Replacing MiG-21 and MiG-27 from Rafale?

sgarg

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There are many things which are not right in India. The attitude of bureaucracy is one of them.

The government uses caution while dealing with many aspects of governing this country. Afterall it is a democratic country where difference of opinion is allowed.

However Rafale will be bought not on COAS statement; but on successful conclusion of negotiation.
 

Kunal Biswas

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India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly



NEW DELHI — The Indian government, acting on Air Force demands, has offered to spend $12 billion to encourage private firms to establish an aircraft manufacturing facility — a move that would break Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's monopoly on aircraft manufacturing after years of delays on several projects.

Specifically, the Indian government has offered an advance order for the homemade light combat aircraft (LCA) Mark-2, a Defence Ministry source said.

The offer was conveyed to senior private sector executives during several meetings with MoD officials in the last month, the source said. India's private defense majors, Tata Group, Mahindra & Mahindra and Larsen and Toubro, are the most capable of setting up an additional military aircraft plant, either independently or in partnership with overseas firms.

Madhukar Vinayak Kotwal, president, Heavy Engineering of Larsen & Toubro, said, "Since this [building of an additional facility] is a matter currently under discussion at various levels in the government as well as in industry associations, we would like to refrain from giving any comments at this stage."

The LCA, developed by Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The first order for 40 of the Mark-1 version of the aircraft has been given to state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL). The final operational clearance is expected to be granted in 2015, after which the aircraft can go into production.



The Indian Air Force has a future requirement for only the next-generation LCA Mark-2, which would be powered by the higher thrust General Electric GE-414 engine. But the aircraft is still in the development stage and is not expected to be ready for production before 2017-18. The Air Force has a requirement for 250 LCA Mark-2s, which the government estimates would be covered by the $12 billion advance order.



The Air Force has demanded establishment of an additional aircraft facility to break the monopoly of HAL, India's sole military aircraft manufacturer, and has complained of delays in delivery of aircraft.

"It is absolutely essential to set up an additional military aircraft facility here, as HAL is overloaded for the next 10 years and has become too unwieldy," defense acquisition expert Miral Suman said.

Vivek Rae, former director general (acquisition) in the MoD, said, "India sorely needs aircraft manufacturing capability in the private sector. We cannot afford to put all eggs in the HAL basket."

Subhash Bhojwani, retired Air Force air marshal, agreed an additional manufacturing facility is needed, but said HAL should be made more commercial.

"HAL is into the design and contemporary manufacture of fighters, transports, trainers and helicopters, as well as avionics and engines," he said. "It is possibly the only company in the world to be so diversified. However, while this may sound good in a book of world records, it isn't good as a commercial model."

Defense analyst Amit Cowshish, a retired Defence Ministry bureaucrat, said the objective should be "not to create an entity that could compete with HAL but to have additional capability in India to manufacture aircraft so that the requirement, both of the military and civil sectors, could be met in a more cost-effective manner and in shorter time frames. Of course, competition would help in improving HAL's efficiency."

India's private sector is able to set up such a facility, and could acquire the capability to build the LCA Mark-2 over time, but it could be a challenge, Cowshish said.



"LCA is a program & HAL and DRDO have worked hard on it, and the final operational clearance is expected sometime later this year," he said. "To bring in a new manufacturing agency at this stage may not be a very good idea. Though it is possible to pass on the technology to the private industry for manufacturing the aircraft, selecting such an agency may turn out to be a [technically] tricky affair."

Defense analyst Rahul Bhonsle said, "Setting up a new military aircraft facility is no doubt a Herculean task. But the new facility will be looking primarily at system integration."


Source : India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly | Defense News | defensenews.com

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IAF is planning to operate 14 sqadron of Tejas of both MK1 & 2 >>

In a written statement tabled in the Lok Sabha on Monday, Antony's deputy, Jitendra Singh, stated, "The MiG-21 and MiG-27 aircrafts of the IAF have already been upgraded and currently equip 14 combat squadrons. These aircraft, however, are planned for being phased out over the next few years and will be replaced by the LCA."

India's own fighter, the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), is playing a growing role in protecting Indian airspace. On December 20, when the Tejas was cleared for operational service in the Indian Air Force (IAF), Defence Minister A K Antony declared 200 Tejas fighters would eventually enter combat service. Today, that figure quietly swelled to well above 300, with the government indicating the IAF would have at least 14 Tejas squadrons.

Each IAF combat squadron has 21 fighter aircraft; 14 squadrons add to 294 Tejas fighters. The 21 comprise 16 frontline, single-seat fighters, two twin-seat trainers and three reserve aircraft to make up losses in a war.

So far, the IAF has committed to inducting only six Tejas squadrons — two squadrons of the current Tejas Mark I, and four squadrons of the improved Tejas Mark II. In addition, the navy plans to buy 40-50 Tejas for its future aircraft carriers.
Source : IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs | Business Standard News

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Either its by mistake or IAF is behaving like a spoiled brat asking for more toys ..


Aero India 2015: Indian Air Force chief adds to MMRCA confusion - IHS Jane's 360

ACM Arup Raha mentioned that MiG-21 and MiG-27 were retiring soon, so he needed an MRCA aircraft to replace them. This was his justification for purchasing MMRCA or Rafale aircraft which he needs ASAP. The problem in his argument is that he is mixing light and medium category of combat aircraft. This way he is asking for a medium aircraft for replacing a light one.

Indian Air Force has following aircraft in its medium combat category:-

Mirage 2000 (being upgraded) - 50+ aircarft
Jaguar (Being upgraded) - 127 aircraft
MiG-29 - 65+ aircraft

These three aircraft will be in service till 2035-40 with upgrades, i.e. before AMCA comes into service, which will replace them.

IAF needs to urgently replace MiG-21 and MiG-27 with a light attack aircraft for taking care of CAP, point defence and CAS duties. Hence, it's quite unusual why ACM Raha is insisting that he needs a MMRCA/Rafale to replace these light attack aircraft? Will anyone ask IAF this question?
 

sgarg

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The IDSA analysis projects 60-65 combat fighter squadrons by 2032. This number is possible ONLY by massive ramping up of LCA Tejas numbers. There is no other way.

ADA must give Mark-2 very high urgency like target roll-out in 3-4 years. The changes between mark-1 and mark-2 (IAF version) are minimal so this can be achieved.

HAL focus meanwhile should be to complete Mark-1 order of 2 squadrons.
 

anoop_mig25

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Kunal Biswas

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Tejas almost 40% are manufactured by Pvt firms, Very limited ToT is shared with Private industry ..

Private co, main objective is to do quality manufacturing and fast ..

Even if its good move , would it be good to hanover all techonoligies form ADA,Hal ,drdo to private entities who havent done any hard work research ..al this years of hardships of DRDO,HAL,ADA would go waste if they are forced to share all this with private firms without any profits or share
 

sgarg

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Even if its good move , would it be good to hanover all techonoligies form ADA,Hal ,drdo to private entities who havent done any hard work research ..al this years of hardships of DRDO,HAL,ADA would go waste if they are forced to share all this with private firms without any profits or share
Private company is typically given fabrication work. Some LRUs may have been designed and produced by private sector. There is no TOT as you indicate.

If a private company is given assembly of the aircraft, the parts may still come from multiple public/private sources. Aircraft manufacturing is quite complex.
 
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