Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pak-FA

J20!

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

true.but offering such a sensitive tech....hmmm..

not advisable
No need to stress; Russia always specified directly after the T50's first flight that PAK FA and its derivatiives would be mainly focused on the export market.

800 out of the 1000 projected production jets where for foreign sale, and the Indian govt must have been aware of that position when they signed up for the programm.
 
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SajeevJino

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

why India Didn't learn the Lesson from Groshkov Deal
 

jmj_overlord

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

there's no point waiting for the russians if this is the case.........either focus on amca or.........maybe on f 35, if US is willing for sales........
 

happy

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

hmmmmm, russia first violated its many rulers when it was agreed to share its most of the best technologies with india in this front line aircraft of world, by involving india from even design phase of this project, like how they have history of full tech transfer to india of many defence arms. and i dont think Russia will be left with any key technology in aircraft industries, which it hasn't shared with india :ranger:

china has been even cloning the russian aircrafts, and russian technologies were always a dream for china for a century. but its a valid noise by the indian side if russia does the same type of favor with brazil too. but here we need to think more than that as, we do need those 'like minded' countries with whom we may fund any big projects in future too, like 6th gen aircraft/ next gen submariens etc. once brazil will come in the category of the country which may produce a frontline aircraft like pak fa, they will then think for the same type of 'home production' of those western equipments, which they never produced by themselves. until brazil finds its worth going for pak fa, in place of US's F35, which would also come in production from 2020 onward, they won't join us.....

we first need to make Brazil using the home made defence equipments like russia-india. :truestory:
India's work share in the research and development and other aspects of the project at the moment is only around 15 percent, even though New Delhi is investing 50 percent of the cost, the news agency cited officials from the Indian Air Force (IAF) as saying.

India believed to be unhappy with share of work in FGFA- report | Russia & India Report
Sir, if the above quote is true, then India certainly would not be happy with Russia. What would be your take on that?
 

hello_10

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

Sir, if the above quote is true, then India certainly would not be happy with Russia. What would be your take on that?

look, PAK FA's technologies certainly have the best of russia, true. but brazil will also have the option of US's best F35 from 2020+ too, even if they will not get access to US's techs. but here, we are looking for a partnership for the big projects we will have in future too. do you think India is capable enough to fund a PAK FA type project on its own?????? even if china is going on 5th gen J20 on its own, they have enough to spend from the back door........

but here we would like brazil to behave like india, who would always be responsible for the secrets. china is definitely anti-US, india is also somehow-someway remained on the other side. india was never part of any NATO"s peace war in any part of the world, and joining india-russia will suddenly put brazil in the same category. that is, if not anti US like china then at least not in US's team in their any war efforts in this world, including political/economical/ direct wars etc. brazil does have this attribute to challenge US on time to time, but they lack the spirit by a big margin, which china and russia has, and india also maintain the same little bit to an extent....

having own home project does come with a price. it will be delayed. it will be of little low quality, obviously, as now you are doing something by yourself, while the US's arms have 50+ customers world wide, almost all the NATO members fund it. it will result in losses of military men as the arms generally fails during tests too. it will result in more waste of money during design and development cost, while you do know that it is still little low quality than that of US's ones too. while the same you may buy from the US directly..... and how much brazil is willing for doing something on its own, they will have to decide first :thumb:
 
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Decklander

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

India is a 50% partner in JV and contributing for the 50% cost. There is no way that Russians can bypass India and make unilateral offers to any nation for this aircraft. Even in Russia, a veto is granted to a partner if he has 30% stake, so what Russia has done is that they have completely ignored India in this. IMHO, what Russia has done is that they have completely humiliated India by offering this aircraft to Brazil without even consulting India.
India must pullout of this deal asap as in any case Chinese will have the tech jointly developed from Indian funds thru backdoor. We shud stop trusting Russia and shud move on.
 

