Russia-Pakistan Rapproachment

sgarg

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Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Ukraine's MIC will find it hard to function without Russia as it was tightly integrated with Russia's MIC. You may think Ukraine's turbine without realizing that Russia may be importing parts from Ukraine and vice versa.

Ukraine conflict has negative consequences for both countries. And this is the precise reason why West has started this conflict - to hurt Russia economically. West does not care about Ukraine which is just a sacrificial goat.

India will find it very hard to support equipment sourced from Ukraine if Russia-Ukraine trade completely dies up.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

I don`t think their is any issue except Russian amrs lobby at MOD ..

Beautiful upgrade plan sir,Just a question how reliable Ukrainian defence equipments are ? What stop Indian to ask Ukraine to help us in armoured vehicles.
@reply sirji
 

sgarg

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Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

@Kunal Biswas, I do not think Russian lobby works with this government. However India may shun Ukraine due to conflict.
 
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Poseidon

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Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

A military diplomatic source in Moscow told IHS Jane's that Pakistan is also interested in buying a batch of Mi-28NE 'Havoc' attack helicopters and that a Russian delegation is preparing to present data on the Mi-28NE as well as the Pantsir-S1 (SA-22), Tor-M2KM (SA-15), and Buk-M2 (SA-17) surface-to-air missile systems to Pakistani officials at the forthcoming International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi.

http://www.janes.com/article/46315/pakistan-russia-sign-defence-co-operation-agreement-discuss-helo-sales
 

ladder

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re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Can they (Russia) bring in certain systems to IDEAS 2014 for display and then say those systems are not offered to the host even if they are not and targeted at other countries participating in the show?

Niceties should be maintained.

Example, Why would Russia offer Buk SAM system when it is reported that Pak recently signed contract with China for HQ-16? Point to ponder?
 

sgarg

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re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

These are the segments which Russia has lost in India. Attack helicopters will be non-Russian in Indian service. Indian Akash SAM is very successful, so similar Russian SAM is not needed by India. The long range SAM will come from Indo-Israeli joint project. The short range SAM is also going to be non-Russian. Russia needs new markets for its products, so they must be exploring opportunities with Pakistan.

It could be more though as Russia may want to build new relationships in middle east. Generally Pakistan is seen as a bridge to certain middle eastern countries.

These are interesting times as the world is polarising in ways not hitherto thought of.
 
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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Air Force and army are two segments Russia will lose in the future. Navy is lost as we'll
As any missile programs.
 
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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Tht dsnt matter...wat matters is thy selling it to our foe...wat if thy will establish intellgence gathering treaty btw thm....disaster for us
They know india will no longer be giving big orders so they are chasing crumbs in Pakistan.
Ethics and morality are not important to Russians.
 
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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Tht dsnt matter...wat matters is thy selling it to our foe...wat if thy will establish intellgence gathering treaty btw thm....disaster for us
We can also provide knowledge of russian weapons to their enemies. If you want to screw somebody
Expect to be screwed back.
 
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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Again..i m conerned abt intellgence info..n do u think tht russia will supprt us in conflict as it did in 71
That will not happen again and we do not need to overstate their role. Many russian military
Members I spoke with claim that it was not their intention. But india twisted the story
They were doing routine pursuit in their sub of us warships during the Cold War? More
Important let us be strong enough not to need anybody.
 
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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Will thy supprt pak with their arms or nt in any conflict
Are they selling weapons to Pakistan not to be used? Countries don't spend
Billions for nothing(or take credit). I will give Pakistan credit they will be getting
Free weapons from Russia while india overpaid for decades.
 

Poseidon

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

There is nothing to be concerned about the SAMS but MI-28NE is interesting
 

Blackwater

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

It's a lollipop which they will accept and dance on Russian tunes
 

Sylex21

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Everyone has seen this as a move vs India's growing closeness with America. I think the timing is curious right after India announced that Obama will be the Chief Guest of the Republic Day Parade. Curious if anyone has taken another angle and things this might be a balancing move against China. Where Russia having many concerns with China (had to meet Chinese below market price on the $400B gas deal, concerns over unpopulated Russian east next to Chinese population centers, China not settling on a permanent boarder with Russia, but only signing a 20 year agreement etc...). Anyone think it could be Russia, trying to balance and improve its influence over any potential Chinese allies?
 

no smoking

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

China not settling on a permanent boarder with Russia, but only signing a 20 year agreement etc...
Better to check your information before making any comment, the border issue between China and Russia was settled PERMANENTLY!
The 20 years agreement is all about gas deal!

