Reforming Hinduism

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,504
Gandhi's movement was not exactly top down. Raja Ram Mohan Loy's reforms would be better classified as top down movements.



I think the reason is slightly different. You mentioned South India not having the Chaturvarna system.

So there is no section of society which can be called Dalits ? In other words,there is no Dalit population, but only Shudras ? (and Brahmins of course)
Discrimination does exist in south.But the hitch is most of the dalits and are ex-kshatriyas who were forcefully made to loose their priveleges by employing them in skinning and tannin works.The Pallar caste in TN are actually Pallavas in a similar vein the Mala and Maadars are exemplary soldiers.The Thevars/Mukulatoors are Cholas who were classified as criminal tribes by the british
 

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,504
That sentence is quite correct. Some SC-ST politicians who have risen as powerful community leaders are squandering away their position. I was thinking of BSP supremo Mayawati here. She is a smart and shrewd politician but who has been very corrupt as well. If she had been another Narendra Modi or Nitish Kumar, very successful Chief Ministers, that would have been such a brilliant example for the SCs.
In the next election UP wallahs will straight away choose Mayawathi over Mulayam.Mayawathi is not exactly corrupt it takes money to run a party such as BSP where she is the sole supremo
 

parijataka

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
4,916
Likes
3,751
Country flag
Perhaps compared to SP goons and buffoons she is less corrupt. She did in fact give better administration than SP, I'd have been happy if she had been re-elected. In any case SP and BSP between the two share most of the UP vote.
 

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,504
From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 33, Dated August 22, 2009
CURRENT AFFAIRS
special report

In The Temple Of Your Gods

Tamil Nadu's radical attempt to train dalit priests has been hijacked by prejudice. SANJANA tracks the differing impact on the lives of the young novices
Just say no VA Kannan, Chief priest,Sri Parthasarathy Swami temple Chennai is opposed to the government order
Photos: S RADHAKRISHNA

BRAHMINS WERE created by God to serve them. How can we (non-Brahmins) ever say or do anything that questions that?" Twenty-four-year-old Saravanan Subramanian displays a ready subservience to the highest Hindu caste. Ironically, however, Saravanan is part of a radical social transformation programme that is designed to break one of the last remaining Brahmin bastions – a monopoly over priesthood.

In a pioneering move by the government of Tamil Nadu, a May 2006 government order declared that "suitably trained and qualified Hindus, without discrimination of caste, creed, custom or usage" were to be appointed as archakas (priests) to any of the 36,000 temples under government administration across the state. These temples include the revered Meenakshi temple in Madurai, the Murugan temple in Palani, the Parthasarathy Swamy temple in Chennai and the Ranganathaswamy temple in Srirangam. For generations, these Shaivite and the Vaishnavite temples have been exclusive Brahmin bastions and have followed the hereditary principle of succession when it comes to the appointment of priests. This bold order made it possible for dalits to officiate in these prestigious temples.

In 1970, an amendment to the Tamil Nadu Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments Act abolished the hereditary appointment of temple archakas, stating, "No person shall be entitled to appointment to any vacancy"¦ merely on the grounds that he is next in the line of succession to the last holder of office." The 2006 order extended the order passed 30 years earlier. In May 2007, the Tamil Nadu government set up six archaka training centres across the state, which offered a year-long certificate course in agama sastras (priesthood studies).

The centres were attached to major Shaivite and Vaishnavite shrines such as the Parthasarathy Swamy temple and were governed by the state's Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments (HR&CE) Department.

Advertisements inviting applications to the free year-long course at one of the six centres were published across the state, promising students a monthly stipend of Rs 500 and a job at a government- administered temple when they finished the course.
Brahmin priests at the Madurai Meenakshi temple have challenged the order

Chief Minister M Karunanidhi claimed that the order fulfilled Dravidian leader Periyar's desire to remove caste barriers. The promise of a job and the offer of a monthly stipend for students had the desired effect. Out of a maximum intake of 240, 207 students passed their examinations. Only three of the 207 were Brahmins. TEHELKA spoke to Arun Kumar (see box), who was the only Brahmin in his batch of 36 – and the only one among them to get a job as a priest. He revealed that while he had remained aloof and guarded in the beginning, he gradually became friends with his backward caste and dalit coursemates.

Unfortunately, despite long historical precedence, the government's attempt to bring to fruition Periyar's struggle against caste discrimination in temples has met with its share of social and legal obstacles. On the legal front, several petitioners, including the Adi Saiva Sivacharyargal Sangam — a group of hereditary priests at the Madurai Meenakshi temple — have challenged the order in the Supreme Court. They claim that the order appointing archakas to government-run temples irrespective of their caste violated Articles 25 and 26 of the Constitution, which grant the right to freedom of religion. A stay on the appointments has been granted and hearings are on.

