Rustom 2/TAPAS/BH-201 MALE UAV News Updates and Discussions

[Kshithij]

http://spacenews.com/u-s-military-gets-taste-of-new-satellite-technology-for-unmanned-aircraft/

read this it's talks a little bit about bandwidth

But is it practical in large scale? I know that satellites can be used but in times of war when maybe a hundred drones are operating, how to use satellite?

 

[charlie]

That's a quote from a different article, whose link you did not provide.

My thinking is that for real time application geo stationary satellites (35,000+kms high) would not be suitable - due to the round trip delay. Low earth orbiting satellites (~100 kms high) are more suitable. US military has a constellation of such satellites for real-time operations (if application is mere data/file transfers then latency is not a problem).
India currently does not have a constellation of low earth orbit satellites. Having one or two does not work because LEO satellites are over the target area just for an hour or two!

I have no life if i continue doing this but I googled one more link for you http://www.milsatmagazine.com/story.php?number=1649213816

Please go through it

I think you missed it I did provide you a link.

Anyway your thinking about geo stationary is completey wrong but that is something basic and I am not going to debate on that you can google and learn.


all wide beam are GEO, GSAT are GEO. Read about Wideband Global SATCOM owned by US goverment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_29e

 

[charlie]

But is it practical in large scale? I know that satellites can be used but in times of war when maybe a hundred drones are operating, how to use satellite?

yes it's practical in large scale environment.

What do you mean by hundred of drones ? you mean all of them feeding data through satcom I am not sure what will happen then again a lot depends on scenario like location, which satellite and how many satellite is covering that area, what kind of mission it is.

to be honest I didn't understand your question properly and I don't know what will happen if 100's of drones are deployed in just one area all sharing data through satcom, I think it's a very unlikely situation and if it's happens lot of people will get fired for sure. I don't think they will even wait for your debriefing.

 

[Enquirer]

I think you missed it I did provide you a link.

Anyway your thinking about geo stationary is completey wrong but that is something basic and I am not going to debate on that you can google and learn.


all wide beam are GEO, GSAT are GEO. Read about Wideband Global SATCOM owned by US goverment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_29e

The latency involved with geo stationary satellites are governed by basic principles of physics and not anyone individual preference!!! You obviously cannot debate on that!
Please don't throw up wikipedia stuff and pretend to be a subject expert!!!
Please to learn about what 'real time' operations are. Data transfers are different!!

 

[charlie]

The latency involved with geo stationary satellites are governed by basic principles of physics and not anyone individual preference!!! You obviously cannot debate on that!
Please don't throw up wikipedia stuff and pretend to be a subject expert!!!

I give up. lol it's all good bro.

I work with real time ISR video distributed over MANET but none of that matters now.

And yes, you are right I am not an expert and I have lot's to learn. I strongly agree with you on that.

 

[patriots]

http://idrw.org/tapas-bh-201-rustom-ii-program-to-be-accelerated/#more-174951

now drdo is saying user trial in 2020......

...........................,.....,..........

 

[Armand2REP]

Don't get offended but how do you know US uses same system or I did't understand what you are talking about , I am assuming that you are saying that UAV is sending video back to the ground controller and then it's redistributed right ? if that is the case then what you are talking about is termed as dinosaur in US, Because of the ISR mission module a solider can receive video downlink directly from UAV and via cross-banding redistribute it via MANET to all player in Battlefield SA. This is happening in real time by the way.

ISR mission module can be attached directly to riflemen radio or can be tethered via cable.

Because Thales makes their system and they make the French system as well. JTRS is what the US Army currently uses. Your post about Harris is what special forces use and hope to get and is not what the regular army has.

 

[charlie]

Because Thales makes their system and they make the French system as well. JTRS is what the US Army currently uses. Your post about Harris is what special forces use and hope to get and is not what the regular army has.

JTRS is a program it's not a protocol or waveform.

