Shani temple to Sabarimala..................

[Agnostic_Indian]

Yeah, that' why I said that to need to understand the 'faith' one has to be 'faithful' first.

Discrimination? Okey. So be it. There are thousands of Shani temple in this country, let those 'devotees' go devote themselves to those, since most of them don't have such a restriction. Same with Ayyappa temple.

Those women have faith in the diety that's why they are there to worship in the firs place, Gender discrimination cannot be justified under any of traditions. If other templs are open to women then women should be ok to discrimination in this temple ?

Also, has any newschannel or newspaper took a poll of women who visit those temples whether they wish to violate the tradition and see the deity? No. Because the women visiting those temples out of faith will not wish to break tradition. But, the bitches whose profession is offending Hindus, will.

Conspiracy theory? No theory, but fact.

Why should there be a poll ? Those who agitate are doing it becuse they want it, they are hindu women of india..and don't mistake that they are the only one who want it, it's just that only this much women have come forward to agitate and claim their rights. Refrain from using bad words, they are as much hindu as anybody else, and their sentiments are also hindu sentiments, and women's sentiments. The regressive temple authorities and orthodoxs are the one hurting the sentiments, not the other way around.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/mahar...s-campaign-to-enter-shani-temple_1849391.html

 

[DingDong]

What is unnatural about being gay?

I have come across many people of different orientations and they seem to be very normal to me. In fact, they are more devout and committed than your average normal straight couple.

Homosexuality is completely natural, everything is natural, but just like the White Lions homosexuality is an aberration to put it mildly.

Don't throw in words like "Devotion" and "Commitment" etc. Social Morality is not at all important.

Try answering the following:
Why would Nature favour Homosexuals? How does a Homosexual Individual increase the fitness of a Species?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Homosexuality is completely natural, everything is natural, but just like the White Lions homosexuality is an aberration to put it mildly.

Don't throw in words like "Devotion" and "Commitment" etc. Social Morality is not at all important.

Try answering the following:
Why would Nature favour Homosexuals? How does a Homosexual Individual increase the fitness of a Species?

Could not agree more, i too think it's an aberration either by accident or by design for some benfits for survival or balancing or what ever.

 

[sasum]

homosexuality be accepted which is completely against the nature's natural course of life cycle?

What is "natural course of life cycle"? If a beef-eating community thinks being vegetarian is abnormal, then a veggie amongst them become outcast? much like a Gay in your view?

 

[alphacentury]

^^^^^
Every society has its bars, restrictions and structures. That's like the most important tool for any society to function. Now, some societies will have the bar at lower order and some at high order. but, the thing is these bars and restriction are necessary for any society . It gives people a direction/path to follow on. And I dont think we humans have evolved yet, to live with absolute individual freedom. Absolute individual freedom will be a bane for progress of humans as a whole, at this point of time.

Now, as time passes on , societies will become less restrict and will be more open/liberal, but the question is to what extent? For ex- our generation is more open towards homosexuality unlike our previous generations, in the same way , our next generations may be more open towards incest, paedophilia, necrophilia, beastality etc etc.
But that would not make them any more special than us , just like we are not any special than our predecessors. Its only a matter of time.

And may be, eventually with time, individual freedom will take over any kind of societal structure or order, and chaos will ensue. People with an easy life and abundance of time will look for some kind of structure/order to hold on to, to have some meaning in their life. Just like we see these days, teens from countries like sweden, having an easy life, joining isis. And similarly,that period may see birth of new cults/religions/societal orders or revival of some. And voila , the cycle is complete.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

What is "natural course of life cycle"? If a beef-eating community thinks being vegetarian is abnormal, then a veggie amongst them become outcast? much like a Gay in your view?

Yeah, I have no strong views on the gay issue either way but there is another angle to the Sec 377 that no one is talking about. It's the fact that it criminalizes ALL acts of anal sex and blowjobs even among consenting heterosexual couples! Because of the way it describes 'unnatural acts'. A husband and a willing wife legally cannot participate in anal sex because of Sec 377, and everyone is just talking about gay rights. This section even affects heterosexuals.

Personally, I think legalizing gay marriage will cause more problem to muslims and christians when their children coming out of the closet. These are the communities at the forefront of preaching liberalism to Hindus. It would be an interesting thing to see how liberal they are when mosques and churches start issuing fatwas against their own gay kids

The kids will start using the uniform civil code to get married instead of religious personal law. Holy hell! The Abrahamic religions will lose a lot of followers like it happened in the US.

