Russia Offers Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

pmaitra

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It is unclear whether an RFP was at all issued, or whether this was reported in any Indian news channel or site.
______________________________________


Russian 'Storm' top candidate to be India's new aircraft carrier - report

Source: https://www.rt.com/news/334142-india-aircraf-carrier-tender/

However, according to the Izvestia newspaper, the Russian project is the favorite in the upcoming tender. Russia's Krylovsky State Research Center (KRSC) will be offering its new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier design called Project 23000E Shtorm (Storm). The project was first revealed to the public in June at the Army-2015 show near Moscow, where a scale model of the ship was exhibited.
The design has a displacement of up to 100,000 tons, is 330 meters long, 40 meters wide, and has a draft of 11 meters. It has a nuclear power plant, although initial plans state a conventional one may also be used. The ship is designed to sail at up to 30 knots (around 55 km/h) and withstand sea state 6-7 (characterized by waves up to 9 meters high).
The carrier can remain 120 days at sea before needing a port. It will have a crew of 4,000 to 5,000 and deploy up to 100 aircraft. The air wing will include naval versions of T-50s (PAK FA) currently in development and MiG-29Ks, as well as early warning radar aircraft, most likely Yak-44Es.

Model of the aircraft carrier project 23000E at the «Army 2015» exhibition. © Artem Tkachenko / Wikipedia
 

SajeevJino

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I think this BS news already discussed here more than three to six months ago. This was first translated and reported by India Russia report website

Its clear we are moved with US for Next gen aircraft carrier Program and we already made many progress on that, the Carrier technology blah blah some org is good example for that
 

kstriya

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Get the best technology for the Indian aircraft carrier, like buy the Russian design use American catapult technology with some of our indigenous content. We can have FGFA, AMCA, NLCA, predator drones and E2 on board. It will be a unstoppable aircraft carrier with barak 8 and Bhramos NG. It will be amalgamation of best technologies from the world over. This is only possible in India under make in India initiative..
 

Yumdoot

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Though personally I don't like big ships, but you cannot rule out this proposal either. Except for the congenital keeda for western stuff there is no reason why the Russian proposal is not serious.

The Indian AC of like size with US reactor and EMALS will cost exactly the same as the Gerald Ford Class. 10 billion plus, in todays dollar, without considering the aircraft complement + operations cost + fleet rationalization.

Even Make In India will fail to bring that cost down. Because the only thing that can be made in India is the hull, which is the cheapest part of the whole ship.

People forget but the Indian Navy's inhouse design team has real experience of only the float category. Propulsion and fight are outside their scope, at this scale. So merely making a big hull is neither difficult for them (nor desirable - unfortunately for some of you).

So even if the US proposal is considered as favorable it must have the backing of DRDO and BARC etc. who are ultimately going to be the custodians of the fight and propulsion component. These people will however find it interesting only if (like CANDU) they can learn to make real stuff. Something I doubt will ever happen with US involved in any given project, much less a super-carrier. Canada and US are different, there is no hope for a CANDU styled learning curve ever repeating in the Indian friendship with USA. EMALS is just the side show. Good only for keeping fanboys happy. Real learning is in miniaturization of the biggest possible naval reactor. And reactors, of any size or shape, are something that is not at all difficult for Russians.

Indian Navy will have its own real needs. For example the IAF-FGFA is going to be real. And Indian Navy not buying it in the navalized version seems difficult to believe. There is nothing comparable, available at all, anywhere in the world. That alone is a big big incentive for Indian Navy.

For the politicians there is still another concern. The persistent problem of chinese capability to mate a DF-21D with one of them many subs. Which basically upends all such super carrier proposals around. Its too damn risky. And we have 3 times bigger maritime responsibilities then our competition. China has a 3 times bigger land border to take care of but a smaller sea. Our case is exactly the opposite with 3 times a bigger sea to take care of. Something that has been noticed by DRDO people when they announced their own anti-ship ballistic missile ambitions. Smartly turned out officers cannot in the same breath, convince the politicos of both the ASW advancements and of difficulties of finding a super-carrier. Even a Mulayam Singh level of intellect will see the inherent contradictions. It would be a real fun to watch the Admiral claim - we can hunt their prowling submarines but they cannot track our super-carriers.