By the way what we are talking about is a completely different I am talking about a module that's just fits behind the radio an ISR module and if it's a legacy radio then they just use cable to work with radio.

there were single channel mulitband radio only the problem was solider had to carry 2 radio's instead one but the capability was there but the situation change with new RF 335M-STC with 2 channel capability.

link from 2010 https://www.harris.com/press-releas...actical-radio-system-program-integrate-falcon

Under JTRS programs harris won $3.9 in 2015 for rifleman radio for every solider on the field, I am giving you companies report not some 3rd part press report.
https://www.harris.com/press-releas...ation-39-billion-rifleman-radio-idiq-contract

Gone are the days when GD and Thales won the low rate production contract, GD can't match harris so now thales joined with Harris to produce rifleman radio in full rate production.


7800 M manpack talking about upgrading waveforms without changing hardware @3.15

Manpack used to receive feed from UAV without any additional equipment for
Falcon III® AN/PRC-117G(V)1(C)


I can post a lot of things but I have to be careful not get carried away even though I am not an employee of Harris anymore and I am posting what's available on the internet it's still a federal issue.

 

[charlie]

Because Thales makes their system and they make the French system as well. JTRS is what the US Army currently uses. Your post about Harris is what special forces use and hope to get and is not what the regular army has.

on the funny note we all heard about this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8419147.stm

 

[charlie]

But is it practical in large scale? I know that satellites can be used but in times of war when maybe a hundred drones are operating, how to use satellite?

I found some nice info regarding WGS or any wide band satellite, Because of phased array they WGS satellite can do a spot beam which can focus on a particular area to provide more bandwidth.
This video show and talks about communication and drone feed in real time on WGS and use of spot beam (WGS are GEO by the way)

This video show concept to avoid jamming in WGS network.

yesterday I sent you link which was talking about issue they had with seamless transition from one spot beam to another
"An unmanned military aircraft in mid-August took off from a test facility in North Dakota on a 1,075 nautical mile trip. Its mission was to show whether it could travel seamlessly across spot beams on a satellite without losing contact.

Why is this noteworthy? Military surveillance drones typically communicate via satellites that have wide beam coverage so the aircraft always stays in the same footprint. Newer satellites have multiple high-powered spot beams, each covering narrow geographic areas. The challenge for the unmanned airplane was to switch beams in flight at about the 600 mile-point.

The beam-switching test was organized by unmanned aircraft manufacturer General Atomics Aeronautical Systems and communications satellite operator Intelsat. It took place near the Grand Forks Air Force Base. A MQ-9 Reaper (also known as Predator B) switched between two spot beams on an Intelsat EpicNG high-throughout satellite."

 

[charlie]

look at this video for people who think that Military over the world use dedicated satellite for comms.

The panel is discussing about the last WGS satellite that means all the comms satellite in the future will be commercial in US, they will still have military satellite but not WGS type only.

 

[abingdonboy]

http://idrw.org/tapas-bh-201-rustom-ii-program-to-be-accelerated/#more-174951

now drdo is saying user trial in 2020......

...........................,.....,..........

Not too far away and Rustom 2 will be a game changer.

Already look at the systems they are indigenuously Developing for this UAS; ELINT/SAR payload, E/O pod, not to mention all of the flight control systems, data links etc.

One thing DRDO has proven is that once it has broken through in one area they quickly build and bring out revised systems based on that foundation. So whilst Rustom’s development may have been painful it will be worth it in the long run, remember India is largely starting from scratch in most areas.

There are multiple projects that will benefit from this work. Knowledge is never wasted.

 

[Enquirer]

Few interesting questions that arises about Rustom 2's capabilities (would be great if it had these...):

- If the range for LOS communication is 250kms, then can Rustom/Tapas be programmed to fly to longer distances (say 500 or 1000 kms), survey over a designated area, record the data and then fly back into the LOS region of the ground station in order to download the recorded data?
- If Rustom/Tapas does fly beyond 250 kms (in a pre-programmed fashion) from where it cannot transmit live data to ground station (because it's out of LOS), then can that Rustom/Tapas (that's out of LOS) relay its data to another Rustom/Tapas (that's in its LOS & and is also in LOS of the ground station)? Effectively the ground station can see live data from a Rustom/Tapas that's 500/1000 kms away, relayed via an intermediary Rustom/Tapas!

