Saudi Arabia beheads Sri Lankan maid

pmaitra

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There is nothing other than Arab Culture in Islam.
You are correct, if you consider Wahhabism as Islam. Wahhabism is a rejectionist, medieval, and barbaric ideology. Look at Sufism, or for that matter Iran, and Syria, and their lifestyles, and you will realize that Islam has a nicer side as well. The question is whether we should give any credibility to Wahhabism. Wahhabis reject Sufism, Shias, Ahmadiyas, etc., but then, we too can reject Wahhabism. Russia, for example, had made Wahhabism unlawful. I had once listened to a comment by one Imam from a mosque in Tatarstan, Russia, and he said that human life is most important to him. Quite obviously, that ideology runs opposite to the fundamentalist ideology of the al-SWQ fraternity.

S - Saud - political and finance arm, W - Wahhab - theological arm, Q - Qaida - military arm, of this violent entity that is causing havoc in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bahrain, Syria, and Mali, to name a few regions.
 

Mad Indian

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Their country, their rules, their problem.

And trying to impose what "other" countries should be doing in "their" legal system is perfect example of "Cultural Imperialism".

Will India accept if Puk e istan advocates against death sentence for Kasab/Afzal Guru?:rolleyes:
 

pmaitra

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Their country, their rules, their problem.
Only the Western barren portion belongs to the Sunnis, many of whom are supporters of the Wahhabi ideology. The Eastern oil rich regions are mainly Shia, and they reject Wahhabi ideology. Ditto with most people of Bahrain. It is only due to US-Saudi hobnobbing that Iran is being cornered unnecessarily, so as to keep tabs on the Shias of KSA.

I think you should read about how the al-Saud family took control of most of the Arabian peninsula.
 

Mad Indian

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Only the Western barren portion belongs to the Sunnis, many of whom are supporters of the Wahhabi ideology. The Eastern oil rich regions are mainly Shia, and they reject Wahhabi ideology. Ditto with most people of Bahrain. It is only due to US-Saudi hobnobbing that Iran is being cornered unnecessarily, so as to keep tabs on the Shias of KSA.

I think you should read about how the al-Saud family took control of most of the Arabian peninsula.
I thought Saudi Arabia is full of Sunnis:hmm:. Anyway, are you saying that this incident was because of Sunni ideology in a Shia dominant place? If not,then what I said will hold true. If the people think that is their moral standards, who are we to impose on them something different?

And any good links about the Al-Saud family?
 

blank_quest

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Shia Islam is mostly Persian in culture, rather than Arab. Even Islam in India and Turkic nations, while mostly Sunni, contains a huge Persian influence. Even basic religious words like "namaz" (prayer) in Turkish and Urdu come from Persian, rather than Arabic (where it is called "salah").

In other places at the extremities of the Islamic World, like West Africa and Indonesia, there is also a huge influence of native culture on Islam.
why are you talking about native Influence on Islam? Hadith and Quran are not based on non-Arabic influence so if its ISLAM local customs will never precede over Quran or Hadith that are Arabic in nature. Sharia Law is based on Quranic and Hadith interpretation and not based on local customs. So, when ever we talk of Allowing of Beheading in Islam we will consider Quran and Hadith and not local customs.

This again sounds like justifying that Islam is not having beheading under Sharia Law ...
 

pmaitra

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I thought Saudi Arabia is full of Sunnis:hmm:. Anyway, are you saying that this incident was because of Sunni ideology in a Shia dominant place? If not,then what I said will hold true. If the people think that is their moral standards, who are we to impose on them something different?

And any good links about the Al-Saud family?
Not this incident, but I was talking about the bigger picture.

  • Iran is the centre of Shias, while KSA is the centre of Sunnis.
  • Saudi (read al-Saud family) gives oil to US, and also funds US politicians.
  • Iranians are proud of their Aryan and Persian heritage and hate Arabs.
  • Even Sunnis, such as Tajiks, Uzbeks, are proud of their Aryan heritage (some believe in pan-Turkic-ism).
  • KSA oil fields are in Shia dominated eastern regions.
  • Bahrain is Shia majority with Sunni ruler, who is puppet of KSA and US.
  • KSA has been spreading violent Wahhabism and trying to destroy Shias and Sufis (Syria, Mali, Pakistan, J&K, etc..).
  • Iran wants the oil wells of KSA to be owned by the Shias of the east, and sees the al-Saud family as a thief stealing the 'wealth of Shias.'

