Russia Is Actually Abandoning The Dollar

sob

Mod
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
6,425
Likes
3,805
Country flag
By all means repeat it as many times as you please, but I am trying to understand the "benchmarks" you were talking about.

What is that "benchmark?" Making a promise and then walking away from it?
You have to take what is the best available option. The other options are simply not there.

Plus remember the US is under no obligation to support the other countries with it's currency. Any decision that it takes on the Dollar are based on their own self interests.
 

Compersion

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
2,258
Likes
923
Country flag
oil is done with US Dollar ... if Russian wants to sell its black gold in the western market it would be done in US dollar ...

will it use a currency that is not Euro and US dollar for its trade and transaction with Europe ... the major producers of oil will also not shift (USA grip)

the fall and demise of US dollar is not possible in short term. it is unknown what will happen in medium to long term ... perhaps a international currency that takes away the US Dollar component that is traded overseas and used by oil and other commodities and structured products in international trade that predominately use US dollar now and leave the USA country (only) specific US Dollar that is used by USA and its trading partners to be managed by USA. Perhaps the international currency would be pegged to the US Internal US dollar at first before moving to a basket of currency. But USA wont give up and allow that too easily - its all working up to now for many decades ... Russia cannot abandon US dollar without others following suit ...
 
Last edited:

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
You have to take what is the best available option. The other options are simply not there.
Well, perceptions vary from person to person.

The perceived qualities you mentioned, have been apparent for a long time.

The broken promise of gold backed US Dollar have been apparent, and explicit, since about four decades now. So, "fair play" goes out the window.

When Germany wanted to see its gold reserves, the US couldn't show them. When France wanted its gold back, it didn't get them. So, "transparency" goes out the window.

Finally, when transactions between two countries not involving the US is penalized under US laws, then "trust" in a claimed "international reserve currency" goes out the window.

Then again, as I said, perception varies from person to person. Those that do not know the details, will think everything is hunky and dory.

You claimed that, and I quote, "One major thing the writer in this article does not understand . . . ;" well, the writer understands a lot more than what commoners do not. The entire article is worth a read, not just a small portion of the article.

I recommend you read the article in full.

Plus remember the US is under no obligation to support the other countries with it's currency. Any decision that it takes on the Dollar are based on their own self interests.
The US does not support any country with its currency. The US uses its currency to get other countries to support the US economy.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
oil is done with US Dollar ... if Russian wants to sell its black gold in the western market it would be done in US dollar ...

will it use a currency that is not Euro and US dollar for its trade and transaction with Europe ... the major producers of oil will also not shift (USA grip)

the fall and demise of US dollar is not possible in short term. it is unknown what will happen in medium to long term ... perhaps a international currency that takes away the US Dollar component that is traded overseas and used by oil and other commodities and structured products in international trade that predominately use US dollar now and leave the USA country (only) specific US Dollar that is used by USA and its trading partners to be managed by USA. Perhaps the international currency would be pegged to the US Internal US dollar at first before moving to a basket of currency. But USA wont give up and allow that too easily - its all working up to now for many decades ... Russia cannot abandon US dollar without others following suit ...
That is where the BRICS SDR comes into play.

Everything will be gradual, and it should be. Shock therapy is something I personally do not recommend.
 

karn

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
3,636
Likes
15,494
Country flag
IN the end the ability to switch to a dollar alternative totally depends on the strength of the real economy of each country .
China and agreed to swap 26 USD equivalent of currency . This is because Russia and China have more than 26billion USD worth of things to sell each other .
In stark contrast Iran is fed up with selling oil to us in rupees as we don't have much to offer them . After they reduced rice imports this became critical.
This is truoblesome because rupees deposited in banks do not earn interest . As nobody want rupee denominated loans in Iran. This can only change if India industry has a larger presence there.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
@karn China Russia trade is over $ 90bln for the time being.

that's why more investment tools need to b created such as Rupee denominated bonds so that other countries (i.e. Iran) can invest Rupee they're holding. in that case they will b willing to trade in Rs and keep it as reserves. lots of RMB bonds hav been issued in Hong Kong and London. even Sri Lanka gvmt is going to issue RMB bonds.

