Russia to develop naval missile defense system

[p2prada]

P2P what is the your source of information on 2x32 cell VLS for P-15A , I mean any thing authentic from MDL or IN that would be interesting indeed ?

No, nothing from our sources in India.

Everything from Pack Leader.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-navy/36568-naval-barak-8-missiles-israel-india.html

aster 30 is a big very expensive missile that has limited ABM capability
Barack 8 is cheaper ( 10 : 1 ) range and can only engage aircraft / cruse missile
you can fit Barack 8 on much smaller ships
the Kolkata Class guided-missile destroyers will carry between 64 and 80 missile ready to fire
the germen lsc next gen Israeli naval fighter will carry 32 missile ready to fire

we tested a live bramos( without warhead ) form India
with Indian cooperation in acceptance trails 3 months ago
2 tests done 4 to go

after 2 tests we have a 90% hit to kill with 1 missile per aggressor and 99% with two
bramos is a great missile i wish we could buy a few
but Gabriel 5 will have to do

Barack 8 has a parabolic look down self guide mode that is unique tech
sea skimmers are very easy pray from this position
if the ship radar can detect an approximate position before hand

officially Barack 8 is slower then bramos but only officially
rule off thumb Russia always exaggerate by 10% and Israel always hide 10% off real capability
mf star (my baby) can track bramos for frigate mast from 50 km away
and from destroyer mast 80 km away
the dual pulse motor made in India is your first world class truly indigence military product well done

MF STAR is a solid state electronically scanning aesa radar with 4 panels
similar to the American spy 1f radar
there are two versions a small one for frigate and a big one for destroyer
ship detection 500 km
warplane detection 200-300 km
tracking up to 3000 targets simultaneously
attacking 16 targets simultaneously
has hive capability to lead other fire units (from other vessels )

So, we have a great source right here. No problems.

Barak-1 is really geting old CIWS for new ships we need to move to more modern stuff with IIR/ARH guidance and capable of intercepting supersonic missile.

PL answered this. If it showed capability against Brahmos, it is good enough for anybody.

Better than IIR would be mmW guidance. I think Barak 8 comes with ARH, dunno the frequencies it works at, but I guess it would be at 12-18GHz like Aster.

 

[Austin]

Sorry but I would take any claims from PL or any one claiming to be working for this or that with a bag full of salt , have come across many on the internet in the many years i have spent on boards.

Any thing from MDL , DRDO , Navy or even OEM ( IAI ) would be welcome.

 

[p2prada]

Sure thing. We can wait, and I don't think we have to wait for very long either. Max a year before official news is out.

 

[Austin]

From some one who has seen the actual model of P-15A and the cells in that , it would have 48 Barak-8 LR SAM.

Barak-8 would be a very good missile when dealing with high manouvering air breathing targets ( subsonic and supersonic ) and dealing with saturation attacks , certainly any thing better than IN has right now.

Here is a good article on 9M96 missile which would arm the Gorshkov class frigate

MilParade.ru | #32 | RUSSIAN ═DESERT FOX═ HUNTERS

 

[p2prada]

Yeah. I have read about 48 from BR's article on the P-15A. Models don't have to be exact replicas anyway. 48 missiles would mean it will have a Barak 1 type of cell structure. That's 6 X 8.

Anyway, this is the model of a P-15A.

If you notice the red box, there are 16 cells there, like the Barak 1 structure with 2 x 8. The one near the Heli hangar or around that area should have another 16. So, I don't know how they got the 48 number either.

This is the Barak 1 SAM on INS Mysore.

Here we can see 32 of them.

INS Delhi

with the Shtil with 44 missiles on both.

So, we can expect similar positions for SAMs as on Delhi class. However we can't count Barak 8 on the P-15A as just 16 missiles because of imperfections on models. We can instead count them as at least 3 different cells of 8 each at the front and the aft to satisfy the 48 number. If we can have 3 cells(for 48 missiles in total), maybe we can have 4(like on Mysore for Barak 1 but with larger space in the front and the aft instead of the sides = 64 missiles) or even 5(=80 missiles). This we will know with either an official release or real pictures of the finished ship.

A 3 cell system for 48 missiles seems highly unlikely. A 4 cell system for 64 seems more likely. A 5 cell system, as unlikely as the 3 cell system. Nobody likes odd numbers.

Add that to the 32 Barak 1 CIWS and we have a 96 missile capability. Or we can have only 32 Barak 8 missiles like on the Model with just 2 cells and complain about not have enough ready to fire missiles.

This is only my observation.

 

[Austin]

I doubt those models will be imperfect as those are official MDL model and the other stuff like Brahmos VLS are true as well which is 16 AShM.

So it could be 32 Barak-8 which is not a small number of LR SAM ....I would check with the person who says its 48.

CIWS would be standard AK-630M and Barak-1.

These Missiles would be very expensive and hence they would like to get the optimum number , so any where between 32 - 48 is decent enough of SAM.

 

[p2prada]

I doubt those models will be imperfect as those are official MDL model and the other stuff like Brahmos VLS are true as well which is 16 AShM.

What I mean is the model we saw may not be the final model of the ship.

It could be an initial model based on an older design of the ship. Information warfare.

Maybe 16+16 is true and not 48, or 64 or 80.

 

[Austin]

The ship design wont change since this is what have been displayed and confirmed from many sources.

What might change though is the VLS arrangement for Barak-8 it may get higher number of VLS then 32 we see in the model.

I wont be too concerned as the Ships Missile SAM capability would be atleast 32 Barak-8 + 64 Barak-1 = 96 SAM , thats a big number of SAM in ready to fire launchers.

 

[p2prada]

What might change though is the VLS arrangement for Barak-8 it may get higher number of VLS then 32 we see in the model.

Yeah. This is what I meant. After all the cells are just a tiny piece of plastic glued to the ship.

I wont be too concerned as the Ships Missile SAM capability would be atleast 32 Barak-8 + 64 Barak-1 = 96 SAM , thats a big number of SAM in ready to fire launchers.

How did you get 64 Barak 1s though? INS Mysore has 32. I think it is quite the same for our Frigates and Destroyers until now.

Will P-15A have 64? If that is the case then in case Barak 8 cells are actually 64 that would be 128 missiles in ready to fire mode.

Edit: Maybe you mean 32 Barak 1s and 32 Barak 8s. That's still a big number. But smaller than what's on Delhi class or even the Chinese Type 052C with 48 HHQ-9s.

 

[p2prada]

Chinese Type 052C SAM launchers.

Front of the ship, below the bridge. 36 missiles in total.

12 in total at the rear. 48 in all.

If these guys found the space for 48 of these extra large missiles, I am pretty sure we can find enough space for 64 on a larger ship like the P-15A.

 

[p2prada]

Now, this is how it should be,

Slava class cruiser. 64 S-300s in one place. Bad news for any aircraft.

It has as much firepower as 2 of our Delhi class destroyers. Count the S-300 in and the Delhi class won't even compare.

 

[Austin]

Edit: Maybe you mean 32 Barak 1s and 32 Barak 8s. That's still a big number. But smaller than what's on Delhi class or even the Chinese Type 052C with 48 HHQ-9s.

What i was told is 48 Barak-8 ( 24 + 24 ) in VLS and 32 Barak-1 although the latter was not something i was told but i compared to Delhi class.

48 or 64 Barak-8 , P-15A would be a radically new ship as far as it electronics , weapons and other fittings goes in the evolved hull design of Delhi class.