Replacement for Mi-24: The JV solution

[jackprince]

Da I didnt claim LCH is better than AH-64 .... I said its better option for India which ur point itself proved... how am i wrong??????
As LCH will be equally deadly at each and every front.....
One platform at all fronts.....

Actually, you are wrong only in the sense that by calling LCH better than Apache in Indian perspective, you are somehow undermining the danger of the western front. In western front, against a armoured column of the enemy, Apache with its fire control radar (which LCH doesn't have) and the weapon load of 16 hellfire (LCH can carry 8) is way more effective than LCH. So, if we see from the perspective of western front (western front having seen most of the armoured battle in history as well chance of so in future) Apache trumps LCH any given day. You have to consider that if one weapon platform carry double the load of another platform requiring same no. of crew, the 1st one is way better than the 2nd as it saves time, as well manpower.

Hence, we cannot and shouldn't make a sweeping judgement that LCH is better than Apache for India - as in whole of India.

For northern border and NE, LCH is going to rule it.

 

[Pulkit]

Rudra is a stop gap until LCH available in mass and its design to operate over high altitudes, AH-64 purchase was made to replace aging MI-25/35 fleet and to operate over thar and most of western sector until LCH available in Mass,LCH is the gunship which can operate without any modifications in all terrains of India with full efficiency, Nor Rudra or AH-64 can operate in different terrain without modifications, For example >>

1. To Operate AH-64 over High-altitude one may need to reduce the payload ( Fuel + ammo ) or balance as per its task over terrain ..

2. Rudra is not a pure Gunship , It is not design to conduct anti-Armour operations deep into enemy zone which in case of Thar ..

Actually, you are wrong only in the sense that by calling LCH better than Apache in Indian perspective, you are somehow undermining the danger of the western front. In western front, against a armoured column of the enemy, Apache with its fire control radar (which LCH doesn't have) and the weapon load of 16 hellfire (LCH can carry 8) is way more effective than LCH. So, if we see from the perspective of western front (western front having seen most of the armoured battle in history as well chance of so in future) Apache trumps LCH any given day. You have to consider that if one weapon platform carry double the load of another platform requiring same no. of crew, the 1st one is way better than the 2nd as it saves time, as well manpower.

Hence, we cannot and shouldn't make a sweeping judgement that LCH is better than Apache for India - as in whole of India.

For northern border and NE, LCH is going to rule it.

I have just quoted Kunal here when I say LCH is a better option for India....
though I didnt make the comparison you made.... our Nation is land of different terrains and we need a flexible Heli which is LCH nor Apache.... its not custom made for Indian conditions but LC is.....

I am not having doubts about its firepower but as Kunal said it has to compansate with speed and altitude in case of being fully loaded.....

At normal terrain in thar yes it will overpower LCH.... no question about it .....but that does not make LCH less leathal or any less capable....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

For India considering the variety of terrain, where things actually works with efficiency then LCH is indeed better ..

By this are we saying that LCH is better than Apache AH-64 for INDIA?
If yes....

 

[arnabmit]

@pmaitra @Kunal Biswas

My wet dream of Indo-Rus JV of HCH (crude photochop) to replace the Hind. To work in tandem with LCH.

Yes, it was made for Turkey, right?

Just add this type of rigid rotors to it and basic airframe is ready:

Then add the Nose mounted integrated Target Acquisition and Designation Sight, CCD & Night Vision Sensor:

And this mast mounted FCR:

And Chin mounted 30mm autocannon:

 

[arnabmit]

LCH is the king of the mountains!

But for the tank country on the plains, LCH is woefully underarmed, with limited sensors.

India cannot depend on Apache for its needs. An indigenous HCH is needed with high endurance, much greater armament payload and long range sensors.

An HCH which can carry 2 WVRAAM, 6+6 ATGMs, rocket pods and a HMD-slaved chin-mounted GSH-23-2 or GSH-30-2 gun together, along with long range optical sensors & fire control radar.

 

[smestarz]

We should not buy a helicopter because it is used by America or it is the best, but we should buy as per the military doctrine specially with eye on future 5-10 years ahead.

Now, APACHE 64E, Mi-28, Ka-50 etc are heavy helicopters which specialize in battlefield support or rather Anti armour helicopter. These are heavy and very capable and can carry weapon load of about 2 tons or 16 anti tank missile,

Now the limitations of these helicopters is that they are not very fast or maneuverable, on other hand a light helicopter is ideal for the mountainous region where being able to have an aerial firepower is very important.

Thus if i am the decision maker,

I would procure heavy anti armour helicopter to reinforce or replace the MI-24/35 that India is using now but primarily using it as Anti armour helicopter but on the other hand the LCH or LAH should be used as light support helicopter to give them firepower at operational (company level) to prevent any breakthrough. also in north of India we cannot deploy The heavy helicopters because they do not have a real benefit there but the LAH or LCH will be able to be more effective.

Also the one advantage that MI-24 helicopter is that it is not only an anti armour helicopter but it can deploy a ground team or help to rescue ground forces. Thus there are 3 types of helicopters

a) Specialised attack Anti armour helicopters APACHE 64E, Mi-28, Ka-50
b) Attack + Support helicopter Mi-24/35 and weaponized Blackhawk
c) Light attack and fire support LCH and LAH

We have to use combination of all three. but the first two category, we best have aerial refueling capability in order to give them capability to be in the area for longer time,

 

[pmaitra]

@arnabmit, good idea. What is the armour of that helicopter? Is it at least as good as the Mil-24/35? That one has one of the best armours in helicopters.

I like the coaxial rotor system, although it might make the helicopter very expensive.

I agree we need an HCH for the plains like we have the LCH for the mountains. I don't think using HCH and LCH in tandem is a good idea.

@smestarz, yes, upgrading our existing Mil-24/35 is a good idea. In anti-armour role, Apache is good. The weapons carried by Apache is the strength of Apache, not the helicopter by itself.

 

[JBH22]

Make in India solution.

Get MIL to produce its Mi-28 and Mi-17 with an Indian partner to produce the same here.

Mi-28 incorporates all the lessons learned in afghanistan war that the Mi-24 brilliantly fought.

 

[arnabmit]

@arnabmit, good idea. What is the armour of that helicopter? Is it at least as good as the Mil-24/35? That one has one of the best armours in helicopters.

Titanium alloy tub with protection upto 12.7mm, standard for attack helos.

I like the coaxial rotor system, although it might make the helicopter very expensive.

IN uses a lot of Kamov helos, even the upcoming LUH is from Kamov, so cannot be that costly!

I agree we need an HCH for the plains like we have the LCH for the mountains. I don't think using HCH and LCH in tandem is a good idea.

Maybe like the MKI-Tejas pairing. Doctrines evolve. Not that they has to be used in tandem.

 

[Kay]

@pmaitra @Kunal Biswas

My wet dream of Indo-Rus JV of HCH (crude photochop) to replace the Hind. To work in tandem with LCH.

Needs a little Comanche like stealth and S-97 raider like push propeller and speed