Saudi analyst claim Saudis have nuclear weapon

Discussion in 'West Asia & Africa' started by warrior monk, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Erdogan is constantly criticizing us policy these days. Saudi have showed their displeasure with USA publically on more than one occasion. It is clear that USA is at cross-purposes to saudi when it bombs isis.
     
  2. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    India also has proxies. Instead of big organization we have invested in individual from whom we benefit. Only thing you need to win wars is money. Why you want to develop proxies when you can just buy them.

    Remember one thing : Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.
     
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  3. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    ANALYSIS

    NATO is getting worried about a Turkish confrontation with Russia in Syria. Russian President Vladimir Putin is obviously trying to split the alliance by goading Turkey into a conflict over a Kurdish stronghold along the Turkish-Syrian border. NATO would be presented with a choice between supporting a member state or a war with Russia. Not supporting Turkey in such a scenario would be the end of the alliance, a day Mr. Putin dreams about. A war with Russia is not an option.
    “The armed forces of the two states are both active in fierce fighting on the Turkish-Syrian border, in some cases just a few kilometers from each other,” one NATO official says, according to Spiegel.

    Germany is especially concerned about the rising tension between Moscow and Ankara. “That would likely be tantamount to doing Russia a favor,” says one Chancellery official.

    NATO’s response depends on whether or not Turkey is seen as the aggressor. “NATO cannot allow itself to be pulled into a military escalation with Russia as a result of the recent tensions between Russia and Turkey,” says Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn.

    Again Spiegel reports, Should Turkey be responsible for escalation, say officials in both Berlin and Brussels, Ankara would not be able to invoke the NATO treaty. Article 4 of the alliance’s founding treaty grants member states the right to demand consultations “whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened.” Turkey has already invoked this article once in the Syrian conflict. The result was the stationing of German Patriot missiles on the Syrian border in eastern Turkey.

    The decisive article, however, is Article 5, which guarantees that an “armed attack against one or more of (the alliance members) in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all.” But Foreign Minister Asselborn notes that “the guarantee is only valid when a member state is clearly attacked.”

    “We are not going to pay the price for a war started by the Turks,” says a German diplomat.

    “Were the Russians to carry out a retaliatory strike against Turkey, we would have a problem,” says a NATO official. In such a case, Turkey could very well invoke Article 5. Were the North Atlantic Council to fail to achieve unanimity, Mr. Putin would once again have split the West, the official says.

    It is a given that the diplomatic channels are burning over the possibility of such a conflict. I would hope that President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry’s self-acknowledged superior diplomacy will win the day and this disaster of a scenario will not materialize.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/21/l-todd-wood-nato-getting-scared/
     
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  4. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    India has a habit of sleeping until it is too late. Luckily this time the resource base is quite large so it is not easy for anybody to challenge India. However be certain that India will take losses if an actual war starts. It will take time for India to stand up and confront.

    We need far more soldiers than we have now with much better equipment than we have now.
     
  5. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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    Nobody knows whose warheads are there even if they are actually present , all this may be Saudi false bravado.
    The point is it is unlikely that US has Saudi under nuclear umbrella and it doesn't matter how many warheads US has .
    First Saudis don't require large number of warheads as people in their neighborhood as not exactly nuclear powers except Israel .

    Presence of US warheads will have to under a program like NATO nuclear sharing agreement ,Saudis don't want to be seen signing such agreements with US (The great Satan) as it will not bode well with its wahabi ideology and the larger Sunni world while Pakistani warheads will be more than welcome as Pakistan has already christened it "Islamic bomb" . US congress till not allow such a move as it will be opposed by Israeli supporters.

    Saudis and other Islamic countries(Libya ) have financed Pakistani nuclear weapons program since 1974 to an unconfirmed amount the truth may never come out so it is not outrageous for Pakistan to help .

