Russia may deploy with India co-production "Sukhoi Superjet"

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

Any strategic project done with Russia means china will also get it. Which could
Mean Pakistan will also get in the future -rd-93 engine one example. Expect a lot
More delays and price hikes before pakfa arrives in IAF.

Honestly there is no co-developed engine.

Russia cannot be expected to sell its defence products to India only.

As for FGFA, Chinese have their own programs which seem ahead of Russians.

I see nothing wrong in jet engine sale to Pakistan. Everybody is selling to everybody in global arms bazaar. Why do we expect Russia to restrict its sales.

We are buying from USA which is the primary supplier of Pakistan.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

I think the concern here is not reasonable. If a technology is contributed by India and then it is sold to China without Indian consent, then only we can question Russia.

Defence products are a major export item for Russia. Our purchases are significant for Russia but not enough.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

I think India should nurture relationship with Russia.

Europeans are fair weather friends. USA's and India's bandwidth do not match. India cannot keep up with USA. Russia is the only all-weather friend.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

Some Specs Of SU-Super Jet and Other Competitors ..

Superjet 100

Unit cost >> US$ 35.4 Base
Range >> 2,900 km
Takeoff run at MTOW >> 1,515 m

==================

Mitsubishi Regional Jet

Unit cost >> US$ 42 million
Range >> 1,530 km
Takeoff run at MTOW >> 1,450 m

==================

Boeing 737-700

Unit cost >> US$ 78.3 million
Range >> 6,230 km
Takeoff run at MTOW >> 1,600 m

==================

Unit cost >> US$ 62 million
Range >> 5,463 km
Takeoff run at MTOW >> 1,463 m

 

[sorcerer]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

Embraer 190

MTOW:2,056 m
Range: 3,334 km (1,800 nmi)

source:E190

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

Sukhoi SuperJet is quite good for domestic routes. Let us see if GOI is able to work out something.

The advantage of SuperJet is that this jet can be bought under ruble/rupee swap thus no USD outgo is needed.

Maybe Tata can build this too in addition to C295.

 

[roma]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

Any strategic project done with Russia means china will also get it. Which could
Mean Pakistan will also get in the future -rd-93 engine one example. Expect a lot
More delays and price hikes before pakfa arrives in IAF.

I think the concern here is not reasonable. If a technology is contributed by India and then it is sold to China without Indian consent, then only we can question Russia.
Defence products are a major export item for Russia. Our purchases are significant for Russia but not enough.

we already know that whatever we develop with russia might later be sold to chi-pak

russia needs cash so they will sell and india cant outright stop that, especially if after all we
did benefit from the r&d co-operation ?

we should therefore negotiate with Russia for at least some of the following :-
(a) no technology transfer to chi-pak
(b) slightly downgraded version to be sold
(c) no manufacturing capability to be given to chi-pak - spare parts will be on order to russia
(d) appropriate % of profit of sales goes to india

i dont think those are stifling conditions and if we negotiate well should be able to get agreement
russia is an important old friend - alignments are not the same as in soviet times, but relationship is still
pretty solid .----plus india manufacturing capability is still way below the required level .

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@roma, it does not work this way. What Russia does with the money India pays for weapons is Russia's business.

India can put conditions only on the equipment that originates from India.

The best way is to build influence and leverage by increasing bilateral trade, and giving a reason to Russia to do our bidding.

 

[roma]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@roma, it does not work this way. What Russia does with the money India pays for weapons is Russia's business.
India can put conditions only on the equipment that originates from India.
The best way is to build influence and leverage by increasing bilateral trade, and giving a reason to Russia to do our bidding.

were we talking about co-production or were we talking about quote " money india pays for weapons " ?

if it is truly co-production then doesnt india have some say - at least to negotiate ?

nevertheless the rest of your post i agree with - albeit , it is a different topic from the one on this thread .

 

[ninja85]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

'may deploy'??? is it just preparation of visit of russian president.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

Honestly there is no co-developed engine.

Russia cannot be expected to sell its defence products to India only.

As for FGFA, Chinese have their own programs which seem ahead of Russians.