 

[sasum]

Yeah, I have no strong views on the gay issue either way but there is another angle to the Sec 377 that no one is talking about. It's the fact that it criminalizes ALL acts of anal sex and blowjobs even among consenting heterosexual couples! Because of the way it describes 'unnatural acts'. A husband and a willing wife legally cannot participate in anal sex because of Sec 377, and everyone is just talking about gay rights. This section even affects heterosexuals.

Very pertinent point raised..but I am at a loss how gay/ lesbo relations can produce chid

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Those women have faith in the diety that's why they are there to worship in the firs place, Gender discrimination cannot be justified under any of traditions. If other templs are open to women then women should be ok to discrimination in this temple ?


Why should there be a poll ? Those who agitate are doing it becuse they want it, they are hindu women of india..and don't mistake that they are the only one who want it, it's just that only this much women have come forward to agitate and claim their rights. Refrain from using bad words, they are as much hindu as anybody else, and their sentiments are also hindu sentiments, and women's sentiments. The regressive temple authorities and orthodoxs are the one hurting the sentiments, not the other way around.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/mahar...s-campaign-to-enter-shani-temple_1849391.html

Temple is not their property and they have to follow the local traditions.

The dharmic way of protest for them is to make their own temple and do whatever they want rather than force people to accept their opinion. We do not need to copy western "discrimination" ideas completely.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Temple is not their property and they have to follow the local traditions.

The dharmic way of protest for them is to make their own temple and do whatever they want rather than force people to accept their opinion. We do not need to copy western "discrimination" ideas completely.

So if i have a temple which is open for all devotees except dalits, will that be allowed because this is my temple my rule?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

So if i have a temple which is open for all devotees except dalits, will that be allowed because this is my temple my rule?

Technically yes. Unless this becomes a norm in the entire country, which might need state intervention. Few aberrations here and there due to some local traditions do not need state intervention.

Point is you are dragging this protest out of proportion. There are men specific and women specific rituals as well as temples all over India. We do not have to fall for fake equality in every respect.

 

[sasum]

Temple is not their property and they have to follow the local traditions.

The dharmic way of protest for them is to make their own temple and do whatever they want rather than force people to accept their opinion. We do not need to copy western "discrimination" ideas completely.

Yes sir, women, dalits, lepers, HIV+ all fall in the same category and should be barred from entering & defiling holy Hindu shrines.
I am saying this despite being a brahmin male.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Yes sir, women, dalits, lepers, HIV+ all fall in the same category and should be barred from entering & defiling holy Hindu shrines.
I am saying this despite being a brahmin male.

I am not sure about them, but you should definitely be banned!

 

[asingh10]

Technically yes. Unless this becomes a norm in the entire country, which might need state intervention. Few aberrations here and there due to some local traditions do not need state intervention.

Point is you are dragging this protest out of proportion. There are men specific and women specific rituals as well as temples all over India. We do not have to fall for fake equality in every respect.

It's a simple case of Shani devta being a Brahmacharin & hence respecting his wishes that the idol should not be touched by opposite sex, there is no malicious intent behind it like barring Dalits from temple entry. But then again these people are champions of giving false equivalences and bracketing separate issues.

 

[sasum]

It's a simple case of Shani devta being a Brahmacharin & hence respecting his wishes that the idol should not be touched by opposite sex, there is no malicious intent behind it like barring Dalits from temple entry. But then again these people are champions of giving false equivalences and bracketing separate issues.

Now, this is a sane explanation, at long last !!

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

It's a simple case of Shani devta being a Brahmacharin & hence respecting his wishes that the idol should not be touched by opposite sex, there is no malicious intent behind it like barring Dalits from temple entry. But then again these people are champions of giving false equivalences and bracketing separate issues.

"Why does he have to be a Brahmachari if he cannot handle touch from opposite sex"-- modern Indian feminist!

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Very pertinent point raised..but I am at a loss how gay/ lesbo relations can produce chid

They can opt for IVF or adoption.

I wouldn't say that being gay is a disease but it is an aberration, like albinism. I'm not a big fan of the disproportionate coverage it is getting in certain societies where being gay is referred to as being a sexual minority. This issue is a low hanging fruit for the west to pluck when it comes to blackmailing India. If they manage to build a huge gay-rights movement in India then they can use that crowd to dictate the outcome of electoral politics in India. I am sure that if an opportunist political party sees that they can get millions of votes (and millions of $ in lobbyist money) by being pro-gay then they will do it. Sashi Tharoor probably did it for the same reason.

I think, we should stop looking it as a sexual issue and look at its political implications. The west is trying to stitch together a multidimensional coalition of angry liberals who are anti-Indian culture, this includes all anti-social elements like leftists, muslims, christians, radical feminazis, sc, st, obc, and now LGBT. It's like pouring more and more explosives inside a pressure cooker. If we want to prevent this cooker from exploding, we need to let off steam from time to time. We have already enacted some pro-women bills and pro-transgender bills, these have largely pacified the respective crowds compared to the pre-December 16 anti-society rage that existed.