SOURCES IN the HR&CE department say that long-running legal battles weigh down the government. "We expected some sections — primarily those affected by the order — to rise up in revolt. But there are earlier Supreme Court judgments on the matter: in 2002, the Supreme Court upheld a Kerala High Court judgement that Hindus, regardless of their caste, could be appointed as priests. And even earlier, in 1972 there was a judgement with specific reference to Tamil Nadu. Despite all this, we have a battle on our hands," said an official.
The government has been forced to disband the institutes and suspend the course

Even as the government fights the legal battle, it has been forced to disband the centres and suspend the training course. Even the students who have completed the courses have not been given certificates of completion, let alone their appointment orders. Without this criticial step, almost all of these 207 students are facing social rejection as priests. Jobs at temples are scarce since apart from three of them, these archakas are not Brahmins. Offers to officiate at local religious ceremonies are few and far between and the students are forced to fend for themselves.

In an attempt to understand the relevance and impact of the Tamil Nadu government's intervention, TEHELKA tracked down several youths who had completed their training in June 2008. Their stories speak of the significance of this step in a land deeply scarred with caste bias.

Economic stability and social mobility remain primary motivators despite the different ways that caste and class affect their
Is this thread dead?
Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine
 

LurkerBaba

Super Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
7,882
Likes
8,125
Country flag
Agreed.

Ok let's talk about the need to build institutions.

Judeochristian groups have built some phenomenal state of the art institutions that have benefited the society tremendously. Churches built everything from ivy league universities to primary schools in the remotest regions of the world spreading modern education and spurring scientific development. Every time I look at scientific papers or travel to different American cities I can't count the number of hospitals with names like beth israel or saint ______. There is no question that the West has succeeded due to these types of institutions.

Hinduism and Buddhism too have a rich history of building excellent institutes of education and I think this needs to be revived. The first thing however is to keep the government out of it because involving the GOI pretty much guarantees a paralysis. Numerous wealthy Hindu sects like BAPS and ISKON have opened up malls and other profitable enterprises, which is great because in the real world you can't get anything done without a healthy source of revenue. And I think these organizations have the resources to start opening up a lot of primary education centers that can provide basic education to the people who have no access to it.
I don't think "Hinduism" has a rich history of building good educational institutions. Famous ancient Indian centers of learning like Takshila and Vikramshila were Buddhist.

Although,
IT-BHU, now IIT-BHU
(one of the finest educational institutions in the country) might be similar to what you're thinking.
 

Sabir

DFI TEAM
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,116
Likes
793
I don't think "Hinduism" has a rich history of building good educational institutions. Famous ancient Indian centers of learning like Takshila and Vikramshila were Buddhist.

Although,
IT-BHU, now IIT-BHU
(one of the finest educational institutions in the country) might be similar to what you're thinking.
I havent read the thread in full. But, when you talk about Hindu Educational institutes , first thing comes in mind is the educational institutes run by Ramkrishna Mission (founded by Swami Vivekananda). Another example- Benaras Hindu University. may be you were talking about ancient institutes only.
 

LurkerBaba

Super Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
7,882
Likes
8,125
Country flag
I havent read the thread in full. But, when you talk about Hindu Educational institutes , first thing comes in mind is the educational institutes run by Ramkrishna Mission (founded by Swami Vivekananda). Another example- Benaras Hindu University. may be you were talking about ancient institutes only.
IT-BHU which I mentioned earlier is part of BHU (Benares Hindu University)
 

Energon

DFI stars
Ambassador
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
1,199
Likes
767
Country flag
I don't think "Hinduism" has a rich history of building good educational institutions. Famous ancient Indian centers of learning like Takshila and Vikramshila were Buddhist.

Although,
IT-BHU, now IIT-BHU
(one of the finest educational institutions in the country) might be similar to what you're thinking.
Yea you're right the Buddhists were prolific builders of educational institutions, Hindus weren't. If anything Hindu doctrine was designed to contain literacy and knowledge only to the upper castes.

The IIT-BHU is definitely a step in the right direction. However at this point in time primary education to the impoverished masses is far more important than institutes of higher learning
 

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,504
Yea you're right the Buddhists were prolific builders of educational institutions, Hindus weren't. If anything Hindu doctrine was designed to contain literacy and knowledge only to the upper castes.

The IIT-BHU is definitely a step in the right direction. However at this point in time primary education to the impoverished masses is far more important than institutes of higher learning
Energon I want to know your opinion about how the mutts in Karnataka are playing a role in promoting education.The lingayat,vokkaliga, obc and SC mutts are doing excellent social service there
 

natarajan

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
2,592
Likes
762
First educate children about religion as even i dont know nothing about hinduism just name sake hindu so its the duty of parents to teach their children but nowadays they sent their children to christian school aka missionaries as standard of english is good there but fails that they dont know anything on hindus and they become namesake hindus ,so more than 75 % population in hindus wont knowing exact details .Another thing there are so many gods and tradition mixed with stupid beliefs started by fake swamiyars like nithyanandha make remaining hindu to feel awkward .They are not in a position to answer when questioned by muslims or christians.Next one even i am tired of is pray god at 5 mins by paying 20000rs and wait for 1 day to see from distance , in the hands of government in addition to hundial money ,they are charging like 5 star hotel for other rituals ,ultimately temple money which will be thousands of crores going to govenment and netas pocket unlike churches and mosques.This are just tit bit there are many thing

to be continues ........
 

