RAW Infiltrates PTV and Pakistani media

johnee

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paaji, this is what has happened, not sure if you followed this or not.

nawaz sharif on pak independence day said PA doesnt need to project india as an enemy any more, when it is not, on the contrary it was time to have better relations with india and have good trading ties with india. the other point being, since pakistan has become independent, the two-nation theory has become redundant and that they should get over with it. imagine a pak politician saying that after general kayani said on the same day that two-nation theory was the very reason why pakistan came into being and is of essence even today.

something that nawaz sharif and his party has been saying for quite sometime now.

this was addressed at a function organised by safma, and the pak based jurnos and other invited jurnos supported this. the safma jurnos on various talk shows discussed this further and endorsed it.

all this didnt go down well with the PA/ISI and soon they had the isi sponsored/funded organizations and individuals start appearing on talk shows and write articles of how safma is raw funded and anti pakistan and they also projected nawaz sharif as a traitor ready to betray pakistan the same way as he did during kargil war.
Without a big bad India, how can PA-ISI's over-arching authority be justified in Pakistan? PA needs India to be enemy.
Two nation theory failed with the formation of BD. Yet, Pakistan's existence(even a pathetic and failed one) is justified only on that basis. Without the two nation theory, the simple question raised in the minds of pakistanis would be: why should aam pakistanis not be part of an increasingly rich, powerful, free, peaceful and developed India and instead wallow in a increasingly failing Pakistan?

What answer can the political establishment of Pakistan give to this simple question that will be inevitably raised by aam pakistanis, if it is accepted that two-nation theory has failed or is redundant...?
 
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thakur_ritesh

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Without a big bad India, how can PA-ISI's over-arching authority be justified in Pakistan? PA needs India to be enemy.
Two nation theory failed with the formation of BD. Yet, Pakistan's existence(even a pathetic and failed one) is justified only on that basis. Without, two nation theory, why should aam pakistanis not be part of a increasingly rich, powerful, free, peaceful and developed India? What answer can the political establishment of Pakistan give to this simple question that will be inevitably raised by aam pakistanis, if it is accepted that two-nation theory has failed or is redundant...?
mate, its a myth that two-nation theory failed with the formation of bd. on the contrary it was a failure to start with when not every muslim from india moved to then west/east pakistan which was projected specifically as a home to indian-sub continent muslims, and then as you said bd happened and not only that, now you have baluchistan as a ripe case ready to be liberated provided the US intervenes, and then there has been nationalist feelings with pashtuns and sindhis.

i dont know how true or false but najam sethis said that ppp, pml-n, mqm and anp have all said it is pointless making india the enemy any more. may be it comes from that fact that these people see the army as anti their interests and they see this as a way via which they could blunt the army and its over involvement on almost everything that happens there officially and if successful politicians then could play a bigger role than one assigned now.

but still for a politician in pakistan to say that two-nation theory is redundant is again no small thing, where anti india sentiments always get played with to garner votes and support and taking a pro-india stand means pretty much ruining you political career and being termed a traitor.

infact starting with raymond davis episode to the obl issue, the army has been on the back foot and a section of media and political parties have decided to expose the army/isi and they have been doing it continuously especially after obl episode. may be they feel encouraged by what happened in turkey and from the latest passage of a ruling by the pak-supreme court that any coup here on will be unconstitutional, the clause where army intervention was allowed under the pretext of safe guarding national interests stands null and void soemthing that happened for the first time since 50s when it was introduced and any judge passing coup as a necessity will be held accountable and tried. and if SC could have its way, they could also musharraf under trial if and when he returns to pakistan.
 

