Shariah for Hind:

Ray

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I would say card carrying members of an organisation are not the worry.

It is the sympathisers who one cannot be identified and counted who are the problem.

Khrushed till a few days back was the 'face' of the emancipated nationalistic Muslim.

His true colour surfaced during the UP elections where his love for his wife exposed his true and latent angst!

I rather have Owassis in our midst than Khursheds!

It is the Khursheds who are the danger (before exposing his true colours) and not the Togadias since the Togadias can be reined in and sorted out! Or the Imam of Jama Mazjid, who is but a wind vane!
 
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Ray

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He should hang himself first according to sharia law...because he drank alcohol which is against islam.
Please read the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam.

Ah, fill the Cup: -- what boots it to repeat
How Time is slipping underneath our Feet:
Unborn To-morrow, and dead Yesterday,
Why fret about them if To-day be sweet!


"Wine of the Mystic" by Paramahansa Yogananda, is an illustrated interpretation of the FitzGerald translation. Each quatrain is accompanied with Persian text, a glossary of terms, Yoganada's spiritual interpretation, and practical interpretation. It won the 1994 Benjamin Franklin Award in the field of Religion. Yogananda makes an argument for the mystical basis of Khayyam's Rubaiyat.
 

Ray

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Question: Why is alcohol forbidden in Islam?

Answer: Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)

In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.

Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like.

The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

Alcohol in Islam
 

ejazr

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One of the tenets of counter intelligence is that if a person or organisation is not a total threat, then it should not be banned.

It is better to keep such a person or organisation 'over ground' and capable of being 'watched', than have that organisation going 'underground' and having to require a greater effort in funds, manpower et al to keep a watch.
Well that makes sense until a person is not involved in terror activities or hate speech. And Anjem Choudary has been convicted of hate speech as well as supporting terror activities. His prison sentence was commuted to the disbelief of UK muslims given that other muslim caught in even planning terror acts were given much longer prison sentences.

SIMI for example, was never implitcated in terror acts when it was banned in 2001. But its support of the 9/11 attacks - non-violent it may be- was enough for the Vajpayee govt. to ban it.


The average Indian Muslim would find this man a total embarrassment and would give them grounds to worry! Hence, they would not like him to come and add fuel to the fire.

However, the more strident Muslim organisation and personalities would possibly be pleased that he come officially to espouse the Muslim cause which they themselves would like to raise but cannot owing to the secular characteristic of India and the fear that it could cause a tsunami that would wipe out their hold and maybe they themselves in the bargain since it would give cause to the Hindu right wing to justify their agenda against the Muslims reinventing the Muslim Mughal hold over India.

No one will demolish Anjem.

They will wait to see how the pennies fall!

All I know is that his presence on Indian soil would be dangerous for the average peace loving Indian of all religious hues and Anjem would be just another wind de la mort!
When I mentioned that Indian Muslim religious scholars can demolish him intellectually on his shariah points, I was mentioning this because this is what they have been doing as part of the anti-terror conferences being organized and one of which I attended. Not Anjem Choudary himself ofcourse, but the idea that democracy is UnIslamic and the political Islamic ideology that groups like Hizb-ut-Tahrir and SIMI would represent. The idea that Muslims have to work towards establishing some top down "Islamic state". And this is something that is being done around the Muslim world and not just in India. Even the much maligned wahabbis ulema have written polemic tracts discrediting this political Islamic ideology. Infact, some of the best pieces have come from the Arab world where Muslim Brotherhood members have written how democracy is integral to Islam and elections is perfectly alright to ascertain the will of the people.
In the UK, the Qulliam foundation formed by former HT members does a more English-oriented work on discrediting the basis of this political religious discourse.

As I have said earlier, its not the sect Deobandi,. Barelvi, shia, sunni that we should worry about but whether a groups has a political religious agenda. Such a group would be on a watchlist and as they radicalize there is a very good chance of them moving towards terrorism and violence.

And yes, I do agree, it will cause problems for Indian Muslims in particular because a fringe lunactic like Anjem is perfect for getting TRPs and media coverage, particularly given his English speaking and media savvy skills. We would have a UK born and bred extremist apparently representing the Indian Muslims in the minds of some. And while some Hindu extremists(I don't call them right wingers as I don't see extremism of this sort as right wing) might hope for a clash so as to polarise votes in their favour - after all Ram Sene activists raising the Pakistani flag in K'taka was part of the same tactic - I believe Anjem Choudary and his supporters would like the same as well and are on the same side as them.

After all what better way to bog India down than by creating intra-religious tensions between the two pillars of Indian society - the Hindus and Muslims. The Pakistanis have tried their best to do the same and although we have no proof of this here, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some support from them here as well. Because after all, Pakistan would have been the logical place for Anjem to go; given that Pakistan is already an Islamic country and has Sharia courts established. And as any student of Islamic law knows, shariah laws would apply only to Muslims and not non-Muslims in any case.

In any case, I am sure everyone will keenly await March 3. Does anyone know if he actually has been issued a visa yet? Also, I can't see what the venue is except that they will do a street protest near the parliament. But that is not possible given the security restrictions. And you have to take permission from the Delhi police to hold any open air meet like in Ram Leela maidan for example. So still not sure if its a publicity stunt or is some event really planned in Delhi.
 

Ray

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And as any student of Islamic law knows, shariah laws would apply only to Muslims and not non-Muslims in any case.
I am afraid that is a very sane thought.

However, the Islamic countries do not share your sanity.

They apply it to ALL - including non Muslims.