    Saudis would want some sort of operational control on those warheads like who to target which is unlikely they will get from a superpower like US . US would control everything for those warheads even who to fire upon and when to fire upon and what will be the nuclear red lines . It will be much simpler with respect to Pakistan.

    Saudis may want nuclear weapons not just against Shia Iran but against other countries (maybe Israel) US would never allow that , so it is better to depend upon Pakistan a fellow Sunni majority country.

    US and 5 other countries have negotiated with Iran for a nuclear deal which would curb the PMD (possible military dimensions) of the Iranian program for next 10 to 15 years atleast why would US take the risk of putting nuclear weapons in Saudi Arabia when it is possible that Iranian spies or Russian techint may find about this and it would force Iran to go nuclear and break the deal jeopardizing Israel , other countries around it and Europe which fears Iranian missile ranges.

    In 10 to 15 years time if hypothetically Iran decides to test a nuclear warhead (The current Ayatollah is old the new one might be more extremist ) it will put pressure on Saudis to test which will have to be a Paki warhead no way US is going to test again on behalf of Saudis . As the Radio chemical of the escaped gases if at all it escapes will reveal that its an American design putting pressure on Washington. There is no way in hell US is ever going to test on behalf of Saudis it will have to be Pakistanis.

    From the Pakistani point of view it is an brilliant plan as some of its warheads are stored in a safe and reliable place under their military control in an reliable and friendly foreign country like Saudi. Its like have the worlds best SSBN , let the Indians have their SSBNs we have Saudis and other sunni countries to hide our warheads making it very difficult for India even with a huge arsenal .

    All this may be false Saudi bravado but if its true apparently CIA thinks so it is more likely going to be Pakis than Americans .
     
  6. Bornubus

    Bornubus Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter Senior Member

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    Its time to dump our irrelevant no first use policy when Isrsal can exercise Samson option, how can we stick around with NFU.

    Pakis will transfer their nukes to KSA in case India tried tries a pre emptive nuclear strike.We should make it clear at least un officially that Entire Muslim world especially Macca will be our legitimate target in case our forces are attacked with Paki nukes.

    This is also an effective deterrent against Tactical Nuke Nasr which could hold our forces conducting punitive action or any step to recover POK.
     
  7. SREEKAR

    SREEKAR DEEP STATE Senior Member

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    There nothing breaking here!!
    I already said Saudi must have got nukes by paying $$$ to jihadi pakistani.
    And these whores gave away nuke. Look something big gonna happen and that will be brute to humanity.
    Nukes in hands of World''s retarded people ain't good Idea.
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    For some reason I can't see Saudis and their circus they call an alliance (except turkey)
    Having the balls to make a difference in Syria.
    In many ways I think Russians want an escalation to smash the savages back to the stone age.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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    There is no need to change our NFU policy but we should tweak our nuclear policy it with something like
    "Anybody found helping ,sheltering or hiding Pakistani nuclear weapons in their country and in case of hostilities between India and Pakistan and if it went nuclear then that said country will be taken as an aggressor against India in this conflict and India will use its nuclear weapons on that country irrespective of its nuclear weapon status".

    Ways to overcome this Pakistani move

    1) Changing our nuclear policy to the said effect with additional clauses

    2)Developing Space based infrared satellites , satellites under 30 cm resolutions (We can do that ) with multi GB/sec download speed , collect huge amount of geospatial data, SAR satellites (Which we already have in "c" and "X" band) NASA and ISRO are also working on Next generation SAR satellites .

    3) Develop Techint and humint capabilities with Israel to monitor on military movements and missile tests in middle east .

    4)Have a maximalist position as far creating fissile material is concerned to give us options for a massive counter attack anywhere .

    5)Increase the number of SSBNs (We are already making 6 to 9) but it is not enough for a credible second strike.

    6) Fast track our BMD program and work with US , Israel etc US has already approached us and may have pitched their systems and construct large solid state phased array radars for MIRV tracking

    7)Integrate all the space and land based systems data in all the spectrum with the intelligence collected through humint ,sigint etc to give an unparalleled information for our Leaders and armed forces .
     