hit&run

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I dont know how true or false but najam sethis said that ppp, pml-n, mqm and anp have all said it is pointless making india the enemy any more. may be it comes from that fact that these people see the army as anti their interests and they see this as a way via which they could blunt the army and its over involvement on almost everything that happens there officially and if successful politicians then could play a bigger role than one assigned now.
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I wouldn't care even if the such sense will start prevailing from the word go. India is a beautiful place to live and a open society where our state has nothing to do with religion but it promises to protect and value the religious diversity and practises.
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At the end of the day its people who have to accept them with the baggage they have. For a secular person like me who respect all religions and have very good knowledge about his own religion, it is just unacceptable to let someone enter in to my premises (for sake of making peace or trade) who hate my religion or my fellow Indian's religion.
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It will take next 3-4 generations to reconciliation with India minus their sense of inferiority complex. Furthermore I wouldn't like a non secular bigot trading with us and benefiting from a liberal society he may find easy to manipulate or exploit like they are doing in western countries. Good or bad keep them away they are not ready yet. They have to come up clear and start respecting Hindus. India is a homeland for Hindus like all other religions and Pakistani Muslims are conditioned to be anti Hindu. It is duty of GoI to protect its citizens from someone who look down upon his citizens and is racist.
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There shouldn't be any compromise at the cost of people of India. We are better insulated; away from them.
 

The Messiah

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This accusation is so absurd that it isn't even funny.

Anyone with a braincell knows that RAW is practically a person who lacks eyes, a backbone and has no arms or legs meaning its simply useless.
 

sandeepdg

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^^ Yeah, if someone really expects RAW to be this capable, they are living in a wonderland or they are utterly stupid ! What achievements can you expect from those who fight over plum postings and opportunity to fill their coffers by swindling from the agency's budget.
 

agentperry

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^^ Yeah, if someone really expects RAW to be this capable, they are living in a wonderland or they are utterly stupid ! What achievements can you expect from those who fight over plum postings and opportunity to fill their coffers by swindling from the agency's budget.
i wouldnt have said that if i was you. i know people in IB who works our internationally, yes intly even IB is meant for domestic services.
they know what RAW is and what raw does. if incapable ISI get exposed everytime then its their fault that they cannot conduct operations with secrecy not ours and in no way they are superior. how many times RAW got exposed in their ops. they didnt. you can also say that they are doing nothing thats why they are not getting exposed but in that way many of the world's intel agencies are sitting in their offices and looting coffers.
think again before speaking. as far as scams are related which country will be supplying us drones with full support like israel with no conditions attached to it and no drum beating. do you think that intel agencies should come out and brief parliament to tell every one that see we need to carry out ops in balochistan and for that we need this much money please pass this bill in parliament and then we see CAG coming out with feasibility report that ops in baluchistan could be done with half the money so we need to cancel the tender and re-issue the tender though there will be delays but work will be completed efficiently.
CAG is a right sometimes but not always.
 

sandeepdg

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i wouldnt have said that if i was you. i know people in IB who works our internationally, yes intly even IB is meant for domestic services.
they know what RAW is and what raw does. if incapable ISI get exposed everytime then its their fault that they cannot conduct operations with secrecy not ours and in no way they are superior. how many times RAW got exposed in their ops. they didnt. you can also say that they are doing nothing thats why they are not getting exposed but in that way many of the world's intel agencies are sitting in their offices and looting coffers.
think again before speaking. as far as scams are related which country will be supplying us drones with full support like israel with no conditions attached to it and no drum beating. do you think that intel agencies should come out and brief parliament to tell every one that see we need to carry out ops in balochistan and for that we need this much money please pass this bill in parliament and then we see CAG coming out with feasibility report that ops in baluchistan could be done with half the money so we need to cancel the tender and re-issue the tender though there will be delays but work will be completed efficiently.
CAG is a right sometimes but not always.
Yeah, well maybe you are right and maybe you aren't. Its just a matter of perception, I guess. But, after all that happened in this country with regards to the terror attacks, I don't have much faith in their capabilities. And 26/11 proved me right !

I agree we hardly ever hear about the capabilities of agencies like MI-6, Mossad, FSB etc., but then we don't even hear negative news like those similar to the CAG reports showing RAW officials engaged in bureaucratic tussles and misappropriating funds, do we ?

