SAARC Tanks: No Agreements Signed After Pakistan's Objections

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
Such an accusation of Pakistan paralyzing SAARC to justify China's entry is unfounded.

Rather than on the multilateral SAARC, India could have done it on bilateral basis for integration of energy grids and connectivity free from Pakistan's "objection". In the regard of connectivity China is moving ahead with Nepal (e.g. railway), and BD respectively overland, outside of SAARC. Such an agreement is merely paperwork, more tokenism of "solidarity" than substance. In fact India's started a lot in Nepali hydropower projects (PSA). Can't blame your own inaction on others.
I agree with you. The SAARC is a meaningless entity. It always was.
The cooperation will go on bilaterally.

We shall know when Pakistan is on-board. Pretending that relations are normal when they are not does not help any party.

I do not care about China's influence in South Asia. We want regional integration anyway, so any link built by Chinese is positive for us.

India wants trade as much as other countries in the region.
 

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
Pakistan deliberately sabotaged the agreement considering their interest in Afghanistan. Pakistani policymakers perceived that Indo-pak bilateral issues wont get resolved in their lifetime so why allow other countries and India the benefit to use Pakistan's infra to reach Afghanistan.
POK's geography has made Pakistan so bold, Pakistan is playing cards sitting on our land. POK is the SAARC's land link to Central Asia and Europe. Even China's interest in Pakistan will vanish if India reclaim POK.

India must start pursuing POK so that Pakistan realize it's potential as nothing but a failed terrorist state.
Honestly no agreement was expected in this meeting. It was well known before the meeting. You may ask why the meeting happened then??

Because it is important to know the view of others even if there is no agreement. It is important to understand the logic of other's actions. + India wants to exchange views and see what is possible.
 

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
Getting Electricity from India is a bilateral issue, where signing an agreement means Pakistan has to adhere to the uninterrupted connectivity. Pakistan is more concerned about Indian Trucks reaching Afghanistan than making money from trade and commerce, job, tax collection and so on.
Yes. The free flow of trade in South Asia was the most important objective of SAARC. When Pakistan does not allow wheat to be transported overland to Afghanistan, then the whole purpose of SAARC is defeated.

Pakistan wants to sell its goods in India but has a problem with transit trade.

That is what I said before, no point pretending situation is normal when it is not. Best to accept the reality and move on.
 

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
It's stupid to assume all members would take it as "benign". Every member of course has its own "logic" to act in its own interest. That's why multilateral coordination is often hard.

Don't sound menacing as if it were a sin not to buy anything u sell.
This is why the Indian PM went to the meeting - to listen to other heads of State. I hope you understand that the meeting happened despite the knowledge that an agreement will not be reached.
 

hit&run

United States of Hindu Empire
Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
14,104
Likes
63,370
It's stupid to assume all members would take it as "benign". Every member of course has its own "logic" to act in its own interest. That's why multilateral coordination is often hard.

Don't sound menacing as if it were a sin not to buy anything u sell.
Yea we know your pet will take every thing as malignant if there is India leading the narrative.

There was nothing in those agreements that were being sold as new to Pakistan.India and Pakistan are already connected via roads and rail with regular traffic crossing each other. There had been already efforts to sell electricity to Pakistan but every time they were being pulled down by their fanatic ******s. They failed to reciprocate MFN to India because they were never able to subdue internal pressure and paranoia.

We are connected with Bangladesh and even better with Nepal now. Take your stupid playing devil's advocate to Pakistan forum and earn some thanks over there.

Chinese dictation to Pakistan might have been to create mild irritation but Pakistan was as usual impulsive to make even Chinese position awkward. When in near future you Han will gain back the sanity you will realize how stupid your friend Pakistan is.
 
