Russia Formalises Su-35 Offer To India

arya

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hi

i want to know how much differnet b/w su 30 and su 35 in technology and other field

50 su 35 will be good as compare to 50 su 30

select the best of best

jai hind
 

Vladimir79

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Canards don't imply a massive increase in RCS. Else, Rafale, Gripen and EF-2000 would not have had them in the first place.
Canards were removed from SU-35BM to reduce RCS. Su-35BM Frontal RCS is 1m^2, Su-30MKI is 10m^2. This increases exponentially on the vertical aspect. While Su-35BM has RAM, composites, and refinished inlets, a large part comes off the canards, up to 35%.

It would no be feasible. Working on the Su-35 to match IAF requirements would take a long time and also a lot of money. IAF works on a budget, they will not afford to maintain 50 odd Su-35s along with 230MKIs. It will simply be a lot cheaper to go for 50 more MKIs instead.
Probably so, IAF's loss.

We are getting PAKFA anyways. So, the BM will not be a wonder.
BM has many of the systems being incorporated into PAK FA, it would be good for doctrinal and tactics training in preparation.
 

p2prada

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Canards were removed from SU-35BM to reduce RCS. Su-35BM Frontal RCS is 1m^2, Su-30MKI is 10m^2. This increases exponentially on the vertical aspect. While Su-35BM has RAM, composites, and refinished inlets, a large part comes off the canards, up to 35%.
True. But, 1m2 is not stealth. The MKI upgrades will make it stealthy, though not to the level of the BM. MKI will incorporate similar RAM coating and composites. The composites level may be more than BM too, if HAL has their way.

Probably so, IAF's loss.
Both are excellent fighters. No airforce in the world can afford every new plane that comes out every few years.

I know the BM is better. But, the enemy has nothing good enough to counter the MKI itself, so why go for something that will be overkill just for a few years when we are only a decade away from inducting another fighter which will be far, far superior to anything flying in PAF or PLAAF.

BM has many of the systems being incorporated into PAK FA, it would be good for doctrinal and tactics training in preparation.
Tactics, Doctrine and training will need to be re-written once the PAKFA comes in. The MKI can incorporate BM or PAKFA avionics too.
 

AJSINGH

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True. But, 1m2 is not stealth. The MKI upgrades will make it stealthy, though not to the level of the BM. MKI will incorporate similar RAM coating and composites. The composites level may be more than BM too, if HAL has their way.



Both are excellent fighters. No airforce in the world can afford every new plane that comes out every few years.

I know the BM is better. But, the enemy has nothing good enough to counter the MKI itself, so why go for something that will be overkill just for a few years when we are only a decade away from inducting another fighter which will be far, far superior to anything flying in PAF or PLAAF.



Tactics, Doctrine and training will need to be re-written once the PAKFA comes in. The MKI can incorporate BM or PAKFA avionics too.
any new aircraft needs new tactica and operational doctrine .IAF has not yet mastered MKI . so new aircraft will obviously take time
what we need is quality edge over china not quantity . few but advance aircraft will do ....not large number of aircraft but technological inferior
 

SATISH

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Quantity has its own quality.People please ont forget it...we do need adequate numbers.
 

bhramos

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these are not cheap quality or quantity like PLAF has in its arsenol ,
these are Technologically high pecies that count on every thing, in war,
these Su-35's can change the war results.
anyway 1 squadron doesnt make a bulk or quantity.
 

StealthSniper

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Quantity has its own quality.People please ont forget it...we do need adequate numbers.

Yes that's a good point. Anyways I think we don't need to talk about us getting SU-35 right now. We are getting 50 more SU-30 MKI and the technology of the MKI will increase over time. But once we get the PAKFA then we will get all the technology incorporated on the SU-35 and then some. So all we need is to upgrade the SU-30 as usual until PAKFA comes.
 

StealthSniper

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few but advance aircraft will do not large number of aircraft but technological inferior

I am very confused also. Please check your spelling and grammar before posting, it would make everybody's life easier.:help:
 

ppgj

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Probably so, IAF's loss.
would agree particularly looking from the pov of 35bm being single seater where as our mki's are all 2 seaters. that also takes care of pilot shortage problems IAF is facing.
but if it is only for one squadron, does not somehow convince me.
 

VayuSena1

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The latest purchases are just a stopgap until PAK FA is available. We will be replacing hundreds of aerocraft with it including MiG-31 and Su-27. Total demand will be well over 400 frames. By 2020 most of our fleet will be unservicable.
Vladimir,and your government better hurry it fast. Russian air force is only a shadow of its Soviet ancestor today. Infact, there have been a lot of incidents and accidents happening in VVS in the recent years and most of the aircraft have already crossed their service limits barring a few late additions. Since Russian economy has picked up once again, I think it is about time Mr. Medvedev starts taking the future of VVS seriously. MiG-29 rusting away, engines falling of Il-76s, Su-27s crashing.. this is quite alarming considering Russia's desire to project power on a parallel level of Soviet Air Force.

