Russia, France to Jointly Build Armored Vehicle

[Zebra]

ZHUKOVSKY, June 29 (RIA Novosti)

Russia and France will jointly build a new armored infantry vehicle in the next 18 months, the Rosoboronexport arms export monopoly said on Friday.
Speaking at the Engineering Technologies forum at Zhukovsky near Moscow, Igor Sevastyanov, the company's deputy chief, said he was heading a working party incorporating new technology from both nations and that a model had been made.

"We have a project under the aegis of a Russian-French group for land forces, which I head," Sevastyanov said. "Now we are working on development of some vehicles with a French base but with Russian weapons and Russian turrets."

"The vehicle should appear in the near future, around 18 months. We have a draft design and a model has been made," he added.

He said France is also interested in co-production, with Russia, of an armored personnel carrier to be sold to third countries.

It may also be used by the French or Russian armed forces, he said, adding that the new vehicle would have to meet both Russian and NATO standards.

Previous media reports have suggested that talks have taken place between Russia and French military vehicle manufacturer, Panhard, on purchasing Panhard vehicles for Russia's border guard service. The results of the talks have not been disclosed.

Sevastyanov also said Russia and the United States could cooperate in joint development of arms and military equipment. He did not mention any specific projects, only saying a "joint product" might be around in five to 10 years......:shocked:

Russia, France to Jointly Build Armored Vehicle | Defense | RIA Novosti

 

[Armand2REP]

I assume whatever it is will have the BMP-3 turret. Sagem has already integrated systems for the UAE upgrade. Not to mention Russians seem to want to stick that turret on every tracked IFV. I think that is a little heavy to stick on a VAB replacement and we already developed the CT40 turret.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Panhard has a great history of building vehicles of various types.

Panhard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Armand2REP]

Just speculating, but France needs a replacement for VAB and Russia is looking for BTR replacements. The chassis will be French so probably based on VBMR designs...

 

[p2prada]

Interesting. So, the Russians will have the Armata UCP for a heavy tank and IFV while there is a JV for APCs.

Are they planning on converting the Russian-French development into an IFV as well or is it possible this will be aimed at the export market?

This will combine both Russian and French markets for the same APC/IFV. So, less competition and more collaboration. Nice move by both countries.

 

[sukhish]

for some reason I was hoping that India Russia and france should start to have some kind of trilateral dialouge.

 

[p2prada]

for some reason I was hoping that India Russia and france should start to have some kind of trilateral dialouge.

We are nearly about to finalize the prototype of two FICVs out of four in our own country. We don't need another collaboration.

 

[Armand2REP]

Here is a quote from last year that might shed some light...

General Staff Chief Nikolay Makarov said...

The Defense Ministry, he says, has no desire to buy arms and equipment abroad if Russia has analogs or more modern models. But Russia will find it hard to compete with Western firms that are cooperating with each other. Makarov cited Renault's APC which uses a Volvo engine. "Our producers need to make a revolutionary leap," Makarov concluded.

Renault | Russian Defense Policy

So I am thinking Renault's AMC...

The turret looks like it can mount Russian cannons easily.

 

[kaustav2001]

I assume whatever it is will have the BMP-3 turret. Sagem has already integrated systems for the UAE upgrade. Not to mention Russians seem to want to stick that turret on every tracked IFV. I think that is a little heavy to stick on a VAB replacement and we already developed the CT40 turret.

The VBCI mated with the BMP 3 turret should be a pretty interesting.

 

[Akim]

The VBCI mated with the BMP 3 turret should be a pretty interesting.

The turret of BMP-3 'Bakhcha-U "- very large. IFV must have a minimum not less than 2,9 m.

 

[Armand2REP]

BMP-3 turret is large but they fit it in small BMD-4 with height only 2.45m.


It can fit in VBCI. It looks like good firepower but Vlad said the 2A72 has low penetration compared to Western guns. VBCI has the Dagger turret with high velocity 25mm the same as M1 Bradley but it needs more firepower. With the 2A72 being so ineffective I really want to have the CTA 40mm. It is compact with high velocity 40mm rounds no longer than 30mm, programmable ammunition types and is state of the art. It gives large ammunition load in compact space and can penetrate up to T-55 armour at good ranges. The 100mm mortar of BMP-3 makes up for lack of 30mm punch but it is hard to acquire a target quickly. You most likely drop a round within 3-5m first shot and it is only HE. CT40 swivels and turns you into suisse cheese. BMP-3 carries Arkan which can easily defeat any IFV armour at its max range, but with smoke grenades it is not guaranteed like cannons. But it does leave it able to tank on Soviet era tanks which Dagger turret can't do. CT40 only cuts up to a T-55 so MMP missiles would need to be added.

