no smoking
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Riots in East Turkestan: Future of Uighurs
- Thread starter LETHALFORCE
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That is the bane of democracy.
China is a great country. They kill their children with milk laced with melamine!
A lovelier country!!
RAY, No matter how much I don't like your points, but I like your words. funny.
The melamine is not the fault of the government, while they should take some resbonsibilities.
In China ,all minority people could have 20 extra points or more in extrace exam. Also, as a privilege ,provinces of minority ,where entrance exam to college much more easier,also exclude students from developed east area .
In my college, when a Uigur student and a han student qurrel over something , later the Uigur stu called up his friends ,all Uigur men, to beat the han stu, very badly. When the han stu ，together with his friends went to the schoolmaster, he just say that it is a matter effecting people uniting, so they couldn't do anything to the Uigurs. all I said is truth, I swear to ur god,which my father believes too. see :? they have quite a lot of benefits from their minority identity.
In fact ,all u indian guys seems to be quite prode of ur democracy and always look us as brainwashed. In fact ,as a ordinary Chinese college graduate, like most of my classmate, we don't care so much about democracy. I read quite a lot of books, especially from Europe and Japan, and I don't think people living there would be like a heaven or will feel so happy. Most Chinese tend to be interested economy and things like this. as to the democracy , we'll look to it when we surpass America.
The melamine is not the fault of the government, while they should take some resbonsibilities.
In China ,all minority people could have 20 extra points or more in extrace exam. Also, as a privilege ,provinces of minority ,where entrance exam to college much more easier,also exclude students from developed east area .
In my college, when a Uigur student and a han student qurrel over something , later the Uigur stu called up his friends ,all Uigur men, to beat the han stu, very badly. When the han stu ，together with his friends went to the schoolmaster, he just say that it is a matter effecting people uniting, so they couldn't do anything to the Uigurs. all I said is truth, I swear to ur god,which my father believes too. see :? they have quite a lot of benefits from their minority identity.
In fact ,all u indian guys seems to be quite prode of ur democracy and always look us as brainwashed. In fact ,as a ordinary Chinese college graduate, like most of my classmate, we don't care so much about democracy. I read quite a lot of books, especially from Europe and Japan, and I don't think people living there would be like a heaven or will feel so happy. Most Chinese tend to be interested economy and things like this. as to the democracy , we'll look to it when we surpass America.
asheng312 please introduce yourself at the member introductions thread
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It does not astonish me that you don’t find my points responsive to your sensibilities. Truth is always difficult to accept!
Am I to understand that there is no government mechanism overseeing the health of the Chinese people by monitoring the quality of industrial products? Maybe you are right, given the number of mining accidents in China and none cares. Or, for that matter hiding the SARS epidemic form the Chinese people and so on. Of course, let anything negative happen, it is not the fault of the Govt – it is fault of the Chinese people, right? They should have been more careful! Even the problems in Xinjiang and Tibet are not the fault of the govt. It is the fault of the splittists, right? BTW, why have they become splittists when you claim that China is a land of milk and honey?
Minorities sure get extra points to join University. I agree that it is the case. You fail to mention the catch that they must know Mandarin!! A next way to ensure that they forget their own language and study Mandarin and master it, at the expense of their language!! Culture and religion is being crushed under the boot and that requires no elaboration. In short, a neat way to Hanise the minorities!! Clever, clever, clever!!
It is all humbug that Uighurs gang up and beat the Hans. Urumchi, which is a Uighur area, has a majority population of Hans. It surprises me that you claim that the Uighurs can trash the living hell out of the Hans! Are you copying Hans Christen Andersen and passing it off as original Chinese as you have done by passing off the Matiz car as Cherry and calling it as your original!!
In my country, religion, culture, language, etc cannot be tampered with. It creates immense problems. But then we are a democracy and we have to live with it since the individual’s right cannot be suppressed!
I am sure you would not care for democracy. Did you read my post on the conditioned Pavlovian dogs? They were conditioned to respond to stimuli. The Communists have conditioned the minds of the Chinese to respond to stimuli. Yes, money is your God. You are right that American and European don’t think they are living in Heaven. Money is not everything. Have you seen how many Americans are going for alternate religions for spiritual solace?
Good for you that you can surpass the US. Yet, they are millennium ahead of you!
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asheng,
You may prefer Pavlovian conditional reflex.
Our ethos is well summed up by our poet Nobel Laureate Rabindranath Tagore who wrote:
Where the mind is without fear and the head held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by Thee into ever-widening thought and action;
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
You may prefer Pavlovian conditional reflex.
Our ethos is well summed up by our poet Nobel Laureate Rabindranath Tagore who wrote:
Where the mind is without fear and the head held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by Thee into ever-widening thought and action;
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
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in fact, Uyghrur student can apply to speical ethnic college without studying Mandrin . however, after graduating without studying mandarin, Uyghurs student will have lots of difficulties in finding jobs in CHina.
So non-mandarin-speaking schools are not attrative to Uyghurs in fact in china.
as I repeatd agains that agains, it is market economy and hunger for better jobs that drive Uyghurs to study Mandarin, just as it drive your Indian to study English.