The only reason why Europe and NATO worry about Russia today is their quantity and good flying skills. Barring that, the West has moved on really fast and ahead and if Russia has to remain as the "alternative power" to United States, They will need to replace their Su-27s with the Su-35 BMs, the MiG-29s with the MiG-35s and the Foxhounds with PAKFA as soon as humanly possible.

It is a lot of expense for the Russian government but expense is better than an insecure state.
 

dineshchaturvedi

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Vladimir,and your government better hurry it fast. Russian air force is only a shadow of its Soviet ancestor today. Infact, there have been a lot of incidents and accidents happening in VVS in the recent years and most of the aircraft have already crossed their service limits barring a few late additions. Since Russian economy has picked up once again, I think it is about time Mr. Medvedev starts taking the future of VVS seriously. MiG-29 rusting away, engines falling of Il-76s, Su-27s crashing.. this is quite alarming considering Russia's desire to project power on a parallel level of Soviet Air Force.

The only reason why Europe and NATO worry about Russia today is their quantity and good flying skills. Barring that, the West has moved on really fast and ahead and if Russia has to remain as the "alternative power" to United States, They will need to replace their Su-27s with the Su-35 BMs, the MiG-29s with the MiG-35s and the Foxhounds with PAKFA as soon as humanly possible.

It is a lot of expense for the Russian government but expense is better than an insecure state.
When a countries economy goes as bad as Russia, it takes time to recover. They are all aware of where they stand but they need to wait. It was blessing in disguise for us, as we got an opportunity to partner them. They will soon come back.
 

Vladimir79

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Vladimir,and your government better hurry it fast. Russian air force is only a shadow of its Soviet ancestor today. Infact, there have been a lot of incidents and accidents happening in VVS in the recent years and most of the aircraft have already crossed their service limits barring a few late additions. Since Russian economy has picked up once again, I think it is about time Mr. Medvedev starts taking the future of VVS seriously. MiG-29 rusting away, engines falling of Il-76s, Su-27s crashing.. this is quite alarming considering Russia's desire to project power on a parallel level of Soviet Air Force.
Russia has no desire to project power of the Red Army. Su-27 crash was a collision, not a fleet issue. Our frontal aviation frames are still within their service lives. The increased incidence of accidents is due mainly to the increase of average flight hours to 100 per anum. The more you fly the more likely you are to have a problem. Maintenance programmes are recieving increased funding to deal with the issues. If you look at USAF you will find they have similar problems such as grounding F-15, F-22 and C-130 fleets and continous F-16 crashes. It is a fact of life for active airforces.

The only reason why Europe and NATO worry about Russia today is their quantity and good flying skills. Barring that, the West has moved on really fast and ahead and if Russia has to remain as the "alternative power" to United States, They will need to replace their Su-27s with the Su-35 BMs, the MiG-29s with the MiG-35s and the Foxhounds with PAKFA as soon as humanly possible.
Europe and NATO worry about Russia because they can't do anything to stop us. While their puppet state in Georgia begged for help all they could do was sit by and watch it be dismembered. NATO is a disfunctional allegory of a past age. The only real power in it that can do anything is USA and their hands are tied for the indefinite future. The future of VVS is not acquisition of thousands of fighters, most of the VVS will be U(C)AV based.

It is a lot of expense for the Russian government but expense is better than an insecure state.
The near term future of VVS can be seen in the production lines recently openening up. Mi-28N@Rosvertol, Su-25BM@Ulan Ude, Ka-52@Kazan, Su-34@Novosibirsk, MiG-35@Sokol, Su-35BM@KoA, Yak-130@Irkut, IL-76TD@Ulyanovsk. Just this year we have ordered over 100 new kombat aerocraft. MiG-31BM, Su-27SM, and Su-24SM modernisation programmes are going well. Strategic bombers and airlift are getting life extension and PGM upgrades. A-50M modernisation is finishing up. JSC has been reorganised, corruption being cut from top down, $20 billion in recapitalisation, and recruitment programmes for young engineers established. State defence order is fully funded and people are being prosecuted at records rates leaving the message corruption will not be tolerated. Between India, Ukraine, and France we have several joint projects like heavy lift helicopters, Medium strategic transport, An-124-100, An-70 production. For fans of the VVS, this is the best year since the fall of the CCCP.
 

wild goose

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Shape Up Or Lose India

October 30, 2009: The Russian government has warned the managers of state owned defense firms that they must improve their quality control, or face budget cuts, not to mention losing their jobs. The government was particularly upset with the problems developers of the new generation jet fighter were having.