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  10. rockey 71

    rockey 71 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Like the Saudis Iran could have acquired nukes under Bhutto or Zaradri - both Shiahs. Half of the NATO / US nukes held in Turkey are exclusive Turkish property under the terms that they have with NATO/USA.
     
  11. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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    Yeah if you think Paki PMs are controlling the nuclear weapons then you are naive my friend . Paki if they ever transfer it will be to Saudi Arabia not Shia Iran .
    Those B61 are currently only in US control and they can be used only if Turkey is attacked by nuclear weapons from Soviet union and if the Red army invades then Turkey has options . After the demise of Soviet union there need has probably been reduced.
     
  12. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    USA and Russia would not go to direct war, ever. If it is one thing history has taught, it is this. The Russians and the Americans both dream of world domination, they are willing to share this world if it is convenient for them to do so. Unless one gathers the strength of annihilating the other with absolute certainty (a very rare possibility), there will only be proxy wars.
    Also note, the US armymen consider Russians their brothers in arms. Although same is not the case for Russians. It is not like India - Pakistan scenario. They don't hate each other that much. They just don't want each others interference.

    There is no need to officially dump NFU. When time and circumstances come, we will use first.
     
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  13. Bornubus

    Bornubus Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter Senior Member

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    This is an indirect way of saying that Macca would be a legitimate target, since it is the only country where Pakis will hide their Nukes to save them from preemptive strike.

    I think we already have Spy satellites which can monitor entire Pak in real time IMO this was the reason why we de commissioned the only reconnaissance Jet MIG 25

    Adding to your points we should also tried to induct long range Rocket artillery with 150 + km with GPS like chinese Weishi Rockets to neutralise NARS, which our Satellites can pinpoint 24/7
     
  14. DEJAVU

    DEJAVU Regular Member

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    [QUOTE="warrior monk, post: 1137937, member: 15552]Nothing as Iran is a nuclear recessed state now after JCPOA . If they test Saudis will test their Paki warhead to give izzat to the Sunni world .[/QUOTE]
    But as per pendustan pakistan dont have nukes and it has chinese nukes or may be korean so you trying to say that chinese or koreans give saudis nukes?

    Very intelligent.
     
  15. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are 5 US military bases in Saudi Arab now. These bases and the American soldiers in there guarantee the de facto nuclear protection already.

    You don't need the presence of US warhead within your border to prove their nuclear umbrella.

    Unfortunately, Pakistan has even more problems in transferring the control of her nuclear weapon to Saudi Arab. The store of her nuke is not only monitored by US, but also China.

    Unless Pakistan wants to risk of losing all her nuclear weapons, she won't go that far. It was not easy for Pakistan to calm American and Chinese down last time when they found what Khan did.

    Providing nuclear umbrella doesn't mean you need to put a nuclear bomb in Saudi Arab. Besides, a nuclear umbrella means 2 things: one, it is totally defensive, Saudi can't threat anyone with it; two, you will stop pursuing your nuclear weapon.

    Iran is not North Korea, they can't afford the price of being isolated by the world.

    There is one problem in your argument: they will have great difficulty to get their warheads back before the end of war. Once the war starts, Indian navy will try to block all her ports.

    Sometimes, CIA also lies intentionally.
     
  16. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Any nuclear bomb used in war by any party will shatter the npt regime.

    It will have grave consequences as many countries race to acquire nuclear weapons in the name of security.
     
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  17. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Is Saudi really under american nuclear umbrella?
     
  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    No look at map below for details

    [​IMG]
     
  19. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    @no smoking, what are 5 american bases in Saudi Arabia not counting training troops.
     
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Riyadh is the main one others are "welcoming" bases US has access as needed.
    The other welcoming base is in Turkey.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016

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