It is complicated, but you can see that within Islam, there is a power struggle between Iran and Saudi.
 

civfanatic

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You are correct, if you consider Wahhabism as Islam. Wahhabism is a rejectionist, medieval, and barbaric ideology. Look at Sufism, or for that matter Iran, and Syria, and their lifestyles, and you will realize that Islam has a nicer side as well. The question is whether we should give any credibility to Wahhabism. Wahhabis reject Sufism, Shias, Ahmadiyas, etc., but then, we too can reject Wahhabism. Russia, for example, had made Wahhabism unlawful. I had once listened to a comment by one Imam from a mosque in Tatarstan, Russia, and he said that human life is most important to him. Quite obviously, that ideology runs opposite to the fundamentalist ideology of the al-SWQ fraternity.

S - Saud - political and finance arm, W - Wahhab - theological arm, Q - Qaida - military arm, of this violent entity that is causing havoc in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bahrain, Syria, and Mali, to name a few regions.
Actually, Sufism and orthodox Islam are perfectly compatible. The differences between the two are only superficial; both have similar objectives and a similar theology. Even Saudi Arabia has produced and hosted notable Sufi scholars in recent years, like Muhammad Alawi al-Maliki and Abdallah bin Bayya.

The real opposition to Wahhabism and orthodox Sunnism comes from Shia Islam, which is abhorred by many/most Sunni Muslims (Shias included).
 

Mad Indian

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why are you talking about native Influence on Islam? Hadith and Quran are not based on non-Arabic influence so if its ISLAM local customs will never precede over Quran or Hadith that are Arabic in nature. Sharia Law is based on Quranic and Hadith interpretation and not based on local customs. So, when ever we talk of Allowing of Beheading in Islam we will consider Quran and Hadith and not local customs.

This again sounds like justifying that Islam is not having beheading under Sharia Law ...
Thats not entirely true- Indian/Paki Muslims still have castes(though Pakis and many Indian Muslims deny being converted:p)
 

pmaitra

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Actually, Sufism and orthodox Islam are perfectly compatible. The differences between the two are only superficial; both have similar objectives and a similar theology. Even Saudi Arabia has produced and hosted notable Sufi scholars in recent years, like Muhammad Alawi al-Maliki and Abdallah bin Bayya.

The real opposition to Wahhabism and orthodox Sunnism comes from Shia Islam, which is abhorred by many/most Sunni Muslims (Shias included).
You might be correct in the theoretical sense, but I have to disagree in the practical sense, given that Wahhabis destroyed Sufi shrines in Mali. There were also attacks on Sufi shrines in J&K, suspected to be done by Wahhabis.
 

blank_quest

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Thats not entirely true- Indian/Paki Muslims still have castes(though Pakis and many Indian Muslims deny being converted:p)
In India Mullah's have not got free hand like in Pak, Give some free hand to mullah's and watch the change and "true" realization of Islam in India.
 

Mad Indian

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Not this incident, but I was talking about the bigger picture.

  • Iran is the centre of Shias, while KSA is the centre of Sunnis.
  • Saudi (read al-Saud family) gives oil to US, and also funds US politicians.
  • Iranians are proud of their Aryan and Persian heritage and hate Arabs.
  • Even Sunnis, such as Tajiks, Uzbeks, are proud of their Aryan heritage (some believe in pan-Turkic-ism).
  • KSA oil fields are in Shia dominated eastern regions.
  • Bahrain is Shia majority with Sunni ruler, who is puppet of KSA and US.
  • KSA has been spreading violent Wahhabism and trying to destroy Shias and Sufis (Syria, Mali, Pakistan, J&K, etc..).
  • Iran want the oil wells of KSA to be owned by the Shias of the east, and sees the al-Saud family as a thief stealing the wealth of 'Shias.'

It is complicated, but you can see that within Islam, there is a power struggle between Iran and Saudi.
So long they are divided (which they will be), there will be peace on this earth for others:D

GO KSA GO....!!!! And GO IRAN GO....!!!!!

If I become the PM, I will sell weapons to both these countries at "subsidised" price- World Peace is very important:D
 
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pmaitra

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So long they are divided (which they will be), there will be peace on this earth for others:D

GO KSA GO....!!!!
What about peaceful educated Muslims? They are victims too. Do you not want them to live in peace?

I have a few Iranian friends here. They are really nice folks, but when we have conversations, despite being extremely polite, they betray their hatred for Arabs.
 