 

[Damian]

I suspect that Russian might need help with these projects of universal combat platforms.

Tracked light/medium weight UCP Kurganets-25:

Gur Khan attacks!: Средняя гусеничная межвидовая платформа "Курганец-25"

Wheeled light/medium weight UCP Boomerang:

Gur Khan attacks!: Средняя колесная межвидовая платформа "Бумеранг"

 

[methos]

Seems like France wants to export the VBCI...

 

[Damian]

Interesting, VBCI integrated with Hitfist-30 turret.

However, it is possible to move from driver and standard for French VBCI commander positions to the vehicle rear? Hitfist-30 have much bigger basket than Dragar turret, and it might be problematic.

 

[Armand2REP]

Interesting, VBCI integrated with Hitfist-30 turret.

However, it is possible to move from driver and standard for French VBCI commander positions to the vehicle rear? Hitfist-30 have much bigger basket than Dragar turret, and it might be problematic.

VBCI 30 with Hitfist is offered as a dual proposal for the Canadian CCV programme.

Hitfist is fully installed on VBCI 30 and trialed at Aberdeen testing grounds. It fit with slight modification. Since it takes the two man Histfist it should take a BMP-3 turret.

 

[Akim]

BMP-3 turret is large but they fit it in small BMD-4 with height only 2.45m.

Sizes BMD-4
Length of corps, mm 6100
Width of corps, mm 3114
Base, mm 3323
Track, mm 2700
Ground clearance, mm 190.590

 

[Akim]

It can fit in VBCI. It looks like good firepower but Vlad said the 2A72 has low penetration compared to Western guns. VBCI has the Dagger turret with high velocity 25mm the same as M1 Bradley but it needs more firepower. With the 2A72 being so ineffective I really want to have the CTA 40mm. It is compact with high velocity 40mm rounds no longer than 30mm, programmable ammunition types and is state of the art. It gives large ammunition load in compact space and can penetrate up to T-55 armour at good ranges. The 100mm mortar of BMP-3 makes up for lack of 30mm punch but it is hard to acquire a target quickly. You most likely drop a round within 3-5m first shot and it is only HE. CT40 swivels and turns you into suisse cheese. BMP-3 carries Arkan which can easily defeat any IFV armour at its max range, but with smoke grenades it is not guaranteed like cannons. But it does leave it able to tank on Soviet era tanks which Dagger turret can't do. CT40 only cuts up to a T-55 so missiles would need to be added.

The 30-мм cannon of 2А42(72) are not intended for a fight against tanks. Their task fight against light armored, infantry and helicopters Therefore her бронепробия, even seizes old shells for these aims. Such description as avtomatic cannon of the is yet important as the mass of second volley. GSh 6-30, which set on MiG-27 and has a speed of 5100 rounds / minute

"breaks" at firing from above turret of Т- 55(62) and М- 60
30 - mm cannon 2A-42 (72) is very accurate and she does not yield and even excels any Western automatic cannon caliber 25 mm.
But cannons such as 30 mm Breda - Mauser and Bushmaster II - she yields practically on all indexes. But these cannons were created specially for fight with light armored and setting in towers. And cannon of designer of Nudelman 2А42 - aviation.

up 2A42,
down 2A72

 

[methos]

Russian 30 x 165 mm often has only steel-cored AP/APDS rounds. Some small company from east europe did advertise a tungsten-cored full-caliber AP round with the same penetration as Russian APDS on their website.

 

[Akim]

Russian 30 x 165 mm often has only steel-cored AP/APDS rounds. Some small company from east europe did advertise a tungsten-cored full-caliber AP round with the same penetration as Russian APDS on their website.

http://www.mecar.be/data/115685648930mmM929.pdf

 

[methos]

That is a Belgian company and an APFSDS... not a full-caliber AP round which performs as good as the crappy steel-cored 3UBR8.

PS: Armand exaggerated, 40 mm CTA can not perforate a T-55 frontally at normal combat ranges.