Anyway, if you are very regular with the newspapers, then you would have heard people like M.k. Dhar and B.Raman have criticized the agency of being run in a more bureaucratic manner than a professional intelligence agency hampering its growth and capabilities as well as of having very poor HUMINT as compared to rival organizations like the ISI.
 

agentperry

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Yeah, well maybe you are right and maybe you aren't. Its just a matter of perception, I guess. But, after all that happened in this country with regards to the terror attacks, I don't have much faith in their capabilities. And 26/11 proved me right !

I agree we hardly ever hear about the capabilities of agencies like MI-6, Mossad, FSB etc., but then we don't even hear negative news like those similar to the CAG reports showing RAW officials engaged in bureaucratic tussles and misappropriating funds, do we ?

Anyway, if you are very regular with the newspapers, then you would have heard people like M.k. Dhar and B.Raman have criticized the agency of being run in a more bureaucratic manner than a professional intelligence agency hampering its growth and capabilities as well as of having very poor HUMINT as compared to rival organizations like the ISI.
well as far as i have my contacts in IB, former head, so acc to them threats are forwarded to min before they occur but sometimes a day before sometimes a month before or sometimes when they are in planning phase. what anyone can do if you get a threat a day before-nothing. so no need blaming. in case of 26/11 yes that was the time when agencies were caught napping. but you cannot say that future threats werent taken care off. so many attempts took plc but see the rate of success. moreover RAW is for ext intel
 

sandeepdg

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well as far as i have my contacts in IB, former head, so acc to them threats are forwarded to min before they occur but sometimes a day before sometimes a month before or sometimes when they are in planning phase. what anyone can do if you get a threat a day before-nothing. so no need blaming. in case of 26/11 yes that was the time when agencies were caught napping. but you cannot say that future threats werent taken care off. so many attempts took plc but see the rate of success. moreover RAW is for ext intel
I am talking about external intel, and that's why I quoted RAW. I believe the IB is much better run than the RAW and has a much better HUMINT network. All that intel RAW gathers is mostly due to some decent ELINT they have, although nothing compared to the requirements needed for such a huge nation in such a sensitive zone. Compared to the kind of HUMINT that ISI has, I can RAW has at most 25 % of its HUMINT capabilities, and that too in just Pakistan or Bangladesh, Nepal etc. Hardly any in China or in Europe or North America. So it can never be compared to an globally capable intelligence agency like say the CIA, Mossad, FSB, China's MSS, the German BND and of course the ISI, whose reach extends everywhere India's doesn't.
 

Energon

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This is so idiotic it doesn't even deserve a mention let alone a debate. In some ways this Quaraishi chap has attained his objective by ruffling feathers. The best punishment for him is to treat him like he doesn't even exist.
 

Sikh_warrior

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im jealous now.....

pakistanis are now drinking something stronger than what we drink!!
 

sonofindia

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Pakistan is at a very crucial point in its history. It is deeply divided into two different visions of the future. First, of fanatical Islamic attitude with terrorism as its main weapon(represented by Hamid Gul type lunatic militant Pak army men) and the second ,vision of
tolerance, mutual respect and peaceful coexistence (represented by Najam Sethi types) .Fortunately, Pakistan is lucky to have some of the world's highly intellectual and wise journalists who can awaken the Pakistanis brainwashed by its military who used "Hate India" s policy to exploit Pakistani people and live lavish life through huge defense funding. SAFMA is trying to open eyes of an average Pakistani about how he has been used and abused by these narrow-minded, fundamentalist,intolerant bufoons. Most Pakistani women are well aware of the suppression and abuse they have been subjected in the name of Sharia and crazy Islamic laws. They are waiting for their liberation from the chains and controls of fundamentalist,chowunistic ,macho Islamist men who does not believe in equality of gender and mutual respect. First time I am a bit hopeful about future of Pakistan if these new,brave forces succeed.
 
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