Mad Indian

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What about peaceful educated Muslims? They are victims too. Do you not want them to live in peace?

I have a few Iranian friends here. They are really nice folks, but when we have conversations, despite being extremely polite, they betray their hatred for Arabs.
1. Will Such "peaceful" minded fellows have such "peaceful" minded people as their leaders? Societies' leaders are nothing more than a reflection of the kind of people present there.


2, What about the people who are not related to their shit in any way, I mean people like "Indians", "Israelites", or any other non-islamic country for that matter? Do they/we not deserve a peaceful life?
 
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pmaitra

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1. Will Such "peaceful" minded fellows have such "peaceful" minded people as their leaders? Societies' leaders are nothing more than a reflection of the kind of people present there.
Is that a veiled accusation that moderate Muslims do not stand up to the Islamist nutjobs? Well, just look at al-Assad. What to do if the so called civilized west continues to support the worse of the two?

2, What about the people who are not related to their shit in any way, I mean people like "us-Indians", Israel, or any other non-islamic country for that matter? Do they/we not deserve a peaceful life?
What is "us-Indians?"
 

pmaitra

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I think the rebels/bandits in Mali also attacked Sunni mosques and historical monuments.
Yes, because they were a certain centimeters more than ground level and were built on Muslim Saints' graves.
@Yusuf, @SHURIDH, what is the exact measurement?
 
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Mad Indian

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Is that a veiled accusation that moderate Muslims do not stand up to the Islamist nutjobs? Well, just look at al-Assad. What to do if the so called civilized west continues to support the worse of the two?
Yeah. And there was nothing moderate about the democratisation there btw, which is what we right wingers have been saying for a long time- That moderate muslims is a myth - atleast, the statement that majority are moderates is . The real truth is moderates are the fringe elements in Islam. I think both Shias and Sunnis deserve each other for the greater good of the outside world. USA should play both sides indirectly, like the way Israel played in the Iraq-Iran war- I would:D

Also, remember that those people could have selected a moderate govt, but they dint! Did the supposed Moderates vanish by Magic?

What is "us-Indians?"
Sorry, I meant Indians. My mistake...
 

civfanatic

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why are you talking about native Influence on Islam? Hadith and Quran are not based on non-Arabic influence so if its ISLAM local customs will never precede over Quran or Hadith that are Arabic in nature. Sharia Law is based on Quranic and Hadith interpretation and not based on local customs. So, when ever we talk of Allowing of Beheading in Islam we will consider Quran and Hadith and not local customs.
True, the Quran and the Hadith are the products of Bedouin Arab culture. Thus, Sharia law is also the product of Bedouin Arab culture. And since Saudi Arabia is a country of Bedouin Arabs who remain an essentially tribal and medieval society, despite having tremendous wealth and resources in the form of oil, it is not surprising that such cases of brutality such as this beheading continue to take place.

But it would be wrong to assume that Islam in all places of the world takes the same shape and form as it does in Arabia. In the medieval Islamic empire of Mali, for example, it was common for many women, including the daughters of the sultan, to go about their daily lives completely naked. This astonished the Arab traveler Ibn Battuta, who visited the Mali Empire in 1352-53 during the reign of Mansa Suleyman I (r.1341-1360). Ibn Battuta came from a country where women were required to veil themselves and keep out of public life, so it is not surprising that he disapproved of these Malian practices. You can read about his description of Mali here: http://www.doralacademyprep.org/our...Ibn Battuta on Customs in the Mali Empire.pdf

The Mali Empire was an Islamic state, and as such, the law of the land would be Sharia law. But the law was also influenced by native customs and culture, and differed greatly from that in Arab countries. Even today, it is very uncommon for Muslim women in West Africa to wear the veil. It is sad that Mali, today, is now under attack by the Wahhabi menace.
 

Mad Indian

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It is sad that Mali, today, is now under attack by the Wahhabi menace,
^^^ Difference between "true" Islam and "polluted" Islam:bplease:
 

civfanatic

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^^^ Difference between "true" Islam and "polluted" Islam:bplease:
Maybe the Wahhabi and Salafi extremists would think so, but do the Malians themselves think they are following "polluted" Islam? The Iranians think the other way around, that their form of Islam (Ithna'ashariyyah Shi'ism) is the purest and that Wahhabis and Salafis are polluted. Who is right? Does it matter? I just wanted to show an example from history where native customs shaped the practice of Islam and application of Islamic law; there are many more such examples.
 

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