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Really?
By using Uighur Language and Tibetan, they will get a job?
Come again!
If they could, then why are they so disgusted with life?
Yes, English is important for jobs but abroad. In our govt, it is trilingual – English, Hindi and local language. One can answer Central examinations in any of the 14 recognised languages!!
You are Communists and have no spiritual guidance and so you are materialistic and so your thirst for better jobs and creature comforts.
We have religion and that is a great help. We don’t run after creature comfort. In fact, the westerners who have all the creature comforts come to India for spiritual re-awakening and cleansing of the soul and mind!!
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anyhow, it is fair that guys that know two or more languages can get better jobs than guys that know only one languages, isn't it?
that is why so many indians study english .
but why do you think that Uyghur's studying Mandarin should be "Han's evil" while Indians studying english is good?
that is why so many indians study english .
but why do you think that Uyghur's studying Mandarin should be "Han's evil" while Indians studying english is good?
LETHALFORCE
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badguy this is more a question of integration, how do you integrate an islamic population to be a part of Chinese pork eating society when it never was?
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BG,
Indians learn English as it makes them competitive in global market. Even the CCP recognizes thst and has started programs to teach it's citizens English. But there is no force to learn thst language. It's by choice. It doesn't effect job chances in India as any local language is good enough. English just gives them the edge.
But the Chinese are forcing mandarin on minorities to finish off their language and also their culture.
Indians learn English as it makes them competitive in global market. Even the CCP recognizes thst and has started programs to teach it's citizens English. But there is no force to learn thst language. It's by choice. It doesn't effect job chances in India as any local language is good enough. English just gives them the edge.
But the Chinese are forcing mandarin on minorities to finish off their language and also their culture.
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The issue is not the number of languages that one has to learn.
Hindi is our national language and we learn that, but we also learn English (so that we can communicate internationally) as also our native language (so that we don't forget our native culture).
That is the difference!!
No one forces us to learn Hindi or make Hindi the only language to get a job!!
And no one crushes our language, culture and religion and make us zombies!!
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carrots and sticks
or in another word:
containment and engagement
muslims don't eat porks? just tell them that pork is very delicious...lure them to taste porks.
In fact, many Chinese young muslims don't care to eat porks,
I had some mulism collegemates .they just pretended not to eat porks in the front of their parents or other old muslims. one minute after their parents leave, they had porks watching TV with me .when 2000 Eurocup Football was on.
As we know, Figo's had a perfect performance during 2000 Football Eurpcup ...He kicked the ass of Beckham.
At that time, my muslim college-mates and I were all the fans of Figo
LETHALFORCE
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badguy stop taking an adverserial approach to people who are considered your fellow countrymen, china has prospered economically share some of your prosperity a simple and practical approach.
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well, rich and civilized life-style is natively attrative to humankind,incluidng Muslims and non-Muslims.
If one society can prove its life-style is more richer and civilized than others, then the members of other societies will naturely study its life-style.
That is why so many Indians and Chinese are eager to get green cards of USA....just because USA can provide them richer and more cilivized life-style.
If one day Chinese can provide its citizens better life quality than all other countries, I do think that many yankees will be eager to get Red cards of CHina,let alone CHinese muslims.
I'm not saying that the mechanism in China is perfect ,in fact no country can be perfect. While we are developing, anything bad happens, we 'll find the reason and make changes. As u say ,the gov hide SARS from people, then what about this time ,the bird flu, the gov take a lot of measures to let the public know everything and protect people from getting affected. see the history of Europe, America, in the process of their developing ,a lot of unhuman evil things happened, a lot of people died ,at that time, they believe the same god u believe now. Did they ever care about human life and rights ? Does splittists exist only in our country ? In ur democracy country and quite a lot of countries, doesn't it exist ?If not ,why U india depart from UK? why ireland depart from UK ? why does there still exist so many splittists in France and other countries ?
Minorities can get extra points ,no matter they know Mandarin or not. In my college , students from Xinjiang have to spend one year studing Mandarin first. If not ,how could they study in my college ,where quite a few of them are there ? how could they live and communicate with others ? anything wrong learning Mandarin ? Mandarin is becoming more and more popular all over the world.korea, America, Japan,......U mentioned culture, well ,we hans have our traditional culture, but now ,where are they ? men used to see a long hair as their life thing. there are a lot of people who preferred suitciding to getting their hair cut. and girls like to have their feet wrapped to a tiny one. and now what ? No man would ever do this. why ?because we are westernized. a more civilized culture become ours. in fact ,people in Xinjiang are westernized, to live a more reasonable and civilized life.
well, all I said is the truth that happened arround myself ,I saw with my own eyes. I have sweared to ur god, My father believe this when I was 9 years old till now. In fact ,nowadays a lot of hans tend to believe in western god. It is not a matter of majority population or not, yes ,hans population is much biger. while it doesn't mean hans can treat Uighurs badly, in fact ,quite contrary, the Uighurs use their identity to do bad things. lots of times. when a thief steal something from others, he will surely be punished. while when a Uighurs steal from other, he will be set free. and when they get involved in a fight ?they will also be set free of punishment. why ?u surely can't understand. because they are the minority. they could effect the People uniting in our coutry. this is the gov attitude. so ,in most cases, we hans do feel unfair.
