Riots in East Turkestan: Future of Uighurs

Ray

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Han culturism differentiates between the culture of the Han, the inner people (nei ren) and the barbarians, the outer people (wai ren). This concept is a hand me down from the time of the Shang Dynasty, who political centre was located North of the Yellow River.

The Chinese differentiate between raw barbarians (shengfan) or the unassimilated people and the “cooked barbarians” (shufan) or those who were assimilated and yet were not the Han people e.g. the Han Chinese separated the ‘cooked’ Li of the coast of Hainan from the ‘uncooked’ Li of the central forest.

Barbarians were given generic names in the Chinese classics and histories: the Yi barbarians to the East, the Man to the South, Rong to the West and Di to the North.

Until the 1930s, the names of the outgroups (wai ren) were commonly written in characters with the animal radical: the Di, a northern tribe were linked to the dog; the Man and Min of the South were characterised with reptiles; the Qiangs were written with a sheep radical. This reflected the Han Chinese conviction that civilisation and culture were linked with humanity; alien groups living outside the pale of Han society were regarded as inhuman savages.

The custom of sharply distinguishing between the inner and outer people went along with the calling China the Middle Kingdom (zhong guo) , which began by ruling the Central plain (zhongyang) in North China. Rather than using outright military conquest, the theory of ‘using the Chinese ways to transform the barbarians (yongxiabianyi)’ was promulgated. By cultural absorption or racial integration through intermarriage, a barbarian could become a Han Chinese (Hanhua).

Excerpted from:

An Ethnohistorical Dictionary of China
http://books.google.com/books?id=IOM8qF ... t#PPA95,M1

Sun Yat Sen, the founder of Chinese Republic overthrew the Qing Dynasty which ruled over all of China from 1644 to 1911 and proclaim when he launch his rebellion against the Qing Dynasty which was ruled by Manchus:

“ In order to restore our national independence, we must first restore the Chinese nation. In order to restore the Chinese nation, we must drive the barbarian Manchus back to the Changbai Mountains. In order to get rid of the barbarians, we must first overthrow the present tyrannical, dictatorial, ugly, and corrupt Qing government. Fellow countrymen, a revolution is the only means to overthrow the Qing government!
 

EnlightenedMonk

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Well cry me a river. Some kids are forced to have lunch during Ramadan.

Modern culture is coming to Xinjiang Autonomous Region and Tibet Autonomous Region, and some backward unemployed are claiming this is destruction of their backward culture. China is not going to put up with that garbage. Modernization and capitalism is our way.
You are no one to judge their mentality and their culture... Why do you claim that their culture is backward ??? Because you think your own culture is modern... because you have a gun in your hand, and they don't...

Am I right ???
 

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Well cry me a river. Some kids are forced to have lunch during Ramadan.

Modern culture is coming to Xinjiang Autonomous Region and Tibet Autonomous Region, and some backward unemployed are claiming this is destruction of their backward culture. China is not going to put up with that garbage. Modernization and capitalism is our way.
What the hell? C++ is written in English, not Chinese.
 
S

SammyCheung

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You are no one to judge their mentality and their culture... Why do you claim that their culture is backward ??? Because you think your own culture is modern... because you have a gun in your hand, and they don't...

Am I right ???
Because we 3G cellphones, PS3 and DSLR cameras.... shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, nightclubs.... we have civilization.

They are subsistence farmers who live in mud huts.
 

EnlightenedMonk

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Because we 3G cellphones, PS3 and DSLR cameras.... shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, nightclubs.... we have civilization.

They are subsistence farmers who live in mud huts.
I see... very good and colourful explanation... so you think that material culture is everything, don't you???

That's exactly what I wanted to know about your mindset...

Let me tell you Sammy, there are things much beyond 3G cellphones, broadband internet, nighclubs and strip-bars... and that thing is called CULTURE... I'm sure the ancient Chinese about 500 years or even a 100 years ago didn't have 3G cellphones, broadband, nightclubs and strip-bars, would you say then that you were uncouth barbarians???

There are things much beyond all this material stuff and it is called CULTURE, SOCIETY AND CIVILIZATION... I hope you grow up and learn to appreciate that...

May I suggest that you goto the rural areas shedding ALL your inhibitions and live the simple life with some farmers over there and you will appreciate the finer things in life, you will appreciate their culture, their feelings, their social values and their simplicity... and, may I also suggest that you leave your 3G cellphone and your laptop at home and live with them forgetting your nightclub escapades and your strip-bar brawls...

If you do this with an open mind, I'm sure you will appreciate them and not say such derogatory, unparliamentary and colourless things about their so-called "lack of culture" and "uncultured" behaviour which no-one but your CCP has decided to arbitrarily decide...
 

Ray

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Sir,
The Hui are Han. They're Han Muslims but they're Han.
I know.

So are those who are not from what is termed as Zhongguo.

The Huis are basically from Ningxia, Gansu, Qinghai.

I don't have the link, but this is from my database.

The Hui Chinese have diverse origins. Some in the southeast coast are descended from Arab and Persian Muslim traders who settled in China and gradually intermarried and assimilated the surrounding population, keeping only their distinctive religion. A totally different explanation is available for the Mandarin Chinese-speaking Yunnan and Northern Huis, whose ethnogenesis might be a result of the convergence of large number of Mongol, Turkic, Iranian or other Central Asian settlers in these regions who formed the dominant stratum in the Mongol-founded Yuan Dynasty. However, even Cantonese Muslims, of the southeastern coast, typically resemble northern Asians much more so than their typical Cantonese neighbours.