drkrn

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

look, PAK FA's technologies certainly have the best of russia, true. but brazil will also have the option of US's best F35 from 2020+ too, even if they will not get access to US's techs. but here, we are looking for a partnership for the big projects we will have in future too. do you think India is capable enough to fund a PAK FA type project on its own?????? even if china is going on 5th gen J20 on its own, they have enough to spend from the back door........

but here we would like brazil to behave like india, who would always be responsible for the secrets. china is definitely anti-US, india is also somehow-someway remained on the other side. india was never part of any NATO"s peace war in any part of the world, and joining india-russia will suddenly put brazil in the same category. that is, if not anti US like china then at least not in US's team in their any war efforts in this world, including political/economical/ direct wars etc. brazil does have this attribute to challenge US on time to time, but they lack the spirit by a big margin, which china and russia has, and india also maintain the same little bit to an extent....

having own home project does come with a price. it will be delayed. it will be of little low quality, obviously, as now you are doing something by yourself, while the US's arms have 50+ customers world wide, almost all the NATO members fund it. it will result in losses of military men as the arms generally fails during tests too. it will result in more waste of money during design and development cost, while you do know that it is still little low quality than that of US's ones too. while the same you may buy from the US directly..... and how much brazil is willing for doing something on its own, they will have to decide first :thumb:
wrong.just by giving a hitech jet,which brazil is currently no in dire need,doesn't bring them into same level of india and russia.as on now their threat levels are low.south america is peaceful atleast for now.even if they have 5th gen aircrafts from russia,what would make you think that they will stay with you?what if america gonna give them another (counter) offer.
brazil do not share same interests with russia as india does.
sure given a chance brazil will definitely buy pakfa,but it is not worthy to offer them currently even before the prototypes are not ready and indian-russian needs are not met.am i wrong with this??

brazil do not want to fight usa.they wish to maintain their independence from usa influence.
you were saying brazil is being offered to join nato or some defence projects??
 

drkrn

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

India is a 50% partner in JV and contributing for the 50% cost. There is no way that Russians can bypass India and make unilateral offers to any nation for this aircraft. Even in Russia, a veto is granted to a partner if he has 30% stake, so what Russia has done is that they have completely ignored India in this. IMHO, what Russia has done is that they have completely humiliated India by offering this aircraft to Brazil without even consulting India.
India must pullout of this deal asap as in any case Chinese will have the tech jointly developed from Indian funds thru backdoor. We shud stop trusting Russia and shud move on.
has russia officially announced the offer?
 

happy

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

@pmaitra, @Decklander Sir, t-50 prototype was already flying by the time india inked the jv. Isn't it true?

In that case, why is India investing 50% of the cost? OR is t-50 and fgfa completely different in terms of technology and design?

If both are same, why did we go into a jv for development after a prototype is already ready?

@hello_10 sir, i would value your take also on the same questions from the russian perspective.
 
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happy

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

wrong.just by giving a hitech jet,which brazil is currently no in dire need,doesn't bring them into same level of india and russia.as on now their threat levels are low.south america is peaceful atleast for now.even if they have 5th gen aircrafts from russia,what would make you think that they will stay with you?what if america gonna give them another (counter) offer.
brazil do not share same interests with russia as india does.
sure given a chance brazil will definitely buy pakfa,but it is not worthy to offer them currently even before the prototypes are not ready and indian-russian needs are not met.am i wrong with this??

brazil do not want to fight usa.they wish to maintain their independence from usa influence.
you were saying brazil is being offered to join nato or some defence projects??
I think brazil will be willing to involve just to get hands on the tech. It already has involvement in the f-35, so no harm done to know what russia is cooking under the sleeve at close quarters.
 

happy

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

According to what we know, we don't yet have any kind of agreement with Russia regarding FGFA because the final R&D contract is yet to be signed. But we do know that Russia has been making noises about PMF or FGFA being the export version of PAKFA.

So once we have signed the contract and some details are out, only then can we know if it is actually violating any of our agreements.
Sir, are you sure about that?. Because there may not be info in the open.? Also at this link India believed to be unhappy with share of work in FGFA- report | Russia & India Report it says India is investing 50% of the cost. Is it possible to start investing without contract being signed?
 