Also if history is considered, the Indian Navy itself had argued for a 36 aircraft carrier as the lower end of the optimally sized carriers. Which basically means a 65000 ton carrier with room to spare. FYI, a carrier is expected to increase in weight by 1000 ton for every aircraft it is designed to carry (context is the nuke carriers). The hypothetical 65000 ton carrier can easily support = 20 FGFA + 20 NLCA Mk-2 or NAMCA + 3/4 heavy helos + 3/4 lighter helos + 2 of the COD/Hawkeye.

Frankly I doubt if we are ever going to go the super carrier route. Navy will find it interesting to have the option of 2 of the 65K ton carriers instead of option to have 1 of the 100K ton.
 

pmaitra

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True or not, we shall see in due course of time.

Does India need a super-carrier like the one mentioned in the OP article?

What are the advantages? What are the costs?
 

Gessler

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As per reports, the IN & MoD are now at a fork where they have to decide whether they want to make the Nuclear CATOBAR carrier a priority, or pursue the new-generation SSNs as a priority. Naturally, it's very feasible that they put the IAC-2 on the bank burner for the time being and dedicate resources for the SSN project - for which 6 boats have been envisaged so far.

The choice for selecting an SSN design is now between a new "4++ generation" concept from Rubin Design Bureau of Russia, and ofcourse the Barracuda/N-Scorpene concepts from DCNS France.

Keeping possibilities of follow-on orders, one can expect the total SSN requirement of the IN to be between 12 and 18 boats eventually.
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Get the best technology for the Indian aircraft carrier, like buy the Russian design use American catapult technology with some of our indigenous content. We can have FGFA, AMCA, NLCA, predator drones and E2 on board. It will be a unstoppable aircraft carrier with barak 8 and Bhramos NG. It will be amalgamation of best technologies from the world over. This is only possible in India under make in India initiative..
You mean like a proverbial camel
Neck like giraffe
Tail like xyx
Mouth like and
Hump like efg

End result
 

kstriya

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My suggestion
You mean like a proverbial camel
Neck like giraffe
Tail like xyx
Mouth like and
Hump like efg

End result
My suggestion is get the Russian design in the float category, under propulsion use the American tech and under the fight category use the American tech EMALS to get Airborne some if the heavy aircraft like E2 and also naval FGFA ir a similar fighter. It could be the best of both the world and a great made in India product.
 

Indx TechStyle

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Russia Offers India Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

Artem Tkachenko
Krylov State Research Center (KSRC), a Russian shipbuilding research and development institute, is designing the carrier known as Shtorm or Project 23000E.

NEW DELHI — Russia has offered its nuclear aircraft carrier, dubbed "Storm," to India for purchase, a senior Indian Navy official said. The offer comes as India and the US discuss the transfer of technology for India's future nuclear aircraft carrier, the INS Vishal.
A diplomat with the Russian Embassy confirmed that a Russian team visiting India last week made the offer.
Krylov State Research Center (KSRC), a Russian shipbuilding research and development institute, is designing the carrier, also known as Shtorm or Project 23000E.
"First revealed in May 2015, the Project 23000E multipurpose aircraft carrier is designed to conduct operations in remote and oceanic areas, engage land-based and sea-borne enemy targets, ensure the operational stability of naval forces, protect landing troops, and provide the anti-aircraft defense," the Navy official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
India plans to build its second homegrown aircraft carrier, INS Vishal, which will be nuclear-powered, 300 meters long, 70 meters wide and displace 65,000 tons.
"The choice [India's] is to have a nuclear powered carrier, technology for which will not be easy to get, and international help will be needed by India in the design and development of the super carrier," Nitin Mehta, an independent defense analyst, said.
Russia has already overhauled and modernized a Kiev-class carrier-cruiser, renamed INS Vikramaditya, for the Indian Navy from 2004-2013 in which they "gained valuable insights into carrier-building techniques through that process," Mehta said.
The US, meanwhile, has offered the electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS), which is does not include nuclear propulsion technology and is unavailable for the Russian carrier, according to the Indian Navy official.
"EMALS is a major attraction because it is flexible and allows variety of aircraft to come on the deck including the lighter, homemade light combat aircraft and heavy fighter aircraft," he said.
India and the US have formed a joint working group on aircraft carrier technology cooperation, but there is no discussion so far on offering nuclear technology for Indian aircraft carrier.
India has still to decide whether to buy the super carrier or build it locally.
"We will have to pay at least $12 billion to buy a nuclear power aircraft carrier that has EMALS capability but [the Indian] government will never approve the funding," the Indian Navy official said.
Anil Jai Singh, a retired Indian Navy commodore and defense analyst, is doubtful if India would buy a nuclear carrier.
"It is doubtful if India will be able to source a 65,000-ton carrier from another country, and [it] will be too expensive to buy", Singh said. "Does the Indian Navy really think it would have the kind of global footprint to justify that expense in the next 15 years or so?"
An Indian Ministry of Defence official said India must still finalize details on how to acquire its next homegrown carrier.
 