also a strong currency is preferred for reserves- a devaluation nightmare like for Ruble is certainly a bad experience :D foreigners like students in Moscow wrote back impressive stories how they rushed to buy iPhones etc. to take advantage of steep Ruble plunge, or Russian merchants had to cancel import orders or hold back payment in the meltdown.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jouni

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
3,900
Likes
1,138
I hope ordinary Russians come out of this crisis with "dry feet". Poverty levels were at an alarming level in Russia even before the crisis when the oil prices were sky rocketing
60% of Russians Have Lived in Poverty

According to Slobodenyuk, poverty in Russia is a widespread phenomenon. In recent years, the majority of Russians have at least temporarily experienced poverty. Only about a quarter (24.2%) of Russians did not live in poverty at any time during the seven years of observation, while almost 60% spent two or more years in poverty.

In addition to this, 40% of the Russian poor are chronically poor, i.e. they have lived in poverty for a number of years without any visible signs of improvement; 34% of the poor are slightly better off – even though they, too, experience chronic poverty, their situation may from time to time change for the better, i.e. at times they may dip below the poverty line, but then rise above it. And finally, poverty is a temporary state caused by certain circumstances for a quarter of all Russia's poor/I]
 

karn

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
3,636
Likes
15,494
Country flag
@karn China Russia trade is over $ 90bln for the time being.

that's why more investment tools need to b created such as Rupee denominated bonds so that other countries (i.e. Iran) can invest Rupee they're holding. in that case they will b willing to trade in Rs and keep it as reserves. lots of RMB bonds hav been issued in Hong Kong and London. even Sri Lanka gvmt is going to issue RMB bonds.

also a strong currency is preferred for reserves- a devaluation nightmare like for Ruble is certainly a bad experience :D foreigners like students in Moscow wrote back impressive stories how they rushed to buy iPhones etc. to take advantage of steep Ruble plunge, or Russian merchants had to cancel import orders or hold back payment in the meltdown.
Russia has 350 billion Euro trade with the EU . Russia needs to hold as much Euros and dollars as possible still.
Rupee bonds are useless the government or private industry try to get into any country that India hopes to trade with in rupees . Which ties into the "real" strength of the economy .
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
Eurasian Economic Union to Stop Using Dollar, Euro

Over the next ten years, the Eurasian Economic Union will phase out use of the dollar and euro.


Mikhail Kutuzin [SOURCE]


The sooner Eurasia dumps this paper garbage, the better

This article originally appeared at ukraina.ru.



The Federation Council and the State Duma have supported the idea of establishing a common payment system that would involve Russian and Belarusian rubles, the Kazakh tenge and the Armenian dram.

Members of the Eurasian Economic Union will stop all mutual payments in dollars and euros by 2025-2030, and they will replace these currencies with their respective national currencies, newspaper Izvestia writes.

Alexander Murychev, the vice president of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs, said this would be made possible by establishing a common payment system for EAEU member countries, including the Russian electronic card system, as well as the currently operational BelCard and Armenian Card systems.

"The creation of a common EAEU payment system will call for introducing a system of multi-currency operations or a common currency unit. At the same time, it is necessary to tell national banks to exclude the US dollar and the euro from interstate payments," Murychev said.

Natalia Burykina, the chairperson of the State Duma Committee on the Financial Market, stressed that the initiative to introduce national currency payments and to stop using the dollar and the euro was logical because this is implied by the creation of a common EAEU economic space.

 

katsung47

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
237
Likes
32
Russia falls in US' oil trap, or US falls in Putin's gold trap? Interesting article to read.

Grandmaster Putin's Trap

Thu, Dec 25, 2014

Russia, United States
By Dmitry KALINICHENKO (Russia

Despite numerous success reports in the style of Fox News and CNN, today, Western economy, led by the United States is in Putin's trap, the way out of which no one in the West can see or find. And the more the West is trying to escape from this trap, the more stuck it becomes.

Grandmaster Putin's Trap�|�Oriental Review
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
Russia falls in US' oil trap, or US falls in Putin's gold trap? Interesting article to read.
From the article:

Because Russia, having a regular flow of dollars from the sale of oil and gas, in any case, will be able to convert them to gold with current gold prices, depressed by all means by the West. That is, at the price of gold, which had been artificially and meticulously lowered by the Fed and ESF many times, against artificially inflated purchasing power of the dollar through market manipulation.

