Seems Russia is still sulking from getting ousted from the MMRCA tender

[Armand2REP]

^^ More have been sold to other countries as well. Now France needs to stop this puppet dance with the strings it has attached with the Turbomeca/Snecma engines and let us sell these to Myanmar. It will mean still more money for France.

Sorry, but Burma is under EU arms embargo. Since ALH has many sourced components from Europe, that is a nonstarter.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Sorry, but Burma is under EU arms embargo. Since ALH has many sourced components from Europe, that is a nonstarter.

I just love the way you Europeans brag about your power and how we cant go beyond that, sooner than later we will make most of our stuff then it wont matter. Already we make a lot of our ships and we dont sell it to burma, unlike EU which sells stuff to Pakistan and CHina.

 

[pmaitra]

Sorry, but Burma is under EU arms embargo. Since ALH has many sourced components from Europe, that is a nonstarter.

Yeah, I already know that.

My point is European countries can make more profit if HAL-ALH sales go up by virtue of the sourced components. This was in reference to your earlier comment that it is good for Turbomeca. Especially since Myanmar is not a threat to Europe, they should simply give preference to money than politics.

 

[Armand2REP]

I just love the way you Europeans brag about your power and how we cant go beyond that, sooner than later we will make most of our stuff then it wont matter. Already we make a lot of our ships and we dont sell it to burma, unlike EU which sells stuff to Pakistan and CHina.

I just love the way you ignorantly brag about your power like you run the defence of Qatar when you only have a framework for anti-piracy and anti-terrorism cooperation. Simple fact is, India imports 70% of its arms and exports a trickle of defence products. You don't sell ships to Burma, we don't sell to Burma and no one sells to China. Glad we don't support oppressive regimes.

 

[Armand2REP]

Yeah, I already know that.

My point is European countries can make more profit if HAL-ALH sales go up by virtue of the sourced components. This was in reference to your earlier comment that it is good for Turbomeca. Especially since Myanmar is not a threat to Europe, they should simply give preference to money than politics.

We can make more profit selling to China for a day than we can in a lifetime selling to Burma. We don't do it because we don't support the oppression of their people.

 

[amitkriit]

We can make more profit selling to China for a day than we can in a lifetime selling to Burma. We don't do it because we don't support the oppression of their people.

Then why do you support autocracy in Middle-East? Problem is simple, nobody sells weapons to his own enemy. China is a threat to USA's interests in East and South-East Asia, so u don't want them to grow stronger militarily. This is called "western hypocrisy".....but well....whatever floats your boat.

 

[Armand2REP]

Then why do you support autocracy in Middle-East? Problem is simple, nobody sells weapons to his own enemy. China is a threat to USA's interests in East and South-East Asia, so u don't want them to grow stronger militarily. This is called "western hypocrisy".....but well....whatever floats your boat.

For that hypothesis to float, we would have to A) see Burma as a threat to our national security and B) support blood-thirsty ME dictators. We got sanctions and frozen assets on Assad's regime, when you push too far the hammer drops.

 

[mayfair]

If Russia as claimed refused to share Brahmos source codes with us, do we expect them to pull the same one with FGFA as well? How does that make them any different from USA, except for perhaps EULA, EUMA and CISOMA?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If Russia as claimed refused to share Brahmos source codes with us, do we expect them to pull the same one with FGFA as well? How does that make them any different from USA, except for perhaps EULA, EUMA and CISOMA?

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Russia objects to India plans to sell BrahMos missiles

Russia spat delays BrahMos air version - Indian Armed Forces - Zimbio
Russia spat delays BrahMos air version

Russia threatens to retain Brahmos source code | India Defence
Russia threatens to retain Brahmos source code

Russia's missile sale to Indonesia upsets DRDO, page 1
Russia's missile sale to Indonesia upsets DRDO

India, Russia spar over BrahMos missile air version - Hindustan Times
India, Russia spar over BrahMos missile air version

 

[civfanatic]

Lol, some Frenchies are still living in the 19th century. When will they realise that their country is utterly irrelevant in world politics?