rohit b3

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""Russia has already overhauled and modernized a Kiev-class carrier-cruiser, renamed INS Vikramaditya, for the Indian Navy from 2004-2013 in which they "gained valuable insights into carrier-building techniques through that process," Mehta said.""

And India has designed and built a far more advanced Carrier from scratch, but oh well...
These kinda articles make me Lol :rofl:
 

WolfPack86

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Russia offers nuclear aircraft carrier to India

The building of the Project 23000 'Storm' aircraft carrier is supposed to take about 10-11 years.

Russia has offered India the joint construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, according to a source in the Indian Navy.

“A Russian military delegation offered India the Project 23000E 'Storm' (E stands for export-oriented, Eksportny) heavy aircraft carrier several weeks ago,” the Indian Navy source said. “The surface combatant is known to have a full displacement of about 100,000 tons and a price of about $5.7 billion. The proposed carrier has been jointly developed by the Krylov State Research Center (Russian acronym: KGNC) and the Nevskoye Design Bureau (Russian acronym: NPKB, a subsidiary of the United Shipbuilding Corporation). The building of the Project 23000 'Storm' aircraft carrier is supposed to take about 10-11 years.”

He added that India`s Ministry of Defence (MoD) would consider the Russian offer. “The MoD is planning to review it in strict accordance with the standard procedure. The final decision will be announced in late 2016,” the source added.

In May 2015, the Indian Navy allocated 300 million rupees ($4.5 million) to start design works on a new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier intended for the service. The ship is supposed to be named 'Vishal'.

India is working closely with the United States to develop an aircraft carrier. In 2015, both countries established the US-India Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Cooperation (JWGACTC) to address the issue. The third meeting of the group is supposed to take place between August 9 and August 12 in Washington DC.
https://www.facebook.com/indianmilitaryphotos/photos?ref=page_internal
 

Yumdoot

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Good find @WolfPack86

Same reported here too:
http://www.defencenews.in/article/A...-Jointly-constructed-by-India-and-Russia-6885
Russia has offered India the joint construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, according to a source in the Indian Navy.

“A Russian military delegation offered India the Project 23000E 'Storm' (E stands for export-oriented, Eksportny) heavy aircraft carrier several weeks ago,” the Indian Navy source said. “The surface combatant is known to have a full displacement of about 100,000 tons and a price of about $5.7 billion. The proposed carrier has been jointly developed by the Krylov State Research Center (Russian acronym: KGNC) and the Nevskoye Design Bureau (Russian acronym: NPKB, a subsidiary of the United Shipbuilding Corporation). The building of the Project 23300 'Storm' aircraft carrier is supposed to take about 10-11 years.”

He added that India`s Ministry of Defense (MoD) would consider the Russian offer. “The MoD is planning to review it in strict accordance with the standard procedure. The final decision will be announced in late 2016,” the source added.
Originating from this link, reporting yesterday:
https://rbth.com/news/2016/07/20/russia-offers-nuclear-aircraft-carrier-to-india_613219


For perspective:

INS Vikrant Cost will be around USD 3.66 billion
http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/indias-modi-approves-aircraft-carrier-funding/
The proposal will allocate Rs 19,000 crore (appx. $3.1 billion) to complete the construction of the INS Vikrant, which is being built by Cochin Shipyard Limited in Kochi. Reports indicate that completing the construction of the aircraft carrier will cost about Rs 20,000 crore.