Last edited:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
"Uniting" Pakistan and Bangladesh will result in a thorough destruction of India

increased people to people connectivity with Pakistan+Bangladesh will Destabilize India

here, we do know how partition of India occurred in 1947, and how India always face increase in Islamic Terrorism from these 2 neighbours of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. then how do we get this type of news? over 1,000,000 deaths occurred due to Hindu-Muslim-Sikh riots, mainly because of aggressive Muslims based in Pakistani Punjab and Bangladesh regions, who are now separate countries as Pakistan and Bangladesh now....

we have news of growing activities of Indian Muzahidin in north east region due to increased Islamic fanaticism from Bangladesh, very frequent. and the way population of these two countries have been increased to 200million and 180million respectively, minorities of these two neighbours are almost gone, only Shia-Sunni-Ahmadi riots in Pakistan is the news now, while united Bengali Muslims against its minorities is also discussed in the thread as below..... then, how do we see this type of news?


i never trust this Modi, who always look like either a duplicate man or a man with corrupted mind to work in behalf of rouge neighbours, who might have full support from US in this regard too. most probably a Bangladeshi intelligent agent, i think.....
//defenceforumindia.com/forum/internal-security/63875-bangladeshi-criminal-gangs-new-challenge-delhi-police-4.html

Pakistani Secularism

yesterday i read a news of Ms Hina Rabbani Khan while talking about secularism of Pakistan and while giving reference of raid of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan, i discussed few questions as below:-

1st: is Pakistan a country who would be informed by the US's marine for the above operation? they just made a stealthy raid for the hunt of Osama Bin Laden. why? and its a common sense for the whole world....

2nd: Pakistan's foreign minister talk about secularism about the country, Pakistan, while is there any country of world who is surprised if OBL is found near Pakistani Military Camp? do you think someone from rest of the world would be surprised on this type of news, why OBL was found enjoying luxury life in a military town of Pakistan?

3rd: and if its informer was sent on life imprisonment for spying of OBL by the Pakistani Judiciary, is it something unusual where OBL was regarded as a God's man, message of Islam, while he was the most wanted terrorist for rest of the world?

4th; minorities of Pakistan are almost gone, only Shia-Sunni-Ahmadi riots in Pakistan is in news now. on the other hand, population of Hindus in Bangladesh have been reduced from 30% in 1947 to below 10% at present, continuous attacks on the Buddhist+Hindus minorities there is also a news, very frequent.
while on the other hand, population of Hindus in India reduced from 88% in 1947 to below 80% at present, which does state about the "secularism" structure of India as whole, a 'non-religious' country....

5th: how many terrorist plots being planned in world, which aren't linked with Pakistan? i mean, is there any terrorist plots against any part of world, whether US or UK or Xinjiang state of China, including India, which isn't linked with Pakistan? and here, are the people of world get surprised if we always find someone from Pakistan arrested for these plots?

6th; with these facts, only threats we find in India, for the way these two rogue neighbours have changed their way of practice. "Indian" Muzahidin like Azmal Kasab coming from Pakistan, with Hindu type Red Stings on hands, is now the biggest challenge imposed on India, the nation. how to tackle this type of 'Indian' Muzahidin Hindus coming from Pakistan+Bangladesh. while growing activities of Indian Muzahidin in North East region, because of the Bangladeshi infiltrators there, is also very frequent...


from here, why is it wrong if we talk to defend India from these two rogue neighbours of India? how would we allow these Islamic fanatic people in India, who will only try the same in India, which they have done in Pakistan+Bangladesh? why would there be any reason for destruction of India, the nation, whether its secularism of whatever?
@Ray
 
Last edited by a moderator:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
@santosh10, you are a very informed person. Your posts contain a lot of truths. Your basic premise that population of Muslims has exploded compared to Hindus is true of entire South Asia. The reason is number of children in Muslim households are much higher. Most Muslims remain illiterate and do manual labour or low skilled work. The situation in South Asia is very complicated and there are no easy solutions.

Power of conviction always wins in the long run. Our civilization has survived so long despite odds, and will surely survive in future. There is very bright time for India after 2025. We are now in tough times and the tough time will continue for several years.

Modi is the right leader for these times. He works very hard, is very committed and is very focused.

Foreign Policies/National Issues don't change with any certain Political Party

hmmm, im agreed with all you said, except accepting Mr Modi as a right or wrong person, whatever. :wave:

i dont favor or against Modi or Rahul or Mulayam/Mayawati etc., but intention of my last post is to highlight the national issues, which are the same for any ruling party of India.

