Rasgulla: A Bengali creation claimed by Odiyas

Ancient Indian

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Actually we have enough self respect.

I think some people are wondering what we are busy doing. We Bengalis are busy winning Nobel Prizes and composing the national anthems and songs for the nation.

The Jana Gana Mana was composed by Kobiguru R. Tagore and Vande Mataram was taken from Bankim Chandra`s Anandamath. Both were originally written in Bengali.

As for the topic of religion,one should never take it into consideration while judging an ethnicity. Btw we had the greatest reformer of Hinduism,Shri Chaitanya Mahapravu.

Sadly Chaitanyadev was murdered by a group of dim witted ,jealous and potbellied evil Oriya Puri Pandas.

Now for self respect and other such vague terms that had been thrown into this debate. Well if Oriyas had some self respect they should not be singing the national anthem and national song composed by Bengalis in the Bengal language.

Vande mataram

বন্দে মাতরম্৷
সুজলাং সুফলাং
মলয়জশীতলাম্
শস্যশ্যামলাং
মাতরম্!
বন্দে মাতরম্৷.

শুভ্র-জ্যোৎস্না
পুলকিত-যামিনীম্
ফুল্লকুসুমিত
দ্রুমদলশোভিনীম্,
সুহাসিনীং
সুমধুরভাষিণীম্
সুখদাং বরদাং
মাতরম্৷৷
বন্দে মাতরম্৷

Jana Gana Mana

জনগণমন-অধিনায়ক জয় হে ভারতভাগ্যবিধাতা!
পঞ্জাব সিন্ধু গুজরাট মরাঠা দ্রাবিড় উৎকল বঙ্গ
বিন্ধ্য হিমাচল যমুনা গঙ্গা উচ্ছলজলধিতরঙ্গ
তব শুভ নামে জাগে, তব শুভ আশিষ মাগে,
গাহে তব জয়গাথা।
জনগণমঙ্গলদায়ক জয় হে ভারতভাগ্যবিধাতা!
জয় হে, জয় হে, জয় হে, জয় জয় জয় জয় হে।।

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_Mataram
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana
You forgot to use past tense when your painting your glory.

I am not picking fight with you.

I am just pointing the fact. Before independence, bengal is kind of heart to much more hearty patriotic activities. Then it was like disappeared from face of planet.

What the fcuk happened to it?
 

pmaitra

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You forgot to use past tense when your painting your glory.

I am not picking fight with you.

I am just pointing the fact. Before independence, bengal is kind of heart to much more hearty patriotic activities. Then it was like disappeared from face of planet.

What the fcuk happened to it?
Mamata happened.

Not that she alone is to blame. The problem is using armed gangs to run a state, instead of actual governance. At least the erstwhile CPI(M) government had showed considerable progress in agriculture, and had effectively combated the Maoists. With the new CPI(M) government under Buddha, even industries were picking up, and then, so were the Maoists, who not only weakened the CPI(M), but were also beneficial towards Mamata's ascendancy.

With Mamata, neither is there anything to show in agriculture, nor is there anything to show in industries.
 

Ancient Indian

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Mamata happened.

Not that she alone is to blame. The problem is using armed gangs to run a state, instead of actual governance. At least the erstwhile CPI(M) government had showed considerable progress in agriculture, and had effectively combated the Maoists. With the new CPI(M) government under Buddha, even industries were picking up, and then, so were the Maoists, who not only weakened the CPI(M), but were also beneficial towards Mamata's ascendancy.

With Mamata, neither is there anything to show in agriculture, nor is there anything to show in industries.
I am not talking about development sir.

It is about poetry and spirituality and other finer aspects of life.

I yet to see a present day bengali reciting any kind of beautiful poem.
 

pmaitra

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I am not talking about development sir.

It is about poetry and spirituality and other finer aspects of life.

I yet to see a present day bengali reciting any kind of beautiful poem.
Are you a fan of Kumar Vishwas? :lol:

I think the concept of poetry is becoming obsolete in all parts of the world. Who really has time for all this, when you can ogle at big busted silicone babes on TV?
 