Earlier administrations have released Rs 3,500 crore (appx. $560 million) in funds to complete the first phase of the carrier project.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...rore-for-INS-Vikrant/articleshow/38034399.cms
Defence ministry sources say the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is slated to meet this week, probably on Wednesday itself, to approve the allocation of around Rs 19,000 crore for the Phase-II and III building of the 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC).
<snip>
Modi on June 14 had spent several hours on the 44,400-tonne INS Vikramaditya, the second-hand Russian carrier Admiral Gorshkov extensively refitted at a cost of $2.33 billion for India, in his first outstation visit after becoming the PM.
While the INS Vikramaditya cost us USD 2.33 billion.
 
Last edited:

HariPrasad-1

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Yes, VIkky cost USD 2.33 and that is quite reasonable. People were saying that costs are escalating but how can you get an A?C at less than 2.33 bn USD?

Other good option is that if US retire some of her A/C, we should buy it and than make it renovate to use it for couple of decades.
 

WolfPack86

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A Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier Jointly constructed by India & Russia
 

WolfPack86

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Russia has offered its nuclear aircraft carrier, dubbed "Storm," to India for purchase
by Robert Farley
The chances are slim. Here’s why.

Early this year, a Russian group proposed to build a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier for India. The notional carrier would rival the supercarriers of the U.S. Navy in size and capability. Why did the Russians make such an offer, and what might the Indians make of the deal?
History of the Carrier
Russian interest in a supercarrier began during the Soviet period. Lacking the extensive worldwide bases that the United States Navy enjoyed, the Soviets could potentially benefit even more than the Americans from nuclear power, which reduced the logistical overhead for a carrier battle group.
Events intervened, and the Soviet carrier fleet never materialized. The four Kievs rotted (until one became INS Vikramaditya), while the Russians commissioned Admiral Kuznetsov and allocated her sister to Ukraine, which sold the hulk to China. The big (eighty-thousand-ton) nuclear carriers never left the slip, although the lead ship of the class (Ulyanovsk) reached 20 percent of completion before scrapping. Reportedly, China intends to construct two of its new carriers to a modified Ulyanovsk design.