Foreign Policies/National Issues don't change with any certain Political Party

i mean, i won't hesitate to put even Rahul, Mulayam, Mamata, Jayalalitha, etc in the category of a spy of Bangladesh or Pakistan, if any of them work in behalf of these countries to destroy India for the same reason, for this type of acts.

your support for Mr Modi might be having a type of 'trust' aspect for this newly elected leader, but my statement is to target whoever would do something by this type of steps to destroy the country, we and our families are based in :thumb:

:india:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
indeed words of wisdom by @santosh10 seriously, no flatter, esp. "foreign policy doesnt change with party" (or Modi whirlwind) due to no fundamental alteration in the equation. but true - Modi is more pragmatic and more result oriented with a landslide majority in yr parliament . China IMO prefers to deal with such a leader despite his cosmetics of tough rhetoric or posturing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
indeed words of wisdom by @santosh10 seriously, no flatter, esp. "foreign policy doesnt change with party" (or Modi whirlwind) due to no fundamental alteration in the equation. but true - Modi is more pragmatic and more result oriented with a landslide majority in yr parliament . China IMO prefers to deal with such a leader despite his cosmetics of tough rhetoric or posturing.

look, National Issues never change with any political party, you can't just destroy this part of the world for any 'pragmatic' approach :nono:

we can't let this part of world get destroyed, where we and our families are based in :gun:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
@santosh10, the Modi government is approaching each issue in a positive frame of mind. This is necessary as we live in a democracy where we have to bring people on-board. Our political system is different from China or Pakistan even.

India wants to focus on development and security at the same time while giving preference to development.

Mr Modi believes that fast developmnent of India is best recipe for increasing security of the State.

I think we cannot containerize India. It is not possible to seal India from neighboring States. If Bangladesh is in problem, that problem will spill over into India. It is necessary for India to have influence in Bangladesh, as well aid Bangladesh in its development.

India has to play big role in South Asia. There is no option.

We have to view China's developmental assistance positively (though there may be negative security aspects), as economic development of the region is net positive for India.

We cannot be obsessed with only security issues. This kind of policy simply does not work.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
@santosh10, the Modi government is approaching each issue in a positive frame of mind. This is necessary as we live in a democracy where we have to bring people on-board. Our political system is different from China or Pakistan even.

India wants to focus on development and security at the same time while giving preference to development.

Mr Modi believes that fast developmnent of India is best recipe for increasing security of the State.

I think we cannot containerize India. It is not possible to seal India from neighboring States. :tsk: If Bangladesh is in problem, that problem will spill over into India. It is necessary for India to have influence in Bangladesh, as well aid Bangladesh in its development.

India has to play big role in South Asia. There is no option.

We have to view China's developmental assistance positively (though there may be negative security aspects), as economic development of the region is net positive for India.

We cannot be obsessed with only security issues. This kind of policy simply does not work.

look, what we can do and can't do, its a national issue, and security is the first priority of India, the nation.

we dont want shiits from these rogue neighbors of India, but we welcome any country of world, whether US or UK, who offer Visa on Arrival for Bangladeshi infiltrators, to reduce our security burdens :thumb:

we can defend ourselves, its true :india:


International Laws: as per the International laws, which favor to shoot down/destroy any incoming object/person coming towards the International border before reach at a certain distance, which doesn't stop after few warnings. as it may have destructive materials which may be harmful to the country, of concern. and once it reach a certain distance even after few warnings, the defending country is allowed to use whatever arms it has, to defend itself.

and yes, we as a nation can well destroy/remove any incoming threats to our society :india:

with that, we favor direct citizenship for the Bangladeshi and Pakistani people for US and its allies, if they want this in their country. but we dont want the shiits :wave:

IM growing stronger in northeast, Bangladesh

NEW DELHI: Even as National Investigation Agency (NIA) has linked the Bodh Gaya blasts to Assam, intelligence agencies have found that Indian Mujahideen (IM) may have grown strong footprints in the north-east and Bangladesh. In fact, agencies have credible information that IM played a significant role in providing relief to displaced Muslims in the June 2012 Bodo-Muslim riots in Assam. :ranger:

Sources said during the 2012 strife, IM operatives used the network of certain mosques to mobilize funds from across the Hindi heartland and certain other areas to Assam to help victims from the minority community.

