Russia cannot give India sophisticated Stealth Technology

[lcafanboy]

Israelis pioneer the use of Drones in warfare and show it to the world how to win wars against all odds with limited resources. Then know how to improvise.


For ex when the world denied them heavy artillery to fight a war against Arabs they figure the the cheap alternative by themselves by developing a 160 mm Heavy mortar M 66.


They helped India during Kargil and now majority of our critical surveillance and other equipments on LoC are of Israeli origin helping us winning the attrition war against Pakis.


LORROS, ELM/ 2140 etc you name it .........

Actually the same zeal is absent in India (very sad to say). We should have a national mission to make India self sufficient in various technologies come what may, (BUY if someone is ready to give, STEAL if no one is ready to share like china does). We succeeded with NUKES & MISSILES because it was denied and question of our survivability was at stake. The same zeal is absent in other weapon development. At least army should be import free for a start. Sadly we still import ammunition which is low hanging thing.

Congress govt destroyed MIC so it can keep on importing weapons and make money out of it, the BaBoons to got their share and everyone was happy. And all this is now coming to haunt us, with world becoming unpredictable by each passing day.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Bro, in this day and age, it makes no business sense to sell its tech to Russia. Give me one logical reason why would they? Doesn't make sense at any level.

I have said this before and I'll say it again. It's like the bloody IIT screening tests. You HAVE to put in the effort for it. Only then you will get through. I hope atleast now, HAL and DRDO get in full swing for developing the required tech. We will finish in 20 years if we start now.

It's not about brakes on our advancement. We have to do our homework. I support DRDO fully but can you put your hand on your heart and tell me it's. It like other govt Organisation? No red tapism and babuism? How can we point gingers at others when our own Organisations are faulty ? Forget tech, atleast process wise, are we as good as, say BAE Or LM or Rafael?

Can someone tell me in reasonable terms on what grounds we can just ask countries to transfer fifth gen tech just like that to us? An industry which they have spend decades in time and billions of $$ in research?
If you owned a business running cutting edge tech, why would you just give it away ?

Only our own effort that we put now will help us in the long run. Nothing else. We can't expect any bleeding edge tech transfer from US or Russia. If someone thinks we will get it, they are naive.

Babuism is there but it's decreased now and about fifth gen technology I think you forgot that we also co developed FGFA we also poured in Billions of money
And we are getting close to bae systems remember even bae systems didn't developed typhoon and f-35 lighting 2 by themselves there were atleast 3 or 4 companies involved in developing it

 

[lcafanboy]

Russia announces deepest defence budget cuts since 1990s
Craig Caffrey, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
16 March 2017


Figures released by the Russian Federal Treasury have confirmed that Russia's defence budget has been cut by 25.5% for 2017, falling from RUB3.8 trillion (USD65.4 billion) to RUB2.8 trillion.

The reduction represents the largest cut to military expenditure in the country since the early 1990s.

The reduction follows an extended period of large increases to Russian defence spending with growth having achieved an average rate of 19.8% a year since 2011 in nominal terms. Despite the cut, the 2017 budget will remain about 14.4% higher than the level of defence spending seen in 2014 in nominal terms.

The Russian government initially outlined plans to reduce defence expenditure in the draft of the three year budget for 2017 to 2019 released in October 2016.

http://www.janes.com/article/68766/russia-announces-deepest-defence-budget-cuts-since-1990s

HUGE 25% cut in defence expenditure by Russia.

Now the question is would Russia be able to complete PAKFA on time or not and could we get FGFA on time or not?
And can Russia let go Indian funds and participation in it PakFa & FGFA development?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

fifth gen technology I think you forgot that we also co developed FGFA we also poured in Billions of money

We were never involved in FGFA's development, we were just funding it for no reason. Russia has utilized us only as an ATM Machine.


We have nothing on name of fifth generation except a few avionics and a model of our plane.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

We were never involved in FGFA's development, we were just funding it for no reason. Russia has utilized us only as an ATM Machine.


We have nothing on name of fifth generation except a few avionics and a model of our plane.

GOI isn't that dumb Russia would give us atleast some TOT our defense minister isn't that dumbass Antony Russia would not risk alienating BHARAT

 

[lcafanboy]

We were never involved in FGFA's development, we were just funding it for no reason. Russia has utilized us only as an ATM Machine

Apart from initial $2 or maybe $20 million (I don't know which figure is correct but it is definitely between these either 2 or 20) signing amount for participation and intent to buy no funds have been released to Russia. They did try their best to get money from India but IAF was not allowed to fly PAKFA so IAF objected to govt. for any further funding until the picture (abilities of PAKFA) is clear.

 

[Bornubus]

Now the question is would Russia be able to complete PAKFA on time or not and could we get FGFA on time or not?
And can Russia let go Indian funds and participation in it PakFa & FGFA development?

PAKFA is Junk stealth fighter. Better for India to JV. The only true stealth fighter up and running is F 22. US has credible stealth tech derived from years of research and operational stealth Bombers.

India is looking for a true stealth fighter not an agile manoeuvring Jet with stealth features.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

GOI isn't that dumb

Yes off course, that's why they are stepping back now.
It's UPA who brought us in problem & NDA is pulling out.

Russia would give us atleast some TOT

Haan, usme khush ho jaiyo, last ToT they did give us was a tank gun barrel after crying for 10 years.

Now, they will probably give for landing gear
Aur tu naach padega!

PAKFA is Junk stealth fighter. Better for India to JV.

Both are Junk. Difference is that one is flying in air and other on paper.

I know which one I have to choose.