I presume that they are correct by the Islamic jurisprudence!
 

Mad Indian

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The title is amusing. Shariah "for Hind" would be kicked out of the country with force by the people before politicians could ever capitalize on it. We've seen and fought off enough shyte in the last 12 centuries to kick this lunatic out.

It is such a cheap political tactic to invite that terrorist Anjem Chaudhry to India.
Just wait and see maimo will shed tears for his sacrifice and offer him a Cabinet post:rofl::rofl: sickular alert:bhangra::bhangra:
 

Mad Indian

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Well that makes sense until a person is not involved in terror activities or hate speech. And Anjem Choudary has been convicted of hate speech as well as supporting terror activities. His prison sentence was commuted to the disbelief of UK muslims given that other muslim caught in even planning terror acts were given much longer prison sentences.

SIMI for example, was never implitcated in terror acts when it was banned in 2001. But its support of the 9/11 attacks - non-violent it may be- was enough for the Vajpayee govt. to ban it.




When I mentioned that Indian Muslim religious scholars can demolish him intellectually on his shariah points, I was mentioning this because this is what they have been doing as part of the anti-terror conferences being organized and one of which I attended. Not Anjem Choudary himself ofcourse, but the idea that democracy is UnIslamic and the political Islamic ideology that groups like Hizb-ut-Tahrir and SIMI would represent. The idea that Muslims have to work towards establishing some top down "Islamic state". And this is something that is being done around the Muslim world and not just in India. Even the much maligned wahabbis ulema have written polemic tracts discrediting this political Islamic ideology. Infact, some of the best pieces have come from the Arab world where Muslim Brotherhood members have written how democracy is integral to Islam and elections is perfectly alright to ascertain the will of the people.
In the UK, the Qulliam foundation formed by former HT members does a more English-oriented work on discrediting the basis of this political religious discourse.

As I have said earlier, its not the sect Deobandi,. Barelvi, shia, sunni that we should worry about but whether a groups has a political religious agenda. Such a group would be on a watchlist and as they radicalize there is a very good chance of them moving towards terrorism and violence.

And yes, I do agree, it will cause problems for Indian Muslims in particular because a fringe lunactic like Anjem is perfect for getting TRPs and media coverage, particularly given his English speaking and media savvy skills. We would have a UK born and bred extremist apparently representing the Indian Muslims in the minds of some. And while some Hindu extremists(I don't call them right wingers as I don't see extremism of this sort as right wing) might hope for a clash so as to polarise votes in their favour - after all Ram Sene activists raising the Pakistani flag in K'taka was part of the same tactic - I believe Anjem Choudary and his supporters would like the same as well and are on the same side as them.

After all what better way to bog India down than by creating intra-religious tensions between the two pillars of Indian society - the Hindus and Muslims. The Pakistanis have tried their best to do the same and although we have no proof of this here, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some support from them here as well. Because after all, Pakistan would have been the logical place for Anjem to go; given that Pakistan is already an Islamic country and has Sharia courts established. And as any student of Islamic law knows, shariah laws would apply only to Muslims and not non-Muslims in any case.

In any case, I am sure everyone will keenly await March 3. Does anyone know if he actually has been issued a visa yet? Also, I can't see what the venue is except that they will do a street protest near the parliament. But that is not possible given the security restrictions. And you have to take permission from the Delhi police to hold any open air meet like in Ram Leela maidan for example. So still not sure if its a publicity stunt or is some event really planned in Delhi.
Sir dont take it personally... but it does not take hundred terrorists to kill hundred people... all it takes is one terrorist.....

We are not saying all are like that but even a fraction can cause a destruction beyond limit...

Now tell me... ideally there should be no such thing called the SIMI/IM for its ideology... Yet it has 400 members as per your claims... what does this even mean...???

Please note I am not accusing them of terror.. they are as much an Indian as every one else but, these numbers are worrying are they not...????
 

KS

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At its peak a grand total of 400 full time members and around 2000 ordinary members.
Card carrying members are not the issue. The thing is those who silently sympathize with the cause and dont show it explicitly for obvious reasons, but will not oppose it once they get enough power to do so.

And just as we can't expect VHP, Bajrang Dal or Ram Sene activists who want political Hindu ideology to be implemented in India as mainstream,.
The difference is those groups dont call for desecration and demolition of all masjids, minarets and parish cathedrals. They just want the Hindu (Indian) way of living to be preserved and not overwhelmed by other idealogies. A fair demand considering that is what happening all over the world.

Even though they are bastards, they are our bastards. Anjem Chaudhary is not.
 

KS

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BSKS are good !!!

In a press release, the Honourable Delhi High Court stated its judgment thus, "Honourable Delhi High Court, after hearing the PIL filed by Bhagat Singh Kranthi Sena's President, Tajinder Pal Singh Bagga, through his advocate Vikas Padora, directed Commissioner of Police to verify the website wwwshariah4hind.com and ban it in India if needed and further directed to make sure that no such rally should take place in Delhi, as such rallies are threat to secularism and communal harmony of India. Chief Justice expressed his concern on the issue.
http://indiawires.com/7957/news/national/court-bans-shariah4hind-website-prohibits-3-march-rally/
 

Mad Indian

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Tronic

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Shariah for Hind.. 5 pages of discussion over it... all started by the news of this guy coming to India:





LOL
 

mayfair

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There have been whispers that this bloke is a MI-5 protege. Not sure how much truth in that, after all similar whispers abound for another Brit Omar Sheikh as well.
 

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