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p2prada

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

Sir, are you sure about that?.
You can drop the sir.

Because there may not be info in the open.? Also at this link India believed to be unhappy with share of work in FGFA- report | Russia & India Report it says India is investing 50% of the cost. Is it possible to start investing without contract being signed?
As of today we have only signed a $295 Million PDC. R&D contract is yet to be signed and the release of funds will come after that. So we will simply need to wait for more information.

IAF may be pushing to sign the FGFA contract before elections too, same as MRCA. So we will need to wait and watch. If the contract is delayed, then it will create other problems, especially cost.

The thing is our R&D institutes need to prove to Sukhoi that they are capable of handling the FGFA contract. The current 15% (possibly agreed by both parties) doesn't seem enough. They may be pushing for 25% or higher.
 

IBSA

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

FX Program has been stopped after the spionage's scandal. Next year there are Presidential elections and no decision on fighters purchase shall be taken. In the best case, the fighters' choose will be in 2015.

I like of Russian offer. Russia and India are our partners on BRICS group, and the T-50 is a chance for Brazil to have top technology in the sector. We have already purchased the Russian air-defence missiles and this is a good time to increase our military cooperation with Russians.
 

drkrn

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

I think brazil will be willing to involve just to get hands on the tech. It already has involvement in the f-35, so no harm done to know what russia is cooking under the sleeve at close quarters.
no country will be having its hands on f-35 technology.only they will get the end product,if everything occurs as planned.
that's the point that interests me.why is Russia offering Brazil to join in production of a new aircraft based on pakfa when they actually don't need to.
 

drkrn

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

FX Program has been stopped after the spionage's scandal. Next year there are Presidential elections and no decision on fighters purchase shall be taken. In the best case, the fighters' choose will be in 2015.

I like of Russian offer. Russia and India are our partners on BRICS group, and the T-50 is a chance for Brazil to have top technology in the sector. We have already purchased the Russian air-defence missiles and this is a good time to increase our military cooperation with Russians.
this is good for brazil in long run.
 

drkrn

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

@hello_10
i saw in wikipedia that russia offered to develop a next generation fighter based upon t-50.what does it mean.are they developing fgfa?or 6th gen ac?
 
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IBSA

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

this is good for brazil in long run.
i think it too. Issue is if Brazilians neta will have strategic view of long-run

Amrikans offer is if Brazil buys Super Hornet, futurely they will offer F-35 for us

And about the Rafale fighter, Brazil is observing attentively the India's steps. If India choice for Rafale does right, Brazil may choose Rafale too.
 

drkrn

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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

i think it too. Issue is if Brazilians neta will have strategic view of long-run

Amrikans offer is if Brazil buys Super Hornet, futurely they will offer F-35 for us

And about the Rafale fighter, Brazil is observing attentively the India's steps. If India choice for Rafale does right, Brazil may choose Rafale too.
so as on now you don't have f-35 offer in hand.so no need to expect it from america before they depoly a 6th gen ac.
 
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Re: Russia to Offer Brazil Stake in Future Advanced Fighter Project Pa

India is a 50% partner in JV and contributing for the 50% cost. There is no way that Russians can bypass India and make unilateral offers to any nation for this aircraft. Even in Russia, a veto is granted to a partner if he has 30% stake, so what Russia has done is that they have completely ignored India in this. IMHO, what Russia has done is that they have completely humiliated India by offering this aircraft to Brazil without even consulting India.
India must pullout of this deal asap as in any case Chinese will have the tech jointly developed from Indian funds thru backdoor. We shud stop trusting Russia and shud move on.

Russia does this on every deal with india they have the attitude that India will always be a buyer
I have not seen one deal with russia that went smoothly either on price agreed or delivery time.
Russians are corrupt and so are the Indians buying their goods so it is a good match from indian
Govt point of view but many higher ups in the services would definitely disagree.
 

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