I see nothing wrong in jet engine sale to Pakistan. Everybody is selling to everybody in global arms bazaar. Why do we expect Russia to restrict

its sales.

We are buying from USA which is the primary supplier of Pakistan.

What strategic advantage do we have then buying from Russia?none
Compare us sale to Pakistan and india. One good example harpoon missiles.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@LETHALFORCE, Russia is the only country that has provided genuine TOT in defence field. Russian weapons are well understood by Indian technologists and have been the basis of development of local weapons.

The Western buys have been one-time without any long term impact.

It is a fact that Russian aviation technology is not as advanced as Western technology. However Western technology has not been available to India. So complaining about Russia is illogical.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

Western weapons = very expensive, no transfer of technology
Russian weapons = reasonably priced + transfer of technology

Russian weapons have provided India more bang for the buck.
India has had a good relationship with France as well in defence field. But of late French are resorting to inflating prices and delays.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@LETHALFORCE, Russia is the only country that has provided genuine TOT in defence field. Russian weapons are well understood by Indian technologists and have been the basis of development of local weapons.

The Western buys have been one-time without any long term impact.

It is a fact that Russian aviation technology is not as advanced as Western technology. However Western technology has not been available to India. So complaining about Russia is illogical.

Please give me one example of a TOT given by Russia to India?
You have made it clear . In the past we had no choice so we bought from Russia.
That is no longer the case. We need to develop exclusive arms agreements with
Smaller nations israel,France,Sweden etc.... This would be a strategic advantage
And one I believe we are pursuing. As far as Russia goes I only see much lower
Arms sales to india in the future. If Chinese are making better weapons than Russia
Then we really need to reevaluate bigger deals.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@LETHALFORCE, India is already buying from many sources. So why you are complaining about Russian sales to China and Pakistan.

India can buy what makes sense for its forces.

TOT examples - T-72 tank, BMP-2 IFV, various anti-tank missiles, Mig-21, Mig-27 fighter aircrafts, the list is very long

Latest example is Su-30. You forget that Su-30 plant is the largest aviation factory in India today.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@LETHALFORCE, India is already buying from many sources. So why you are complaining about Russian sales to China and Pakistan.

India can buy what makes sense for its forces.

I don't like adversaries to be familiar with our weapons.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@LETHALFORCE, India is already buying from many sources. So why you are complaining about Russian sales to China and Pakistan.

India can buy what makes sense for its forces.

TOT examples - T-72 tank, BMP-2 IFV, various anti-tank missiles, Mig-21, Mig-27 fighter aircrafts, the list is very long

Latest example is Su-30. You forget that Su-30 plant is the largest aviation factory in India today.

Sukhois upto recently were sent to india in kits.


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/india-ordering-modernizing-su-30mkis-05852/

 

[sgarg]

Re: Russia may deploy with India co-production aircraft "Sukhoi Superj

@LETHALFORCE:

1. Familiarity - Pakistani are familiar with all Indian weapons. Don't expect Rafale to be sold to India alone. France will sell to any Muslim country that is willing to buy. Familiarity alone will not win them any wars.
2. HAL has localized production of the airplane. Initial units came in kit form as per the contract.

 

[pmaitra]

I am not opposed to Russia co-producing the Sukhoi Superjet in India. I agree with some members that Sukhoi should find a private Indian partner. Some have suggested Tata. Since Tata is already collaborating with Boeing, Sukhoi should partner up with Mahindra. Let there be competition.

Sukhoi Superjet is essentially a civilian aeroplane. This, for me, is not a priority. My priority would be turbines. We should continue our collaboration with SNECMA, but I would also like Russian Design Bureaux like Kuznetsov and Klimov to partner up with GTRE and establish a separate company to develop turbines, including bringing in total ToT for critical components.

 

[sgarg]

Well, talked to somebody and it seems Sukhoi SuperJet may have a market in India. It is a small plane quite suitable for regional low density routes.

Russia may offer Ruble pricing for the plane under Ruble/Rupee swap. So it will be possible for Indian banks to finance this plane without going to RBI for $$$.

The government can consider buying this aircraft for para-military also.