Anyone think it could be Russia, trying to balance and improve its influence over any potential Chinese allies?
Improving its influence? Of course, the Russians want to improving its influence over any country it could. That is what big powers do.
Balance its influence over potential Chinese allies? For what? Pakistan is welcoming any assistance to enhance its position standing against India. Chinese is welcoming any help to improve Pakistan which will reduce Chinese expense in return.
 
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Sylex21

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Better to check your information before making any comment, the border issue between China and Russia was settled PERMANENTLY!
The 20 years agreement is all about gas deal!



Improving its influence? Of course, the Russians want to improving its influence over any country it could. That is what big powers do.
Balance its influence over potential Chinese allies? For what? Pakistan is welcoming any assistance to enhance its position standing against India. Chinese is welcoming any help to improve Pakistan which will reduce Chinese expense in return.
The 20 year clause was something I heard in a Statfor video, but I'll have to get back to you on the info. Perhaps I misunderstood or it was before the 2004 agreement. I was asking if anyone took it as a balancing act against China or any other alternative ideas, to stimulate alternatives in the conversation. Because Russia feels insecure in it's alliance to China. The Soviet Union always played "big brother" to China, and now the situation has somewhat reversed. In the game of great power politics, even allies jostle with one another, positioning themselves for the best possible outcome. A really clear example of this would be USA-India for example, but almost everyone does it to some extent, USA-France, USA-Germany, Germany-France, etc... Russia might not want China to be the only one with influence over Pakistan. There is a bit of a lose coalition forming there, and Russia will not want the internal politics of the coalition dominated by China alone in the future. I'm not saying that's the case or even likely, I'm just explaining one possible alternative series of ideas, in case anyone had any thoughts on the topic from that angle.
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Russia and Pakistan signed an ambitious agreement to expand defence and military ties on 20 November, setting in motion a new era of co-operation between the two former Cold War foes.

The agreement followed the recent confirmation by Pakistani officials to IHS Jane's that the two countries had agreed on the sale of up to 20 Mil Mi-35 attack helicopters to Islamabad. If concluded the helicopter deal would be the biggest military sale by Russia to Pakistan.

A military diplomatic source in Moscow told IHS Jane's that Pakistan is also interested in buying a batch of Mi-28NE 'Havoc' attack helicopters and that a Russian delegation is preparing to present data on the Mi-28NE as well as the Pantsir-S1 (SA-22), Tor-M2KM (SA-15), and Buk-M2 (SA-17) surface-to-air missile systems to Pakistani officials at the forthcoming International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi.

Pakistan, Russia sign defence co-operation agreement, discuss helo sales - IHS Jane's 360
 

JBH22

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Air Force and army are two segments Russia will lose in the future. Navy is lost as we'll
As any missile programs.
It may be reduced but they will still be here.

T-90, SU-30MKI and proposed FGFA will give them leverage for the coming 3 decades minimum.

Even we may wish its still far that day when India will be self sufficient in defence production.
 

sgarg

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Better to check your information before making any comment, the border issue between China and Russia was settled PERMANENTLY!
The 20 years agreement is all about gas deal!



Improving its influence? Of course, the Russians want to improving its influence over any country it could. That is what big powers do.
Balance its influence over potential Chinese allies? For what? Pakistan is welcoming any assistance to enhance its position standing against India. Chinese is welcoming any help to improve Pakistan which will reduce Chinese expense in return.
You explain the situation correctly. This is what I think too that Russia is taking steps to forge a closer relationship with China that in turn means a closer relationship with Pakistan.
India may not be seriously impacted by the arms sales as volume will be low likely. Russian arms are more expensive compared to Chinese arms, so Russian competitiveness is limited to a few niche segments.
Russian SAMs will definitely be a concern for India. We need to see how this develops.
 

Poseidon

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Re: Russia offers Mi-28NE, SA-22 & SA-17 to Pakistan

Some say additional Mi-17V5 is also on offer.
 

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