It is documented that a proportion of these nomad or military ethnic groups were originally Nestorian Christians many of whom later converted to Islam, while under the sinicizing pressures of the Ming and Qing states. Therefore they are what could be called shufan or cooked barbarians.

I don't find the Chinese Govt's attempt to sinicise these outregions of Tibet and Xinjiang. It is just an extension of what was done in the past, where the so called barbarians were assimiliated through marriage, cultural pressures, etc.

It is just that these days there is a whole lot of media watch and so the issues are highlighted.
 

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If you do this with an open mind, I'm sure you will appreciate them and not say such derogatory, unparliamentary and colourless things about their so-called "lack of culture" and "uncultured" behaviour which no-one but your CCP has decided to arbitrarily decide...
And here is where you fall into the same trap as this young lad did.

The CCP is far more sophicated than that ... though not as sophisticated as they like to believe.

But the gist of this is that they alone, CCP, are going to feed you. The others will give you dreams but only the CCP has plans to feed you.

And the sad truth is that, the CCP is right. They're the only organization in China concerned about food.
 

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I know
...

It is just that these days there is a whole lot of media watch and so the issues are highlighted.
Sir,

I know you can and do appreciate the difference but we have to distinquish between the Uyghars and the Hui even though both are Muslims.

The problem is not between Hans and Muslims. It is a problem between Han and Turk.
 

Ray

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It is unfortuante that Sammy feels that Gizmos are signs of civilisation.

The greatest gift that one should remember China for is her Civilisation, which is unparalleled!

Revel in your civilisation since that is your heritage and not glitzy malls and cellphones!
 

Ray

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Sir,

I know you can and do appreciate the difference but we have to distinquish between the Uyghars and the Hui even though both are Muslims.

The problem is not between Hans and Muslims. It is a problem between Han and Turk.

If I may respectfully disagee.

It is just that with the current feeling that Islam is under attack, there is an Islamic Reawakening. Therefore, they are jealously guarded their singularity and difference, assisted by Islamic organisations worldwide.

Further, in this attempt to Sinicise Tibet and Xinjaing, in this modern days where people are sensitive about their culture and religion, highhandedness is not being taken as acceptable and hence the rebellions.

This subnationalism is a worldwide phenomenon.

There is much mineral and oil in Xinjiang. However, the jobs are being taken by the Hans and the menial work is left to the Uighurs, likewise in Tibet. Obviously, the discontent will be there.

The higher education including is in Mandarin. Thus, those who wish to do well, have to learn Mandarin and hence the local language is killed and sinicising the population is evident!

So, the grouse.
 

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Sir,

Since you've raised Tibet, then I must point out to you that the Hui was the one leading the charge against the Tibettans and not the Han.
 

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No, they and the Tibetan don't think so.

They feel that they are different people and have nothing to do with China.
Not actually correct, Sir. They don't feel they have anything to do with Ming China onwards but the Dali Lama owes his existence to the Yuan.
 

Ray

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Sir,

Since you've raised Tibet, then I must point out to you that the Hui was the one leading the charge against the Tibettans and not the Han.
The Hans were there.

The some foot soldiers were Huis and the Huis are shufans!

What difference does it make?

We can debate, but not change the world!
 

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What difference does it make?
Sir,

The difference is to understand the divide and rule strategy of the CCP. I've sent you an article about the Chinese strategy in controlling the Uylgars. It has clearly failed but we need to understand the failure points rather than to give blanket statements about the CCP's cunning or the stupidity of the Uylgars and the Tibetans or refusing to modernize.

We can debate, but not change the world!
But we can learn to see mistakes.
 

Ray

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Well cry me a river. Some kids are forced to have lunch during Ramadan.

Modern culture is coming to Xinjiang Autonomous Region and Tibet Autonomous Region, and some backward unemployed are claiming this is destruction of their backward culture. China is not going to put up with that garbage. Modernization and capitalism is our way.
Sammy,

Money and gizmos to many in this world is not the be all and end all of life.

Solace is.

Some find it in religion and some find it in meditation. Or else there would be no monks, bikshus, nuns, priests, or sadhus meditating in the cold and high Himalayas. Or being shut in the temple where Kung Fu started in China.

Therefore, by giving a person a house, car and a mall is not something that can convert their ideas.

Ramadan or Ramzan is big deal for the Muslims and so is Lent for some Christians.

Some Hindus fast once a week for religious religious.

If they wish to 'starve', how does it affect anyone?

Cellphone maybe your idea of modernity. The day I have my private jet, I will think I have arrived! Perceptions!

Let us not judge others by our standards.
 

Ray

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Not actually correct, Sir. They don't feel they have anything to do with Ming China onwards but the Dali Lama owes his existence to the Yuan.
I will visit him (hopefully one day) and check it out from His Holiness!
 

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I will visit him (hopefully one day) and check it out from His Holiness!
My apologies, Sir, I do not mean the current Dali Lama though he does owe his history to the Yuan but I do mean that the Office of the Dali Lama was owed to the Yuan Dynasty.
 

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