(Hint: No JV exists, it's pure funding intended by Russia for project but not involving in any development.)

 

[Krusty]

Babuism is there but it's decreased now and about fifth gen technology I think you forgot that we also co developed FGFA we also poured in Billions of money
And we are getting close to bae systems remember even bae systems didn't developed typhoon and f-35 lighting 2 by themselves there were atleast 3 or 4 companies involved in developing it

Co developed FGFA? Let's be honest... Russians developed (still in development) PAKFA. We just gave money and stood in the sidelines waiting for PAKFA to mature. FGFA is an MKI version of PAKFA. Which means our FGFA project fully depends on the maturity of the single seat PAKFA. The. We go on to add Israeli and French subsystem and convert to twin seater version. So exactly which component of FGFA are we contributing?

The most important stuff (airframe, engine, avionics, RAM) are developed by the Russians which we want them to give TOT.

Bro, we aren't really contributing anything except money and waiting for them to develop a mature single seater design so we can MKI it.....

As for BAE.. I was saying process wise. which means 0 babuism bro... tech wise I understand we have a while to catch upto them. The first step in solving a problem is to accept you have one...

 

[Adnan Jumean]

american and chinese have better stealth fighter jet technology, this is why Iran has stopped buying russian defence equipment and is making its own.

 

[Krusty]

american and chinese have better stealth fighter jet technology, this is why Iran has stopped buying russian defence equipment and is making its own.

American, probably yes. Chinese somehow I doubt. They have not released any specs. No data. Nothing to actually determine their capability. Given that this is their first time, I'd be inclined to say they have NOT nailed it. Regardless, they are well on their way. They have the resources in place to get what they want.

 

[Razor]

Russia announces deepest defence budget cuts since 1990s
Craig Caffrey, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
16 March 2017


Figures released by the Russian Federal Treasury have confirmed that Russia's defence budget has been cut by 25.5% for 2017, falling from RUB3.8 trillion (USD65.4 billion) to RUB2.8 trillion.

The reduction represents the largest cut to military expenditure in the country since the early 1990s.

The reduction follows an extended period of large increases to Russian defence spending with growth having achieved an average rate of 19.8% a year since 2011 in nominal terms. Despite the cut, the 2017 budget will remain about 14.4% higher than the level of defence spending seen in 2014 in nominal terms.

The Russian government initially outlined plans to reduce defence expenditure in the draft of the three year budget for 2017 to 2019 released in October 2016.

http://www.janes.com/article/68766/russia-announces-deepest-defence-budget-cuts-since-1990s

HUGE 25% cut in defence expenditure by Russia.

Now the question is would Russia be able to complete PAKFA on time or not and could we get FGFA on time or not?
And can Russia let go Indian funds and participation in it PakFa & FGFA development?

Correct me if I'm wrong but most of its defence equipment, Russia buys internally.
And now the RUB can buy more than it could last year. So this means even though there seems to be a cut, the impact will be limited, not as much as one would expect from a 25% cut.

 

[Razor]

american and chinese have better stealth fighter jet technology, this is why Iran has stopped buying russian defence equipment and is making its own.

Are you sure Iran has stopped buying Russian stuff??

...................................

 

[Adnan Jumean]

Are you sure Iran has stopped buying Russian stuff??

...................................

yes they are now far more self suffecient in producing their defence products then before.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Co developed FGFA? Let's be honest... Russians developed (still in development) PAKFA. We just gave money and stood in the sidelines waiting for PAKFA to mature. FGFA is an MKI version of PAKFA. Which means our FGFA project fully depends on the maturity of the single seat PAKFA. The. We go on to add Israeli and French subsystem and convert to twin seater version. So exactly which component of FGFA are we contributing?

Didn't we gave composities for the FGFA
And we poured Billions of money into it It wouldn't be any mkised version of it

Haan, usme khush ho jaiyo, last ToT they did give us was a tank gun barrel after crying for 10 years.

Getting something is better than getting not getting anything at all they would give more TOT than that landing gear only
See I am not whole heartedly defending the Russians you know I acknowledge that these Russians have fooled us in the past and bribed our ministers

But we cannot back out of the project now we have poured billions of money into it man

 

[su35]

Didn't we gave composities for the FGFA
And we poured Billions of money into it It wouldn't be any mkised version of it

Nope Russian feels that we are still not capable. They want their PAK FA to be purely russian so at the time of war they do not to dependent on other for supplies or agreement. Russia thinks that India can be easily bent down during war by west so they do not want our product installed in their machine @Indx TechStyle correct me if I am wrong

 

[Krusty]

@Hemu Vikram Aditya i find it hard to believe that India contributed something towards the project interns of tech that the Russians didn't have or couldn't do it themselves.

@Indx TechStyle saar, am I wrong?

That aside, remember the huge mess up that was the T90 gun ToT?

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Nope Russian feels that we are still not capable. They want their PAK FA to be purely russian so at the time of war they do not to dependent on other for supplies or agreement. Russia thinks that India can be easily bent down during war by west so they do not want our product installed in their machine @Indx TechStyle correct me if I am wrong

But we are making FGFA as a Jv contradictory to the myth
pak fa and FGFA are diffrent from each other

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

@Hemu Vikram Aditya i find it hard to believe that India contributed something towards the project interns of tech that the Russians didn't have or couldn't do it themselves.

SEE THIS
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-fifth-generation-fighter-110010600047_1.html

 

[su35]

But we are making FGFA as a Jv contradictory to the myth
pak fa and FGFA are diffrent from each other

well as per my knowlege FGFA is a twin seat version of PAK FA with Indian Isreal and French tech installed but I may be wrong