Shocking! No radars over China frontier, confirms IAF chief

[Armand2REP]

Just let China walk in... WAKE UP GoI!

 

[nrj]

5.What is so difficult to understand ?, Or what else one trying to see..

Poor state of affairs. Bad planning. Bad govt. Bad politicians. Corruption in forces. A chance to bash around.

--

Its coming from NewsXlive, a stupid & incompetent outlet which is known to misrepresent facts.

--

Why others can't see? same all same old

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I doubt this is true, why publish an article like this?? to test the chinese?? We probably have AWACS close by?

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Indian-AWACS-Moving-Forward-on-2-Fronts-04855/

 

[Kunal Biswas]

why publish an article like this??

Indian AWACS Moving Forward on 2 Fronts

Sir, Nothing to do with Chinese but viewer ratings..

 

[nrj]

[h=1]IAF beefs up radars along Chinese border[/h]
[h=2]India to boost air defence on China border[/h]
Pick anyone. These are from 2009. Mind it.

 

[SHASH2K2]

my brother In law was in radar divison of Air force and as per him we do have decent enough Radar coverage on chinese border . Though coverage is not as good as it is on Pakistani border . lesser number of radar stations and terrain is major factor behind this but I am sure we are catching up. There are many new stations need to be setup in order to fill up the gaps. as far as I know north western areas need major upgrades as sometimes weather also plays a major role as many radars donot work even after providing heating to certain systems.

 

[plugwater]

We need more short and medium range radars to plug the gaps cos of the terrain.

long range radars are effective only for high flying aircrafts.

 

[ace009]

nrj's links are good - look at the video-date - July 2009 - old news. the links are from September 2009 - which means things must have improved by now.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Thales wins Indian Air Force low-level radar deal

Thales wins Indian Air Force low-level radar deal

November 20th, 2009

DUBAI – Thales has won a contract to supply the Indian Air Force 19 low-level transportable radar systems based on the Ground Smarter (GS) 100 sensor, the defense company announced at the air show here.


Thales will build six of the 19 radars at its Limours facility, southwest of Paris. Under a technology transfer agreement, its local partner Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) will build the remaining 13 units in India, the French defense company said Nov. 15.


Each low level transportable radar system comprises the GS 100 radar, operational and communications shelters, an energy subsystem, mobility subsystem and quarters for personnel.


"This contract reinforces our position in the Indian region as a major supplier of air defense radars," said Richard Deakin, Thales senior vice president and head of the air systems division. "BEL is a leading supplier of defense electronics systems and subsystems and plays a leading role in a number of major Indian defense programmes."

The GS 100, based on the SR3D radar platform, is a mobile, modular and multifunctional sensor designed to track complex target manoeuvres at very low altitudes, Thales said.


The sensor can detect and track targets up to a range of 180 km. The SR3D platform is also used in the Ground Master 400 long range radar, launched into the market in 2007.


No financial details were given. The international competition for the radar was launched in 2003.

From: Dubai Air Show 2009 � Thales wins Indian Air Force low-level radar deal

 

[ace009]

Any idea where these are being deployed and when?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

2016-2017 over N.E and J&K, Ladak..

 

[ace009]

Only 16 are enough for all that area? I thought you need one for each valley in the northeast and there are close to a hundred of them ...

 

[DMF]

Be relaxed, now China is in the defense position, you Indians are darling and ally of the mighty USA, you can already line up with Vietnam to meddle the South China sea, what China can do? China is a crippled duck, at USA and India's mercy, maybe after 15-20years, will China dare to talk to India then.

 

[The Messiah]

Be relaxed, now China is in the defense position, you Indians are darling and ally of the mighty USA, you can already line up with Vietnam to meddle the South China sea, what China can do? China is a crippled duck, at USA and India's mercy, maybe after 15-20years, will China dare to talk to India then.

India is not darling of anyone. Your govt has made us more friendly with usa and vietnam.

You could have had India as your friend but your govt didn't choose to. I thank your govt for smashing some sense into our govt and made them more proactive than ever before.

 

[nrj]

Its not just about numbers. You first install radars, analyze the pattern of reception, feed resolution, blind spots, accuracy checks with physical confirmations, revisit initial plan, make necessary changes which may include increase in numbers or enhancement of present setup in aspects of power & plotting.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

We need more short and medium range radars to plug the gaps cos of the terrain.

long range radars are effective only for high flying aircrafts.

The Chinese are not known to posses terrain avoidance systems that permit NOE(nap of the earth) ingress via mountainous terrain, defensive radar coverage over such using ground assets is at best patchy. IAF may have covered the most likely ingress routes over plains and relatively flatter terrain with coverage it can afford. Airborne radars are more effective but expensive for constant peacetime surveillance such assets are typically
resevered for wartime use or limited to periods of heightened tensions.

 

[ace009]

Be relaxed, now China is in the defense position, you Indians are darling and ally of the mighty USA, you can already line up with Vietnam to meddle the South China sea, what China can do? China is a crippled duck, at USA and India's mercy, maybe after 15-20years, will China dare to talk to India then.

Crippled duck? Indeed!
Is that why China is building naval bases in Pakistan and Myanmar?
Is that why china has built >20 forward air-bases in Tibet and Kunming? Or building roadways through uninhabited lands right to the border of India?
Is that why at diplomatic missions China fails to accept Arunachal and Sikkim as part of India despite previous agreements?
Is that why China is building the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier in Asia?

Hmmmmm - I wonder.

 

[sayareakd]

this is what he said.....
source:IMINT & Analysis: The Indian SAM Network

this does not give correct picture this much i can say.