Remember that Rustom/Tapas will have fuel to aflight for 24hours!! So technically it can fly looooong distances....
Also a Rustom/Tapas once airborne will have another airborne UAV in LOS for another 500-750 kms easily (depending on the flight altitude)!

 

[cyclops]

From DRDO News letter.

 

[vasusuman]

I can't comment on military technology.But in commercial shipping, we have been using high speed internet for quite some time, when out at sea thousands of miles.We just need to install Satcom receiver and associated modems.This allows seafarers to watch videos just as you get this on land via data cables.Earlier the cost was exorbitant but from last few years it has gone down drastically and most of the ships have it.Some ships have internet speed is controlled to allow for voice call and surfing only and some ship owners allow video streaming, depending on how much cost they can bear.

 

[Enquirer]

I can't comment on military technology.But in commercial shipping, we have been using high speed internet for quite some time, when out at sea thousands of miles.We just need to install Satcom receiver and associated modems.This allows seafarers to watch videos just as you get this on land via data cables.Earlier the cost was exorbitant but from last few years it has gone down drastically and most of the ships have it.Some ships have internet speed is controlled to allow for voice call and surfing only and some ship owners allow video streaming, depending on how much cost they can bear.

Satellite based broadband Internet has been available even for domestic consumer use for more than a decade now! Nothing new there.
High Internet speeds are possible but issues of latency for round trip is still pertinent, depending on what kind of satellite was in use (LEO or Geo)

 

[abingdonboy]

Few interesting questions that arises about Rustom 2's capabilities (would be great if it had these...):

- If the range for LOS communication is 250kms, then can Rustom/Tapas be programmed to fly to longer distances (say 500 or 1000 kms), survey over a designated area, record the data and then fly back into the LOS region of the ground station in order to download the recorded data?
- If Rustom/Tapas does fly beyond 250 kms (in a pre-programmed fashion) from where it cannot transmit live data to ground station (because it's out of LOS), then can that Rustom/Tapas (that's out of LOS) relay its data to another Rustom/Tapas (that's in its LOS & and is also in LOS of the ground station)? Effectively the ground station can see live data from a Rustom/Tapas that's 500/1000 kms away, relayed via an intermediary Rustom/Tapas!

Remember that Rustom/Tapas will have fuel to aflight for 24hours!! So technically it can fly looooong distances....
Also a Rustom/Tapas once airborne will have another airborne UAV in LOS for another 500-750 kms easily (depending on the flight altitude)!

That's doable but why do that? Why rely on LOS? RUSTOM-2 will have SATCOM

 

[Enquirer]

That's doable but why do that? Why rely on LOS? RUSTOM-2 will have SATCOM

For the love of facts, please read official reports. Do not speculate.
Rustom-2 is designed for LOS communication only. There's no SatCom link in the UAV.
One can argue all day why SatCom is better, but the fact remains that it doesn't exist in the current design! That's why the range is limited to 250kms.

 

[abingdonboy]

For the love of facts, please read official reports. Do not speculate.
Rustom-2 is designed for LOS communication only. There's no SatCom link in the UAV.
One can argue all day why SatCom is better, but the fact remains that it doesn't exist in the current design! That's why the range is limited to 250kms.

RUSTOM-2 SATCOM:

This isn't space-age tech, India has mastered every element of this and has the entire closed loop under its control.

 

[Enquirer]

RUSTOM-2 SATCOM:

This isn't space-age tech, India has mastered every element of this and has the entire closed loop under its control.

The issue is not if the tech is complex or easy. The issue is if Rustom/Tapas design team has opted for this or not!
The fact remains that Rustom/Tapas design at this point has opted for LOS - either to due the projection that a dedicated satellite will not be available or for some other reason.
ECIL is not part of the Rustom/Tapas workcenters. Any company can offer it's product line to be assimilated into another product design - but the decision to include or not will remain with Rustom/Tapas designers!!
It's not uncommon for various companies (from all over the world) to put out a poster/brochure on how their product can become part of UAV/FighterJet/Tank etc....

Why wouldn't you read Focus feature on Rustom/Tapas written by DRDO's own team (link & extract already posted in this thread by me & another member), instead of speculating based on extraneous babble?