LurkerBaba

Super Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
7,882
Likes
8,125
Country flag
The more I look at it the Karnataka math srltyle solution seems to be more sustainable in the long term as each community will be compelled to look after its own self-fish needs.This is more so needed because Navayana failed in south-india
One possible problem associated with this model

TUMKUR (KARNATAKA): Congress president Sonia Gandhi on Saturday made an all-out effort to woo Karnataka's Lingayats community back to the party fold. She highlighted Lingayatism founder and 12th century saint-reformer Basavanna's principles and ideals and said the UPA government was trying to give constitutional validity to the philosophy of these saint-reformers.
Sonia tries to woo Lingayats in Karnataka, dalits wave black flags - Times Of India

Each matth may break from the "Hindu" fold and might be given status of a new religion.

IMO communities should look at their own needs, but must agree on some common principles
 

GPM

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,507
Likes
522
The Constitution is the fifth Veda...
What? Vedas cannot be abrogated or amemded, consitution can be.

Who knows thisconstitution is not going to be scrapped in future?
 

panduranghari

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
1,786
Likes
1,245
Hinduism has reformed a million times. Will Christianity/islam reform? Will they respect us and permit us to follow our way of life? Rajivji has a good thread going on about Hindu Character issues which are relevant to this thread.

The only way to reform Hinduism is to learn what Dharma is. Once you understand what dharma is, not only will the ills of society disappear but the islamic, christian and marxist zealots will find it hard to proselytise people.
 

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,504
Hinduism has reformed a million times. Will Christianity/islam reform? Will they respect us and permit us to follow our way of life? Rajivji has a good thread going on about Hindu Character issues which are relevant to this thread.

The only way to reform Hinduism is to learn what Dharma is. Once you understand what dharma is, not only will the ills of society disappear but the islamic, christian and marxist zealots will find it hard to proselytise people.
Premium is placed on clarity of thought in this thread,not philosophical mumbo jumbo.
 

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,504
I want to post info about eminent individual who reformed Hinduism for the better in this thread will start with the 23rd Jain tirthankara
 

panduranghari

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
1,786
Likes
1,245
Premium is placed on clarity of thought in this thread,not philosophical mumbo jumbo.
I find your thought process very purile hence I do not reply to your post(s).

Humans inherently are ignorant creatures. This ignorance is manifested by the continuance of the casteist policies implemented by the politicians. But this is not what we are discussing.

Clarity of thought, eh?

I wonder who was the imbecile who posted this;

Upper caste Hindus must realize service to humanity is service to god
As usual your tirade does not go beyond the conventional reservation policies. Perhaps your outlook to life and also to this thread is a bit narrow. Broaden your horizons, if you can.

You wish to reform Hinduism, do you? Why do you not start with yourself?

The centuries of neglect to 'Dharma', has twisted the traditions of the erstwhile society. Hence we need to study Dharma. The incoherence of this debate of reforming Hinduism originates from the inability to understand what is wrong. How can a doctor provide a cure if the disease cannot be understood. Perhaps you do not agree. But then I really do not care if anyone agrees with me or not. I do not seek approval of anyone. The only people whom I seek approval of is my parents, wife and kids.

There is a good thread on RM Yahoo group on Hindu Character Issues. Its very relevant to this thread.

Rajiv comment: Suppose we accept this analysis of causes (which is similar to what others like JC Pant wrote). Then whats wrong with becoming self conscious of this present condition? How can we remove the malady you describe if we want to remain in denial, if we demand more supply of intoxicants that all is well, faults belong only to others, and if something is to be done its by someone else? Do you notice from the protests here (and 10 times more that dont make it past moderators because they are repetitious) that this community is in denial? What does such denial imply about the character of people?

Its true that we should be conscious of ourselves. 'Swadhaya' should be daily routine of every Hindu. First we have to accept our weaknesses then only there will be space for improvements.

Also these issues will be address by different Hindu individuals in a different ways.
I) One category of Hindus are the one who consider such unethical practices as fair and smart work. They duped others in a transaction and make fortune. Later they narrate these stories in their family/circle/community and will be praised for making fortune and called as "Hoshiyar" rather than a cheater. For such Hindus only family/circle/community matters and rest everything is secondary
II) Second category of Hindu is a honest guy but he is not mentally strong. When he hears about such character of Hindus he get disturbed. His reaction is that all these things are negative and useless. Just be positive and live happily and everything will be fine.
III) Third category of Hindu is the one who is well aware of all these things and he knows almost all the reason of why at individual , social or national level Hindus/Indians are so wrong. But he is frustrated. He listen all these things through spiritual leaders, through social workers like Anna hazare or Ramdev, through media etc. He has listened enough but now he wants solution. He wants action. An average Hindu in this category has lost the confidence in everything. Whether its Government or media or spiritual organization and others.
So you wish to reform Hinduism, then the start should be with understanding what Dharma is all about. If you understand dharma, you will not allow the current political set up to continue.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top