 

[Payeng]

this does not give correct picture this much i can say.

This image is more or less true atleast for the NE region, I hardly have any info of Active Air defense batteries operational for the whole NE, but on the other hand the same also applies for PRC, if any plans does exist to beef up security in the NE region I will prefer III and IV army crops HQ and Tezpur, Chabua and Shillong AFB to come under the security umbrella first, more over a new regiment of Brahmos Cruise missile to be stationed in NE indicates some kind of a security umbrella to be established in the region, more then that in the entire NE region their is also no Armoured brigade nor Artillery Brigade neither Mechanised brigade to add. but the point is even PRC is also not that prepared in that area and new generation intel will prevent rapid deployment of troops in the boarder area without the knowledge to the other side.

 

[Archer]

dude- he says the only way for airforce and ARMY he states is to be notified through the ITBP force. Now tell me - why if army could notify the airforce per your radar statement- would he THEN say THE ONLY way they get notified about intrusions is through that force and not mention army notifications? and he says even the army gets notified by them ( ITBP)

can someone else help out here and actually watch and hear the AF chief's statement in the video posted here.

Dont get confused. Radar coverage occurs at three levels - low, medium, high. Based on each requirement (altitude and range) you have different radars of different power ratings, sizes etc. India does have coverage with high and medium level radars, not ideal and far below what IAF actually wants for gapless coverage, but it is there, and these usually cover VAs and VPs and routes around the same (Vital Areas/Vital Points). NE is a special case because like in Kashmir, the heavily forested, mountainous terrain is full of valleys. That means unlike the plains, even a mast mounted medium/high power radar will have blind zones in its coverage. Low flying helicopters and aircraft, can use these to fly below the radars line of sight (which could be blocked because of the terrain features getting in the way). That is why the chief mentioned terrain and the challenges. So for the NE, the IAF is looking at and has ordered two specific kind of radars, these can either be quickly deployed to spots where the coverage is weak, or placed on top of mountains, scanning the valleys where the radars on the other side of the feature do not have clear LOS. These radars are Low Level Transportable Radars (LLTR) and Low Level Light Weight radars (what the Chief referred to as LLLWRs).

The IAF has ordered two kinds of LLTRs - one is the indigenous Rohini made by DRDO for the Akash. This was a big success for DRDO and BEL, because they made a surveillance radar for Akash, and it performed very well in IAF trials, especially during Op Parakram where the radar even detected UAVs at long range and the IAF quickly ordered it for the LLTR requirement. Rohini is the fully Indian version of the 3D CAR for the Akash, parts of which we codeveloped with Poland (antenna hardware). India has now replaced that with a new system for the Rohini (a MK2 of the original 3D CAR in a way).

37 of these radars were ordered per public reports, with 7 first, followed by 30 more.These are now being delivered by BEL. Another LLTR ordered by the IAF was the Thales system mentioned by Kunal. These will also be deployed in the NE. As you can see the two systems are different - the Rohini LLTR is vehicle mounted and can be quickly deployed. The Thales LLTR is cabin containerized and can be transported by air. Based on where, which is suitable the IAF will employ them accordingly.

The second is the LLLWR - again, here the IAF needed several systems and some 15 or so per public IAF reports were ordered from Israel. In the meanwhile, DRDO developed two LLLWR (2D for the Army - called Bharani and 3D for the AF called Aslesha). The Aslesha was trialled by the IAF and cleared for induction after good performance in J&K area, Leh etc. This excellent system is also made by BEL, and utilizes tech developed by DRDO for its AESA programs.
21 of these radars have now been ordered by the IAF and hence this requirement is also met.

Meanwhile, DRDO is also developing an AESA LLTR due within the next few years. Once that clears trials, it will meet the requirement met by the Thales LLTR & supplant Rohini as well in production. Basically we will have one LLTR for multiple functions, deployable for multiple regions and that requirement will be totally indigenized as well.

BEL-DRDO also took the Rohini & modified it to meet an Army requirement for a new surveillance radar. Called the Tactical Control Radar, many of these have now been ordered by the Army. The key requirement was packaging into less vehicles for even better mobility, albeit at the expense of range (the Army wanted less range but more mobility, so you don't have to put the radar on its high mast). This radar will now form the backbone of the Army AD which operates Shilka, SA-6 (Akash has been ordered as well).

Apart from this we have high level radars (or high power radars) or medium level radars (or medium power radars). Again, upgrades and orders have been placed for these two segments, and local development is also going on simultaneously. Basically, imports at best are of limited numbers to meet immediate requirements but DRDO/BELs increasing and successful competence in radars now provides the basis for long term sustained success across different requirements.

Finally, in times of crisis, AEW&C can also be moved to specific areas for long range coverage. Again, depending on what we need to see, if for instance, we want to cover certain valleys, these "gapfillers" will have to be placed accordingly. We have 3 Phalcons already, and this year, the DRDO AEW & C (3 on order) will also begin trials.

The IAF has also ordered 8 Akash MK1 squadrons and some 4 SpyDer squadrons. At least some of the former will be deployed in the North East per IAF statements. These come with their own radars.

Last - the role of the ITBP is very important. Historically, because of the problem with sensor//terrain, even in 1971, a huge role has been played by forward observers. These guys man border posts every x- or xx-km and are trained in aircraft recognition and given radios, binoculars. Moment they see a plane, they report, and IAF responds. This early warning trigger system, as matter of fact, can beat many advanced sensors hollow. Human ingenuity, dedication and responsiveness basically.

Hope this helps. Situation was not ideal but thanks to some breakthroughs in local development plus orders placed, it will be well in hand over the coming years.