For example, earlier this year, one of the two prototypes of the Russian Su-35 fifth generation fighter crashed on takeoff . The cause was a problem with one of the two engines. A third prototype is already under construction. Russia had hoped to have the destroyed prototype fly over the May Day parade in Moscow on May 1st. The crash is really bad PR, since one of the consistent shortcomings of Russian warplanes has been unreliable engines.

Last July, this long promised Russian answer to the F-22, the Su-35, had its first flight. In late 2007, the Russian Air Force showed off the first of two flyable prototypes. It was three years ago, that Russia announced its long promised Su-35 fighter, was back in development again.

The Su-35 is an enhanced Su-30 (itself a development of the Cold War era Su-27), and has been in development since the 1990s. At one point, it was called the Su-37, but the name was changed back to Su-35. Since the 1990s, time, many Su-35 prototypes were built, and apparently no two were identical. There were many disagreements over what direction the development should take, and by the late 1990s, the project was basically suspended for lack of funding. But now India has agreed to invest money, and other resources, to move the Su-35 project forward.

The Russians want to sell Su-35s to China, India and other foreign customers, and this Indian offer turned the cash flow back on. Apparently Russia now has the billions of dollars it will take to carry out the Su-35 development program. India has become a partner, not just an investor contributing cash. India will also suppy technology and manufacturing capability.

The Su-35 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the original, 33 ton, Su-27, and has much better electronics. It can cruise at above the speed of sound. It also costs at least fifty percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a barebones model), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the F-15, which is larger than the single engine F-16. The larger size of the Su-27/35, allows designers to do a lot more with it in terms of modifications and enhancements.

The Su-35 is to have some stealth capabilities (or at least be less detectable to most fighter aircraft radars). Russia is promising a fighter with a life of 6,000 flight hours, and engines good for 4,000 hours. Russia promises world-class avionics, plus a very pilot-friendly cockpit. The use of many thrusters and fly-by-wire will produce an aircraft even more maneuverable than earlier Su-30s (which have been extremely agile).

The Su-35 is not meant to be a direct rival for the F-22, because the Russian aircraft is not nearly as stealthy. The Su-35 will carry a 30mm autocannon (with 150 rounds) and up to eight tons of munitions, hanging from 12 hard points. This reduces stealthiness, which the F-22 and F-35 get around by using an internal bay for bombs and missiles. But if the maneuverability and advanced electronics of the proposed Su-35 live up to the promises, the aircraft would be more than a match for every fighter out there except the F-22. If such an Su-35 was sold for well under $100 million each, there would be a lot of buyers. Russia says it will begin production, and sales, in three years.

But these development problems with the engines, and other components, not only look bad, but are delaying production, and those lucrative export deals. Russia is particularly worried about India, which has been a major export customer for decades. Western manufacturers are becoming increasingly attractive to India, despite higher prices. The Western equipment has a better reputation for reliability and combat effectiveness. If India becomes disillusioned with Russian military technology, it will be a major blow to Russian arms exports.

Procurement: Shape Up Or Lose India
 

Vladimir79

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How many times do I have to tell you Strategypage is worthless? India hasn't spent a dime on Su-35 and isn't going to now with Su-30MKI extension. 117S has already gotten the contract for 98 engines. Stay away from Strategypage articles --- they are for morons
 

venom

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Almost all of the latest tech in Su-35Bm will find its way in Su-30Mki during MLU.....
 

p2prada

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The strategy page article is completely wrong with regards to India. Su-35 is not the PAKFA and the Su-35 has no Indian funding. Goes on to show the quality of the article.
 

wild goose

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How many times do I have to tell you Strategypage is worthless? India hasn't spent a dime on Su-35 and isn't going to now with Su-30MKI extension. 117S has already gotten the contract for 98 engines. Stay away from Strategypage articles --- they are for morons
Comrade,P2P,

Thanks for pointing out the facts, may be they mixed up PAK FA with Su35.

Probably still under cold war hangover.

Cheers.
 

Agantrope

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Comrade,P2P,

Thanks for pointing out the facts, may be they mixed up PAK FA with Su35.

Probably still under cold war hangover.

Cheers.
It is not mixing up of product.

India has nothing to do with the PAK FA :twizt:. Based on PAK FA UAC and HAL will develop FGFA.

Funding for Su-35 is a different program. It is in the cards.:dfi-1:

I lost the link sometimes back and unfortunately deleted my history and searching for that.

Thought my info my info may be wrong also. Please throw some more info on this 2 things (FGFA and Su-35):help:
 

sandeepdg

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I think spending money on buying a squadron of SU-35s is not worth it. There's no substantial upgrade in the SU-35BM as compared to the SU-30MKI, the main difference being the improved Irbis-E phased array radar and the AL41F1A powerplant, and satellite navigation systems, all of which can be integrated into the MKI with some modifications.
 

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