"There are reports of them having developed contacts with some religious groups in Assam and their activity has been significant in areas such as Dhubri. They have also developed footprints in Sylhet region of Bangladesh and are suspected to have developed pockets of influence in Myanmar-Bangladesh border region through LeT," said an intelligence official. :ranger:

"The objective of participating in relief operations in Assam seemed to be aimed at creation of an IM constitution and radicalization of Muslim youth at the wrong end of justice in the state," he added.

Notably, NIA investigations have found that the Lotus brand clocks used in the Bodh Gaya blasts were bought from a shop in Assam. Investigations also point out that these clocks were bought about a year before the blasts. That was precisely the time that riots broke out in Assam and relief operations were underway.

Arrested IM operatives Syed Maqbool and Imran Khan had revealed to investigating agencies in October last year that Bodh Gaya was one of the targets of IM to avenge atrocities on Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar. Though these developments point to an IM hand behind the July 7 blasts in Bodh Gaya, agencies say it could be a confluence of different forces including disaffected Rohingya Muslim groups which have been on the radar of groups such as LeT for recruitment.

Significantly, the Rakhine Buddhist-Rohingya Muslim confrontation of last year, which has been the trigger for a larger Buddhist-Muslim confrontation in several parts of Asia, had coincided with the Bodo-Muslim confrontation in lower Assam.

Intelligence agencies had then expressed fear that Rohingya refugees could add another insurgency to an already volatile mix of Assam. It was also said that the outflow of Rohingya refugees could lead to stronger contacts between Myanmar Muslims and regional Islamist militants. Such militants could recruit disaffected Rohingyas to their own cause.

"It is difficult to pinpoint any group at the moment as several forces have motive to harm Buddhists or their symbols. Though we have found that 13 clocks were bought from a shop in Assam, we cannot yet be sure if they were the same clocks used in the 13 bombs placed in the Bodh Gaya temple complex. We have also found evidence of some 50 Lotus clocks bought from another place. Why would a bomber buy exactly 13 clocks for 13 bombs? Why not more for contingency," asked an NIA officer.

//timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IM-growing-stronger-in-northeast-Bangladesh/articleshow/21608922.cms

IM growing stronger in northeast, Bangladesh - The Times of India
=>
BSF gives list of 66 terror camps to Bangladesh
March 09, 2014

Shillong: The BSF has handed over a list of 66 camps of north-east insurgents to the Border Guard Bangladesh, seeking actions against them.

"We have requested our counterparts in Bangladesh for cooperation in dismantling the camps of insurgents from the region. We have handed over a list of 66 camps that exist in Bangladesh," Sudhir Kumar Srivastava, IG, BSF Assam Frontier, told reporters here on Sunday. :ranger:

The list was handed over at the 3-day bi-annual Inspector General level meeting of border management and coordination held from March 6 at the headquarters of Meghalaya Frontier of the BSF here.

The camps belonged to ULFA and NDFB (anti-talks) of Assam, PLA and KYKL of Manipur, NSCN (IM) of Nagaland besides those of the Tripura's NLFT and Meghalaya's HNLC and ANVC-B, the BSF official said.

Brig General HabibulKarim, Region Commander North East Region, who led a 20-member delegation from Bangladesh, had assured actions against those camps located all along the northern parts of Bangladesh, Srivastava said.

The inspectors general of Meghalaya, Assam, Tripura, Mizoram and Cachar frontiers of BSF officials attended the meeting along with an official representative of the Ministry of External Affairs.

"The meeting was held in a cordial atmosphere and discussed many issues like better border management, tackling smuggling of banned cough syrup Phensydyl and fake currency and reducing border crimes and dacoities," he said.

BSF also requested for early solution of disputes regarding erection of barbed wire fencing in some patches of the border, especially the single row fencing, he said.

Tripura, Meghalaya, Mizoram and Assam share a 1,880-km border with Bangladesh.