The Shtorm class represents a new step in Russian carrier design. At roughly one hundred thousand tons, the Shtorms would compare roughly with the U.S. Nimitz- and Ford-class ships. It will carry advanced sensor and defense systems, eschewing (at least at this point) the anti-surface weaponry that has characterized previous Russian carriers. The ships would presumably be built at Sevmash shipyards, the only remaining Russian shipyard capable of managing such ships. Even then, Sevmash would require considerable expansion and modification to handle the giant carriers.
However, numerous problems remain. Russian shipbuilders have not constructed an aircraft carrier since the 1990s, and have never built a ship the size of the Shtorm. The Russian economy has gone deeply south in the last few years, forcing the Kremlin to carefully prioritize its defense commitments. Moreover, as many American commentators have noted, the supercarrier as a platform has multiple vulnerabilities.
History of the Relationship
And this makes a sale to India attractive. Put simply, Russia cannot afford to devote scarce resources to the construction of a nuclear aircraft carrier, unless it has a partner with sufficient financial wherewithal to make the project worth it. China’s shipbuilding industry has progressed to the point that it no longer requires Russia’s assistance. Only India both wants carriers and can afford them.
India has jumped into carrier aviation with both feet. To replace the ancient INS Viraat, India acquired INS Vikramaditya (the former Admiral Gorshkov) from Russia in 2013. India is currently building INS Vikrant, a forty-thousand-ton carrier similar to Vikramaditya in size and capability. India’s next carrier, provisionally named INS Vishal, may enter service in the middle of next decade. It appears that the Russians want the Shtorm project to fill in forVishal.
Russia also desperately wants to hold on to its defense relationship with India,especially as New Delhi appears to drift towards the United States. Building an aircraft carrier for India could take a decade or more, and would demand an extensive, long-term relationship between the navies of the two countries. If Russia also supplied the carrier aircraft (some have mooted the idea of a carrier-capable version of the PAK FA eventually flying off the Shtorms), it would play the central role in the long-term development of India’s naval aviation program, presumably putting the United States on the outside looking in.
In a sense, the project mirrors that of the deal that the Russians made with the French to construct two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships. In that case, France sought to offset the cost of developing the Mistral platform by building an export market. Russia offered itself as the primary customer, in a deal that would involve technology transfer and the construction of two Mistrals in Russian yards. As everyone knows, however, the deal went sour; France withheld the Mistrals after Russia invaded and conquered Crimea (one of the amphibious assault ships was named RFS Sevastopol, a move that was on the nose even by the standards of the Russians). A Russian deal with India would similarly try to share costs and risk across both countries, although hopefully with a more positive eventual outcome
.
Bad Idea
It’s hard to make this idea make sense for India. India is already doing the difficult work, with INS Vikrant, of developing the capacity to build huge warships. Building Vishal in India would no doubt be difficult and expensive, but it would preserve the hard won human and physical infrastructure necessary to build large carriers. Vishal will likely not displace one hundred thousand tons, but India probably doesn’t need a carrier of that size.
Even to the extent India would want a patron, why would it choose Russia, a state with extremely limited experience with modern carrier operations? The deal to acquire INS Vikramaditya went well over budget, and came in considerably behind schedule. There is very little reason to believe that the Russians would do better with an even more complicated project. The United States has offered to collaborate with India on a variety of advanced carrier technologies, an offer that would likely end if India threatened to share those technologies with Russia. More broadly, the Russian defense industry has become an increasingly unreliable partner for India, as the ongoing saga of the PAK FA has demonstrated. The idea of turning the PAK FA into a naval fighter is certainly. . . interesting, and not in a good way.
Notwithstanding the long-term defense relationship between Russia and India, and the ongoing insistence of many within the Indian diplomatic and defense communities for maintaining a balancing act between Russia and America, there is little real prospect of Russia building an Indian carrier. If India decides to spend that much money, it will want to keep the investment domestic, rather than export capital to an unreliable partner. Like so many previous plans, the Shtorm class will likely remain on the drawing board, unless Russia’s economic fortunes change dramatically.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/08/coming-soon-russian-built-super.html
 

WolfPack86

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Manohar Parrikar to visit US next week for pushing key defence ties
Defence minister Manohar Parrikar will visit the US next week with key military alliance agendas. According to officials at the Ministry of Defence (MoD), India and the US are highly likely to sign the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), on which the two nations agreed in principle during the US defence secretary Ashton Carter's visit to New Delhi in April. LEMOA, that will allow sharing of military logistics by using each other's Army, Air Force and Naval bases for supplies, repair and rest was the highlight of Carter's visit and signalled a crucial shift in India's stand on defence ties with the US.

The US has been maintaining that cooperation under the Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) can grow if India signs what US calls three foundational agreements – LSA (of which LEMOA is a modified form), and the other two being the Communication and Information Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA).

Even as CISMOA and BECA too will be followed up during the visit, officials said another important agenda during Parrikar's visit will be the Indian Navy's requirements of the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) for aircraft carriers as well as the long-range Predator B Guardian surveillance unmanned aircraft or drone. Navy has put an initial requirement of 22 Predators.

Parrikar's visit also coincides with India's lookout for a technologically new set of fighter jets for its air force and two US companies, Boeing and Lockheed Martin pitching hard for it even as the government to government deal on the French Rafale jets is still stuck in negotiations.

India is also on a look out for technology cooperation for its second indigenous aircraft carrier, the 65,000 tonnes INS Vishal. Even as India's first indigenous aircraft, INS Vikrant is in advanced stage of construction, Navy is in the process of finalising the design for INS Vishal, which will be India's largest battleship. India has been eyeing the advanced US aircraft carrier technology for this project.


Eyeing advance technology

India is also on a look out for technology cooperation for its second indigenous aircraft carrier, the 65,000 tonnes INS Vishal. Even as India's first indigenous aircraft, INS Vikrant is in advanced stage of construction, Navy is in the process of finalising the design for INS Vishal, which will be India's largest battleship. India has been eyeing the advanced US aircraft carrier technology for this project.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/M...S-next-week-for-pushing-key-defence-ties-7635
 

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