Interesting fact: the suppression of gold prices by the special department of US Government – ESF (Exchange Stabilization Fund) – with the aim of stabilizing the dollar has been made into a law in the United States.

In the financial world it is accepted as a given that gold is an antidollar.
â—¦In 1971, US President Richard Nixon closed the 'gold window', ending the free exchange of dollars for gold, guaranteed by the US in 1944 at Bretton Woods.
â—¦In 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin has reopened the 'gold window', without asking Washington's permission.

Right now the West spends much of its efforts and resources to suppress the prices of gold and oil. Thereby, on the one hand to distort the existing economic reality in favor of the US dollar and on the other hand, to destroy the Russian economy, refusing to play the role of obedient vassal of the West.

Today assets such as gold and oil look proportionally weakened and excessively undervalued against the US dollar. It is a consequence of the enormous economic effort on the part of the West.
Putin's trap? The US Dollar is falling* due to the house of cards it has built itself. Putin is only taking advantage of an existing weakness, and a massive one, on which the very viability of the US Dollar stands. Who asked Nixon to walk away from the Gold Standard? Putin? The demise of the Dollar has begun, and no one should blame Putin, or give him credit. It was inevitable.

"Debt is money and money is debt BS" is slowly being exposed.

* - in credibility.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
It's eerily silent in Kremlin... No boasting from Putin of Russia's economic gains? Of how Russia is so economically strong?

This only means 1 thing, Russian economy is in very serious trouble.

Russian Economy to Shrink 5%, says EBRD

Russia's economy will shrink by close to 5 per cent this year, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development forecast, while average growth for eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union will fall into negative territory for the first time since 2009.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/544e25d0-9fe6-11e4-9a74-00144feab7de.html
 
Last edited:

jouni

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
3,900
Likes
1,138
I talked with my Russian friend today, message was clear: it is about pride and Russia will not back down and kneel to Americans even if it means economic doom. Of course as a Finn I can only admire their dedication, who are we to tell them what to do. I only made one small request: please stay at your side of border.
 

apple

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
612
Likes
174
Think a more accurate title for this thread would The Dollar is abandoning Russia. Although capital flight has always been a problem for them

Good luck to Russian industry with servicing your, massive, foreign debt in rubles...

I hope ordinary Russians come out of this crisis with "dry feet". Poverty levels were at an alarming level in Russia even before the crisis when the oil prices were sky rocketing
60% of Russians Have Lived in Poverty

According to Slobodenyuk, poverty in Russia is a widespread phenomenon. In recent years, the majority of Russians have at least temporarily experienced poverty. Only about a quarter (24.2%) of Russians did not live in poverty at any time during the seven years of observation, while almost 60% spent two or more years in poverty.

In addition to this, 40% of the Russian poor are chronically poor, i.e. they have lived in poverty for a number of years without any visible signs of improvement; 34% of the poor are slightly better off – even though they, too, experience chronic poverty, their situation may from time to time change for the better, i.e. at times they may dip below the poverty line, but then rise above it. And finally, poverty is a temporary state caused by certain circumstances for a quarter of all Russia's poor/I]


Nah... F*** 'em. "They" as a nation and people, deserve it. Personally, I hope they return to a Communist system. They're no threat to anyone, except their neighbours, anymore and the Internationale isn't going to be problem going into the future. A command economy should raise the living standards of the majority of Russians.

This being said I'm a bit of fan of Adam Smith/ Libertarianism. But, as Russophiles have always claimed: Russia is different. Maybe the normal rules don't apply to them.

Russia falls in US' oil trap, or US falls in Putin's gold trap? Interesting article to read.
First paragraph of fantastist's article claims no one ever called Putin an idiot... really?

Only thing he's succeeded in is skimming off billions from the Russia's economy due to the windfall of high oil prices. Criminal mastermind: sure, political idiot: most definitely.
 

katsung47

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
237
Likes
32
Russia still adding to gold reserves big time

With an addition of 18.7 tonnes in October, Russia continues to build up its gold reserves.

