will have to manually eject and reload new round after each cartridge that you fire.
Do you realize how much time it takes and what it implies to a real life self defense scenario?
Do you expect people to be able to defend themselves with that?
And this doesn't include the firing action obviously.
 

asianobserve

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It would be appaling and criminal for the parents to let the kids be exposed to loaded fire-arms.
Until you're an adult you do not get exclusive access to a firearm at all. Period. No if and buts.
Learning is one thing and using is another. One may start teaching their teenager, depending upon their marutiy level. Starting with an empty gun of course.
If they show interest and have respect for the law, they will wait their turn and go through the licensing when the time comes.
Those who want shortcuts are clearly not ready for it.
Parents who want Guns in their houses better own up the responsiblity that comes along with the power of a Gun.

Regards,
Virendra

At home the children will always find ways to gain access to "interesting" things of their parents like guns (more with older children). Oftentimes parents will not know it. I have a friend who was accidentally shot while he was toying with the handgun of his father. He died.
 

Virendra

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Criminal mistake of the parents.
I have read many incidents where the parents were out and one of the kids put the other in a washing machine (as if it were a game). The kid died.
 

Virendra

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well i think India has done a commendable job here by having a stringent gun law here in the country,otherwise we would also be facing these sorts of things now!:rolleyes:
I think our law is just fine but the implementation is draconian.
As courts have reiterated many times, Indian Constitution states that any bonafide citizen who doesn't have a criminal record is automatically eligible for a license unless the Cops could prove that he/she is unfit.
The cops "no threat to life" diktat won't do. Person has to be shown physically / mentally unfit or having other motives in seeking the license.
Yet the reality is quite different. Licenses are rejected because the Cops don't think that the applicant has "threat to life".
I thought even the best of the astrologers couldn't predict for when I'll be mugged, robbed or killed in street violence. :dude:
How can the Cops do it when they themselves say things like this:
"Police is not like an 'ATM machine' which can be present at the crime scene the moment one inserts a card in the machine."
~Assam DGP Jayanta Narayan Chowdhury on Assam molestation case.

We coudn't control illegal firearms and the blackmarket that sells them. We couldn't control the criminals who buy them (they don't give a damn to the license requirement) from the blackmarket cheaply.
I think we took it too far in the name of Gun control.
Lets hear it from the horse's mouth to draw a clear line between the real culprits in Gun violence and the victims of Gun phobia.
From - Illegal market for guns thrives in Delhi - The Times of India
..."An officer (cop) told TOI that illegal weapons outnumber legal ones in the city eight to one, and more than 90% of violent crimes in Delhi are committed using unlicensed guns"...

Do you think it is the tax paying law abiding citizenry of our country that owns those illegal firearms?
Nah .. they are the disarmed society on the edge all the time. Who are they any way, when even banks can be looted easily.
Look at this :


Regards,
Virendra
 
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Everybody in US is pushing for stricter gun control laws, my question is what happens to
responsible people who have large collections?? I am not against gun control but the shooter's
mother was not being responsible when she had her mentally ill son join her at the shooting range
and had all these different guns around the house. Many people keep their guns under lock and key.
 

Virendra

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Taking your mentally ill kid to shooting range is certainly inviting a disaster. That is not education. :tsk:
Even a fit and normal kid has to be trained with extreme caution and care.
 
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Taking your mentally ill kid to shooting range is certainly inviting a disaster. That is not education. :tsk:
Even a fit and normal kid has to be trained with extreme caution and care.
His Mother was a teacher she should have known much better than that.
 

s002wjh

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The US should BAN assault rifles. Hand guns maybe owned for self-defense. But assault rifles belong to battlefields not the homes of ordinary American families where 1 of the children will snap one day and get papa's or mama's M16 to start shooting at everyone just for kicks.
ar15 is not an assault rifle, its a semi-automatic rifle. ownership of assault rifle in US is rare, and has better records. cost $20k.
 

s002wjh

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AR-15 (bushmaster) is an assault rifle you can think of it as the American version
of AK-47.
defination of assult rifle plz read and don't be ignore on different type of guns. bushmaster is AN SEMI-AUTO weapon, its an sem-auto rifle

Assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.
 

Virendra

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Sorry I mixed assault rifle and assault weapon. They're both different.
 
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Bushmaster Assault Rifle - Oklahoma City Firearms | Examiner.com

Bushmaster Assault Rifle

Before Bushmaster made AR-15 clones they produced a rifle marked "Bushmaster Assault Rifle". While using a number of AR-15 type minor parts this rifle is of a much different design. The lower receiver appears to be milled from an aluminum alloy while the upper receiver is stamped steel with the rear sight base and bolt guide rails welded into place. This model has a folding stock but I've examined another that has a fixed wooden stock. Both rifles use black painted wood forearms.

Disassembly is unique. A U shaped metal clip on top of the rifle directly in front of the bolt is held in place by and retains the recoil spring that surrounds the gas piston. Pressing this clip slightly forward against the spring pressure and lifting it out of the rifle allows the gas piston that's attached to the bolt carrier in much the same manner as in the AK 47 to be retracted from it's housing. Push the rear takedown pin to the left and pivot the upper receiver up. Pull the charging handle to the rear until it stops and unscrew it from the bolt carrier. The bolt, bolt carrier, and gas piston assembly can now be removed from the back of the upper receiver.

The mechanism appears to borrow from the AR-15, AK 47 and the AR-180 and functions reliably. The front sight adjusts for elevation in the same manner as any AR-15 and the rear sight appears to be an early AR-15 two position aperture that is click adjustable for windage by a knob that can be turned with the fingers.

The barrel seems to be a 1 in 12" twist with an early AR-15 three prong flash suppressor and a clamp on bayonet lug. Accuracy is as good as any rack grade 5.56mm as long as light bullets are used because of the barrel's twist rate.

Handling is virtually the same as an AR-15. The weight is similar as is overall length and placement of controls with the exception of the charging handle and the location on the Bushmaster is an improvement. The buttstock locks in the extended position but does not when folded.

Overall it's an interesting design.
 

Singh

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Why are Americans making this about mental health rather than gun control ?

And if its to do with mental health, then don't allow people to keep guns ?

Terrible tragedy.

There is an innate Human trait, to hate people who do anything to harm little babies and children.
 
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It is a good motive for such an heinous act. Even if he was caught alive if
he was found mentally ill her would not be excecuted probably institutionalized.
John Hinkley Jr who shot President Reagan in 1982 and killed 1-2 other people is still
alive.
 

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