In fact, I don't believe in any god myself. Like a little child, he may have quite a lot of desires, many of them are wrong, which should be forbidden. in China ,people have their religion freedom too. If u look down upon money, I really admires u much. man can't live without it . see the history, economy things can be got from centuries. why democracy can be realized in a few years. When we got final success in economics, we will look into democracy. this is the same way Singapore, Japan and quite a lot of other country prove themselves successful. See the African countries ? they succeed in democracy, while how many centuries will they succeed in economics ?God knows ..
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In the process of developing, Europe and the US may have gone through great injustices. But does that mean that their experience and incorrect attitude should not teach us and instead just because they have done it, it means we too can do it? I don’t think so. One has to learn from others’ mistake too!
Insurgents exist in many developing countries including India and they are being helped by outside interests. But in a democracy, everything that is happening is known since the media is open and none can gag them. In China, the media is of the State and only news that the CCP wants is known. When the Tibetan riots were on, the foreigners and foreign media was expelled and the CCP carried out huge repression that was only known through clandestine means. If such means were not used, none would know of the horrible repression done by the CCP.
We did not leave the UK. India was not a part of Great Britain, it was a part of the British Empire. We were different people. We won our independence.
The Irish, Scots, Welsh, Celts etc are the people who make up the UK. The Irish separated because they were Catholics and they did not want to be under Protestant rule.
No. learning Mandarin is not wrong. It fact it is good to know as many languages one can learn. The issue is that it should not be forced, directly or indirectly. The operative word is – Forced! If one cannot get a good job or go to university just because they don’t know Mandarin, it means forcing one to learn the language by indirect pressure!
Not having long hair or small feet is because Mao forced the people to change. It has nothing to do with becoming westernized. It is part of Mao intelligent ways to tell the condition the Chinese people to realize that Mao’s diktats were the last word in everything. Hair and feet etc has nothing to do with becoming more civilized! Next, someone will say that not eating dogs (as the Chinese do) is a sign of the Chinese being civilized! There are many people in the world, including China, who think the dogs are a delicacy as some feel that frogs legs or eating snails (as in France) is a delicacy!
I am not saying that the Uighurs can do anything they like and that has to be accepted. But if the Tibetans and the Uighurs want to maintain their own religion, culture and language, then it would be wrong to wipe such things out. It is like forcing a Muslim to eat pork. Just because the Hans love eating pork, if you force the Hui to also it pork, they will rebel.
Of course, all countries want to unite their countries, but countries that are multi lingual, multi cultural and multi religious have to be more cautious while handling the minorities. One cannot force them to conform to the wishes of the majority.
In China, the so called religious freedom you have is under State supervision. Controlled religion. The Bishops are selected by your Govt; in fact on this issue there was much problem with the Vatican and the Pope. The CCP selects the Christian priest, the Muslim Imam and the Buddhist priests. All sermons are checked by the CCP apparatchik. That is no religion! That is why there are underground and illegal prayer meetings held in houses of Christians and Muslims. In Xinjiang, Muslims below the age of 18 are not allowed to attend the Mosque or have recourse to Islamic teaching. .
Money is important in life, but to abandon basic human morality and lust only for money is not the right approach. Today, Russia and China are where they are is all because money making was pushed in the background and nation building was made the credo by ruthless dictators. And so a decadent people were herded to work for the State and the State looked after their earthly need. It is not idea, but people who are bone lazy possibly deserve such a shake up. It was not difficult for these dictators of USSR and Mao’s China because they did not know democracy in the first place. They were all under various rich landlords.
The lust for money and making money as the sole purpose of life leads to some getting rich and some remaining poor. Such disparity is what cause revolutions!
Already there is discontent between the people of rural China and the urban China, between western China and Coastal China!
no smoking
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Pls allow me to answer this question.
This reason doesn't exist in any chinese mind. Democracy means the majority will rule the minority. As long as the han chinese still consists more than 90% of population, any province independence will be impossible.
The reason we don't choose democracy now is we have more urgent subject: developing economy. Even today, there are milions people in poverty. There are still thousands of children can't get good education. We realy need to do sth for these peole. Democracy is good thing, but it will delay the assistance to these people. Just as india, they enjoy the democracy from the begainning. But they spend almost 50 years figuring out how to develop their country. In china, most parents realy don't have that patient to wait 50 years.
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What you are right now is not because of your system but visoin of one man, Deng. He started the reform process. It was not like this from the beginning of communism in China. If you had another Mao, after Mao, China would not have been what it is today. It all boils down to the will of the ruling powers. The West developed being democracy. India too develops. The pace of the economy in the last 20 years has taken us where we are today. All because our current PM who was the finance minister in 92 kickstarted reforms. 12 years after Deng did the same in China.
The difference is going to be in the longer term when your frustrated lot will start to revolt and the CCP will keep crushing it. That's when you will have a major problem. Things can fall apart then.
In India people raise their voice everyday and they font have tanks facing them when they do.