BSF gives list of 66 terror camps to Bangladesh | Zee News

//zeenews.india.com/news/south-asia/bsf-gives-list-of-66-terror-camps-to-bangladesh_916837.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Free Karma

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
2,372
Likes
2,600
We have to view China's developmental assistance positively (though there may be negative security aspects), as economic development of the region is net positive for India.
.
How does China react to even scouting for oil in what they perceive as "their" neighbourhood. Surely economic development is good for everyone :lol:
 

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
@santosh10, the Modi government is approaching each issue in a positive frame of mind. This is necessary as we live in a democracy where we have to bring people on-board. Our political system is different from China or Pakistan even.

India wants to focus on development and security at the same time while giving preference to development.

Mr Modi believes that fast developmnent of India is best recipe for increasing security of the State.

I think we cannot containerize India. It is not possible to seal India from neighboring States. If Bangladesh is in problem, that problem will spill over into India. It is necessary for India to have influence in Bangladesh, as well aid Bangladesh in its development.

India has to play big role in South Asia. There is no option.

We have to view China's developmental assistance positively (though there may be negative security aspects), as economic development of the region is net positive for India.

We cannot be obsessed with only security issues. This kind of policy simply does not work.
@Ray

Mr, we can defend ourselves, and destroy/remove every threats to our society. there are too many options :india:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
We cannot be obsessed with only security issues. This kind of policy simply does not work.
One has to understand what is Comprehensive National Power which takes into account indices both military factors (known as hard power) and economic and cultural factors (known as soft power).

To believe that one outweighs the other or is redundant would be fallacious and thus, flawed.

To believe that soft power is the be all and end all of a Nation's progress is being short sighted. if not being blind.

Let me give an example right out of India.

Can there be development in the Maoist belts if there is no security of life and limb and a safe environment to apply oneself?

It is always essential to have a secure environment so that one can be focussed on issues that enhance the 'soft power'.

We have to view China's developmental assistance positively (though there may be negative security aspects), as economic development of the region is net positive for India.
Assistance from any nation is most welcomed.

However, it must be on India's terms for genuine progress and not becoming economically enslaved.
 
Last edited:

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
@Ray said:

One has to understand what is Comprehensive National Power which takes into account indices both military factors (known as hard power) and economic and cultural factors (known as soft power).
To believe that one outweighs the other or is redundant would be fallacious and thus, flawed.
Yes you are correct. The idea is that security policy should not sacrifice economic goals and vice versa.
It is unlikely that Chinese will come all out to start projects in India. The Chinese intentions look like showoff or "balancing" India's influence in South Asia as one Chinese poster said.

I would want to keep Chinese engineering firms at arms length anyway, as security implications of their involvement in the underbelly of India are not well understood.
Chinese are funding some projects in Nepal and Bangladesh etc. Nothing much can be done about that. A country that built the great wall is hard to stop. In these days of air travel, borders are not good enough to stop people.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

brational

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
1,223
Likes
2,644
Country flag
I think instead of focusing on SAARC we should eiher carry out bi-laterally or through BIMSTEC (SAARC minus Pakistan , comprising Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Myanmar, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Thailand )...

The China-Pak problem: PM Modi must put SAARC on the back burner
Bangladesh is an emerging threat. India's Policymakers must try to keep Bangladesh away wherever possible. We will not gain anything by doing business with Bangladesh rather than ending up with few million more Bangladeshis entering in India.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
I think instead of focusing on SAARC we should eiher carry out bi-laterally or through BIMSTEC (SAARC minus Pakistan , comprising Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Myanmar, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Thailand )...

The China-Pak problem: PM Modi must put SAARC on the back burner
One has to have the SAARC, even though it may appear that it does not work. Let it not work.

Bilateral actions that help those who are being helped, shows up the Joker in Pack who does not want to act as a Team member.

Shows the Nation that wants to help and integrate with all in good light.

Great for the image and moral ascendancy.

Bangladesh is an emerging threat. India's Policymakers must try to keep Bangladesh away wherever possible. We will not gain anything by doing business with Bangladesh rather than ending up with few million more Bangladeshis entering in India.
I wonder if BD is a threat.

It is important to ensure your flanks are secured. Hence, BD should be brought under the wings to the extent feasible.

An open flank is most dangerous to security.
 
Last edited:

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top