Author: Lawrence Williams
Posted: Friday , 21 Nov 2014

LONDON (Mineweb) -

The latest announcement from the Russian Central Bank shows that the nation is still accumulating gold at a high level. Total gold reserves according to figures compiled by Nick Laird of Gold Charts.:.ShareLynx Gold.:.Silver.:.PGMs.:. have now reached 1,169 tonnes having been expanded by a further 600,000 ounces (18.7 tonnes) in October.

Gold - Mineweb
 

Dark Sorrow

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
4,988
Likes
9,931
I have few questions
  1. How is Russia planning to pay for food imports especially Tea?
  2. How is Russia planning to import machinery especially one required for oil drilling?
  3. What about computers and software?
  4. What about entertainment?
  5. Lets not forget consumer goods?
and the list goes on
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
I have few questions
  1. How is Russia planning to pay for food imports especially Tea? (Rupee-Rouble, Yuan-Rouble, BRICS SDR, gold)
  2. How is Russia planning to import machinery especially one required for oil drilling? (Rupee-Rouble, Yuan-Rouble, BRICS SDR, gold)
  3. What about computers and software? (Rupee-Rouble, Yuan-Rouble, BRICS SDR, gold)
  4. What about entertainment? (Rupee-Rouble, Yuan-Rouble, BRICS SDR, gold)
  5. Lets not forget consumer goods? (Rupee-Rouble, Yuan-Rouble, BRICS SDR, gold)
and the list goes on
From what I have understood from the various articles posted in the recent past, I have tried to answer your questions inline.

If you recall, the US imposed sanctions on Iran, and India used gold to buy oil from Iran, completely bypassing the Dollar trade.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
I am posting this article, entitled, "Sergey Glazyev: The United States will wage the battle 'until the last Ukrainian'," not because I want to focus on Ukraine, but on currency as a vehicle of international trade.

February 3, 2015
Sergey Glazyev - Video
Translated by Krisitna Rus
A sign of the upcoming collapse of America-central financial system is a crisis of the US national debt. You can see that this debt is growing exponentially. And any mathematician who looks at this graph will say that that the system has entered a critical phase and is in danger of self-destruction.

The American model is still strong. Americans dominate in financial markets, with about a 70% share of financial transactions. Having an opportunity of unlimited emission of the world currency, they finance a great share of military expenses, leading in the arms race. More then half of the world military expenses belongs to the US, and 2/3 - including NATO countries.

From the point of view of the long-term technological and institutional dynamics we are in a very dangerous period. This is a period of a shift of types of capital reproduction, cycles of accumulation, formation of a new core of economic development.

It could be called "a core of capitalism", however the Chinese model combines social and capitalist mechanisms of organization of capital reproduction. Unfortunately in the 1990's we tried to reproduce an old-fashioned model of capital reproduction, tried to copy the American model, and received a disaster as a result. If we followed the model which was chosen by China, offered by the Russian Academy of Sciences, and the Chinese implemented many of the ideas of our scientists, the most talented of whom spent a lot of time in China in the 90's and taught the Chinese how to built a transitional economy.

Instead of our scientists we used the recommendations of Jeffrey Sachs, and the like opportunists, who imposed the American model, making Russia a far outpost of the world economy. Today this American model is entering a phase of self-destruction. This is a very dangerous phase. So far there have not been any exceptions from the common cycles of accumulation. We are truly on the verge of a global war. This tendency of a world war is determined by the deep dynamics of institutional technological shifts.

Undoubtedly the United States will wage the battle for leadership "until the last Ukrainian", as they say now. Not accidentally they chose Ukraine as a tool of attacking Europe and Russia. Launching a world war is necessary for the Americans in order to preserve their hegemony in the world through strengthening control over Europe by imposing the Trans-Atlantic free trade agreement; establishing control over Russia and Middle East, thus expanding their competitive advantage in the battle for leadership with the Asian countries.

This war is doomed for defeat. Although Japan remains an occupied country, despite all the obstacles that Americans are trying to create in the Japanese-Chinese relationship, very quickly the Japanese capital is merging with the Chinese production system.

And we have to understand that these convulsions, that we see in Washington, from the point of view of global development, will not allow the Americans to hold on to leadership, but present a great danger for us, because they are starting a war in Europe against us.

We are the main victim of this war today, and there is no reason to believe that it will stop in the next few years.