Now the pressure is building up again. The only way to stop this coalition from posing as a united front against Indian cultural values is to get these groups to collide with each other instead of clashing with the nation. Making the LGBT community feel that Abrahamic fundamentalists are blocking their freedoms is the quickest way to get them on our side. This is a large community with a world wide social media reach and massive lobby budget. It's in our interest to get them on our side. Convince them to use their propaganda machinery to help us build pressure on the sickular lobby to pass the Uniform Civil Code, in exchange offer them some LGBT rights.

Killing two birds with one stone.

Btw, @Agnostic_Indian the case of Shani devta is not the same as not allowing entry to dalits. This god is an deity of abstinence (Brahmachari) so it's an insult to the deity if women go there in the name of equal access. Just like a person wont be allowed to enter a mosque if he is holding pork in his left hand and beer in right hand. Just like Sikhs wont allow anyone to enter their Gurudwara without covering their heads. Learn something about religion before taking potshots at it.

 

[asingh10]

"Why does he have to be a Brahmachari if he cannot handle touch from opposite sex"-- modern Indian feminist!

"vegetarianism is an upper caste upper class heteronormative hindu male phenomena".

 

[sasum]

They can opt for IVF or adoption.

I wouldn't say that being gay is a disease but it is an aberration, like albinism. I'm not a big fan of the disproportionate coverage it is getting in certain societies where being gay is referred to as being a sexual minority. This issue is a low hanging fruit for the west to pluck when it comes to blackmailing India. If they manage to build a huge gay-rights movement in India then they can use that crowd to dictate the outcome of electoral politics in India. I am sure that if an opportunist political party sees that they can get millions of votes (and millions of $ in lobbyist money) by being pro-gay then they will do it. Sashi Tharoor probably did it for the same reason.

I think, we should stop looking it as a sexual issue and look at its political implications. The west is trying to stitch together a multidimensional coalition of angry liberals who are anti-Indian culture, this includes all anti-social elements like leftists, muslims, christians, radical feminazis, sc, st, obc, and now LGBT. It's like pouring more and more explosives inside a pressure cooker. If we want to prevent this cooker from exploding, we need to let off steam from time to time. We have already enacted some pro-women bills and pro-transgender bills, these have largely pacified the respective crowds compared to the pre-December 16 anti-society rage that existed.

Now the pressure is building up again. The only way to stop this coalition from posing as a united front against Indian cultural values is to get these groups to collide with each other instead of clashing with the nation. Making the LGBT community feel that Abrahamic fundamentalists are blocking their freedoms is the quickest way to get them on our side. This is a large community with a world wide social media reach and massive lobby budget. It's in our interest to get them on our side. Convince them to use their propaganda machinery to help us build pressure on the sickular lobby to pass the Uniform Civil Code, in exchange offer them some LGBT rights.

Killing two birds with one stone.

Btw, @Agnostic_Indian the case of Shani devta is not the same as not allowing entry to dalits. This god is an deity of abstinence (Brahmachari) so it's unnecessary for women to go there in the name of equal access. Just like a person wont be allowed to enter a mosque if he is holding pork in his left hand and beer in right hand. Just like Sikhs wont allow anyone to enter their Gurudwara without covering their heads. Learn something about religion before taking potshots at it.

Completely agree with the last para.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Technically yes. Unless this becomes a norm in the entire country, which might need state intervention. Few aberrations here and there due to some local traditions do not need state intervention.

Point is you are dragging this protest out of proportion. There are men specific and women specific rituals as well as temples all over India. We do not have to fall for fake equality in every respect.

Most probably SC will abolish the discrimination, it will be very unfortunate if it doesn't, but even if there is a set back sooner or later this discriminatory practice should be rooted out. " fake equality " is just a excuse word to satisfy and support your religious orthodoxy.



http://m.thehindu.com/news/national...-sabarimala-sc-to-devaswom/article8092924.ece

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Most probably SC will abolish the discrimination, it will be very unfortunate if it doesn't, but even if there is a set back sooner or later this discriminatory practice should be rooted out. " fake equality " is just a excuse word to satisfy and support your religious orthodoxy.



http://m.thehindu.com/news/national...-sabarimala-sc-to-devaswom/article8092924.ece

Of course, you forgot to speak anything about discrimination against men in religious rituals!! There is a mythology guiding these practices--some are open to men other to women. If there is any religion which has treated man-woman relationship holistically--it is Hinduism.

And btw, courts cannot dictate religious practices.