If only they had some Mirage 2000s in 1940, they might have lasted more than a month.

 

[tony4562]

I just love the way you Europeans brag about your power and how we cant go beyond that, sooner than later we will make most of our stuff then it wont matter. Already we make a lot of our ships and we dont sell it to burma, unlike EU which sells stuff to Pakistan and CHina.

India makes ships, but those ships are packed with foreign components. Not sure if even the steel hull is 100% made in india as India apparently had to ask Russia for steel for construction of her 'indigenous' carrier.

Here is a run-down of the foreign compoenents that make up Dehli class destroyer:
Engine: Russia/Ukrainian gas-turbine
Half-plate radar: Russia
SS-N-25 Ashm: Russia
AK630 CIWS: Russia
AK100 maingun: Russia
SA-N-7 SAM: Russia
Barak SAM: Israel
RBU-6000 rockets: Russia
Sea King helos: UK

The current P17 class frigates don't fare any better:
Top-plate radar: Russia
Engine: French diesel + American gasturbine
Brahmos Ashm: mainly Russia (see Lethalforce post above)
AK630: Russia
Barak: Israel
SA-N-12: Russia
RBU-6000: Russia
76mm main gun: Italy
DTA-53-956 torpedo: Russia
Helicopter: Sea King (UK) or Dhruv (90% foreign)

The P17 class is newer than the Dehli class by a decade or two, apparently india's defence industry has not progressed much in real term during all that time.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I just love the way you ignorantly brag about your power like you run the defence of Qatar when you only have a framework for anti-piracy and anti-terrorism cooperation. Simple fact is, India imports 70% of its arms and exports a trickle of defence products. You don't sell ships to Burma, we don't sell to Burma and no one sells to China. Glad we don't support oppressive regimes.

Thats plain bollocks, show me any post here that says we run Qatars defense? We brag because you brag about how great you are, we tend to follow western attitude if you have not noticed that already. You people only respect power.

We could supply our weapons to burma if we choose to and if that means sanction on India, i would be the happiest person to see India chocking under sanctions and taking up complete indigenousation seriously. The post nuclear test sanctions helped India build a lot of her own technology and i want complete sanction on India. It would be doing a favor to a lazy bum government whose country has tremendous talent to stand up on its own.

Western countries dont supply arms to oppressive regimes? Unless you have been living under a rock, you must have known that France supplied fighters, guns etc, to Egypt, Pakistan and the west in general supplies arms to Saudi Arabia, North Africa. What is all that then?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

India makes ships, but those ships are packed with foreign components. Not sure if even the steel hull is 100% made in india as India apparently had to ask Russia for steel for construction of her 'indigenous' carrier.

Here is a run-down of the foreign compoenents that make up Dehli class destroyer:
Engine: Russia/Ukrainian gas-turbine
Half-plate radar: Russia
SS-N-25 Ashm: Russia
AK630 CIWS: Russia
AK100 maingun: Russia
SA-N-7 SAM: Russia
Barak SAM: Israel
RBU-6000 rockets: Russia
Sea King helos: UK

The current P17 class frigates don't fare any better:
Top-plate radar: Russia
Engine: French diesel + American gasturbine
Brahmos Ashm: mainly Russia (see Lethalforce post above)
AK630: Russia
Barak: Israel
SA-N-12: Russia
RBU-6000: Russia
76mm main gun: Italy
DTA-53-956 torpedo: Russia
Helicopter: Sea King (UK) or Dhruv (90% foreign)

The P17 class is newer than the Dehli class by a decade or two, apparently india's defence industry has not progressed much in real term during all that time.

Steel is from ESSAR steel, sad you tough of replying to an topic even without knowing that basic information. If i continue it would be mere education and not a discussion.

The Delhi Class is an older version, up coming Kolkata class has more ingenious technology.

IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR Multi-mission radar (Active Electronically Scanned Array)
IAI EL/M-2238 L-band STAR surveillance radar
BEL HUMSA-NG sonar
BEL RAWL-02 /Thales LW-08 D-band air search radar
BEL Nagin active towed array sonar,[2]
BEL Electronic Modular Command & Control Applications (EMCCA Mk4) combat management system

All of these including the Barak are joint developments, most countries like France and Britian do joint development. There is nothing wrong in that.

The Arihant will have missiles, Sonars made in India and the nuclear power plant will also be India. There was Russian consultation but then even the JSF had Russian consultation.

I am not here to claim India does everything by itself, i would fail in that argument right away but the argument here is that we are learning to make a lot buy ourself. These days in post cold war era vendors require their customers more than the customers require the vendor. When India floats tender it always chooses the best one for ToT and JV, thats shows the buyers has more choices and control. IAI is in JV with DRDO as well. So your western sanctions would not completely kill India. Even after the nuclear test sanctions with a lot of delays India made a lot by itself.

This does not mean we under estimate the value of our partners who are necessary but such threats of "we will cripple you if you dont obey" or "you cant live without us" fall in deaf years. If anything i welcome sanctions and your vain threats of saying we import 70% of our equipment is true but if any thing i think west will do India a big favor by putting sanctions on it and unleashing its hidden potential. It is only at times of challange that your complete potential is realized. So bollocks to anyone if they want to make threats, please do threaten us from time to time. It only motivates us more.

 

[BangersAndMash]

Russia's decision irks Indian Navy

Angry over the way Russia treated Indian warships that sailed to Vladivostok, the Indian Navy, in a report sent to the ministry of external affairs (MEA), expressed its displeasure with the cancellation of the drill.

Sources told Headlines Today that the navy said in its report that it was upset with the "highly unprofessional manner" in which the Russian Navy decision was dispensed.

The navy recommended that a government decision be taken on how to respond to Russia's snub. The tone of the navy's report says that Russia was a "fair-weather friend", a country on its best behaviour only when it gets big defence contracts for India.

It has also recommended that the idea of Russia being looked at as a "long-time strategic partner" be given a re-look since "close strategic partners do not treat each other this way".

Russia cancels war games with India, navy reacts strongly : North: India Today

 

[Raw-Fan]

Russians seems to be outraged by MMRCA deal.!

 

[pmaitra]

We can make more profit selling to China for a day than we can in a lifetime selling to Burma. We don't do it because we don't support the oppression of their people.

You can at most sell between 1-5 engines. After that, they will reverse engineer it and that's the end of the story.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India makes ships, but those ships are packed with foreign components. Not sure if even the steel hull is 100% made in india as India apparently had to ask Russia for steel for construction of her 'indigenous' carrier.

Your facts are wrong India is the 5th largest steel producer in the world why would they need Russian steel?? The double hull of arihant was made in India by L&T.

World Steel Association

Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV)
In 1998, L&T began fabricating the hull of ATV.By the time the first unit was launched in July 2009, the construction of the hull for the next one was reportedly already underway at the Larson and Toubro (L&T) facility at Hazira where the first hull was built.

 

[Yusuf]

Couple this with the recent Russian cozying up with Pakistan and we have a situation where Pakistan will be in a position to get weapons supplies for as long as it wants without the threat of sanctions.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Couple this with the recent Russian cozying up with Pakistan and we have a situation where Pakistan will be in a position to get weapons supplies for as long as it wants without the threat of sanctions.

If they BUY them. No gifting or soft loans with Russians. If Russia is selling to China pak is still accessing Russian weapons anyway. Better to wash our hands clean if we have too.

 

[Param]

We can make more profit selling to China for a day than we can in a lifetime selling to Burma. We don't do it because we don't support the oppression of their people.

Very few outside the west would buy this argument of west not selling to countries oppressing people. Its ultimately your interests that matter not stupid stuff like human rights. If you worry about oppressing so much stop the multi billion dollar trade with China.

Anyway you won't be making any money a few years after you've sold hi tech stuff to China. Their cheap reverse engineered copies would do away with your market share.