Sergey Yurievich Glazyev is a Russian politician and economist, Full Member of Russian Academy of Science since 2008. He was a minister in 1993, a member of the State Duma in 1993-2007, and ran for President of Russia in 2004. Glazyev was a co-founder of the Rodina party.
Bottom-line is:
Those that benefit from the current system, will try to hang onto the current system, and will try to preserve it.
Those that suffer from the current system, will strive to break out of it.
Since we have a conflict of interests, an obvious possibility is, war.
 

Dark Sorrow

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
4,988
Likes
9,931
From what I have understood from the various articles posted in the recent past, I have tried to answer your questions inline.

If you recall, the US imposed sanctions on Iran, and India used gold to buy oil from Iran, completely bypassing the Dollar trade.
Drilling machinery are mainly manufactured by German and American companies. Machinery were smuggled into Iran from Germany. US let this slide but it won't let such thing happen against Iran.
Last time I checked Americans controlled the computing industry (all semi-conductor, electronics and software).
Major MNC are not going to risk sell any goods to embargoed nations with risk to loose western base. I don't know if you know this but if you have to import electronics, semi-conductors or software from western nations especially US, UK, Germany, France and even Japan or South Korea (to some extent) you have to sign an undertaking that anything you make won't go to nations Embargoed by the State Department (for US) or respective External Affair Ministries. Doing so you will be permanently debarred from purchasing again and will be liable for prosecution.
You are overestimation China. Almost all Chinese high end goods are manufactured my Western MNC be them any thing. Even Hawaii and Xiaomi contains all major Western equipment.
Why should we as Indians accept Rouble. Our imports are from Russia are mainly limited to Defence. Now even Israelis, Americans and Europeans are catching up. On the contrary we import a lot of stuff from China, EU (Germans and Swiss mainly) and Middle East who only accept US dollars. Indian mainly exports mainly to EU, US, China and Middle East who can readily pay in US dollar. So why should be accept Rouble that no one except Russia will accept as form of currency.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
Drilling machinery are mainly manufactured by German and American companies. Machinery were smuggled into Iran from Germany. US let this slide but it won't let such thing happen against Iran.
Last time I checked Americans controlled the computing industry (all semi-conductor, electronics and software).
Major MNC are not going to risk sell any goods to embargoed nations with risk to loose western base. I don't know if you know this but if you have to import electronics, semi-conductors or software from western nations especially US, UK, Germany, France and even Japan or South Korea (to some extent) you have to sign an undertaking that anything you make won't go to nations Embargoed by the State Department (for US) or respective External Affair Ministries. Doing so you will be permanently debarred from purchasing again and will be liable for prosecution.
You are overestimation China. Almost all Chinese high end goods are manufactured my Western MNC be them any thing. Even Hawaii and Xiaomi contains all major Western equipment.
Yes, I know about the third party transfer restrictions, and that is why we were not able to sell our HAL ALH to Myanmar.

If Russia cannot get from the west, it will make at home, and if it cannot, it will get from PRC, with some delta of exceptions.

Russia can make all drilling equipment, and they might be marginally inferior to the German made ones, but Russia being a long term oil producer is not at anyone's mercy on drilling equipment.

Why should we as Indians accept Rouble. Our imports are from Russia are mainly limited to Defence. Now even Israelis, Americans and Europeans are catching up. On the contrary we import a lot of stuff from China, EU (Germans and Swiss mainly) and Middle East who only accept US dollars. Indian mainly exports mainly to EU, US, China and Middle East who can readily pay in US dollar. So why should be accept Rouble that no one except Russia will accept as form of currency.
Who said it is about us Indians accepting the Rouble? It is about us Indians accepting the Rouble and the Russians accepting the Rupee, and periodically settling it, with gold, or other tangible wealth, just like we do currently for our Dollar forex with the Bank of International Settlement and the Bank of England.

Moreover, why should we not accept Rouble? Why should we involve a third party currency and allow it to take a slice of the pie? It saves money to have a direct Rupee-Rouble trade, and we lose money if we involve the Dollar in the middle. It is against India's interest to involve the Dollar, when trading with Rouble or Yuan, or BRICS SDR.

There are posts on this topic, some by me. It is best you read more about the Rupee-Rouble trade. Get all the diverse opinions and draw your own conclusions.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top