Ancient Indian

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Are you a fan of Kumar Vishwas? :lol:

I think the concept of poetry is becoming obsolete in all parts of the world. Who really has time for all this, when you can ogle at big busted silicone babes on TV?
I am not Modern Indian.

I embraced the ancient old shiit like warm coat in winter times.

Since when did enjoying fine literature became AAP related ?

My love for bengali literature comes from your scripting style:



I don't know bengali but your fonts look so beautiful.

I may learn your language in future.

Edit:

Who says it is extinct in west.

ASOIF is best of them. and the the series is still going.
 

pmaitra

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I am not Modern Indian.

I embraced the ancient old shiit like warm coat in winter times.

Since when did enjoying fine literature became AAP related ?

My love for bengali literature comes from your scripting style:



I don't know bengali but your fonts look so beautiful.

I may learn your language in future.

Edit:

Who says it is extinct in west.

ASOIF is best of them. and the the series is still going.
This is fairly recent.

Check this link: https://archive.org/details/originofbengalis00rakhuoft

It is a book by R. D. Bannerjee, the historian who dug out IVC.

You will see there are samples of scripts from Patna, Gaya, Dinajpur, etc., that might be related to the Bengali script.

Another excerpt:
Depending on their geographical dispersion you can categorize two distinct groups. Punjabi, Rajasthani, Gujarati, and Hindi evolved from Prakrit of Magadha and Sindhi Maithili, Assamese, Bengali originated from Shouraseni Prakrit. Konkani belongs to the second group, and hence some scholars regard Bengali or Assamese as the mother of Konkani language. However, in reality the three are siblings of the same (now nonexistent) intermediary parent language. The arguments on the matter continue to generate a lot of response among linguists.
Source: http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/konkani/konkani.htm

And this excerpt agrees with my statement that the Mauryan Empire had the greatest influence on the Bengali script:
The Bengali script has been derived from the Brahmi alphabet of the Ashokan inscriptions (273 to 232BC). History of Bengali language has been divided into three eras – Old Bengali (950-1350), Middle Bengali (1350-1800) and Modern Bengali (1800 to the present day). Old Bengali is survived only through a collection of forty-eight poems (1050-1200) known as the charva songs. These were composed by the siddhacharyas (enlightened ones) who were mainly Buddhist.
Source: http://languages.iloveindia.com/bengali.html
 

Ancient Indian

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This is fairly recent.

Check this link: https://archive.org/details/originofbengalis00rakhuoft

It is a book by R. D. Bannerjee, the historian who dug out IVC.

You will see there are samples of scripts from Patna, Gaya, Dinajpur, etc., that might be related to the Bengali script.

Another excerpt:

Source: http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/konkani/konkani.htm

And this excerpt agrees with my statement that the Mauryan Empire had the greatest influence on the Bengali script:

Source: http://languages.iloveindia.com/bengali.html
Now don't take me wrong.

Why the heck you are giving reference to the English scum ?

What one in the millions instance made you think that they will do research on our history with good intentions and present it us with out modifying the original ?

All those books are use less when dealing with our history. I had been digging it for more than three years. The modifications and misinformation are at highest level compared to other such feats.

Enough with it. I am talking about fall of bengal literature.

Vande Mataram is the sweetest song one can sing for his mother when he feels for her.

What is it with it?

Rasgulla is great.
 

jackprince

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Actually we have enough self respect.

I think some people are wondering what we are busy doing. We Bengalis are busy winning Nobel Prizes and composing the national anthems and songs for the nation.

The Jana Gana Mana was composed by Kobiguru R. Tagore and Vande Mataram was taken from Bankim Chandra`s Anandamath. Both were originally written in Bengali.

As for the topic of religion,one should never take it into consideration while judging an ethnicity. Btw we had the greatest reformer of Hinduism,Shri Chaitanya Mahapravu.

Sadly Chaitanyadev was murdered by a group of dim witted ,jealous and potbellied evil Oriya Puri Pandas.

Now for self respect and other such vague terms that had been thrown into this debate. Well if Oriyas had some self respect they should not be singing the national anthem and national song composed by Bengalis in the Bengal language.

Vande mataram

বন্দে মাতরম্৷
সুজলাং সুফলাং
মলয়জশীতলাম্
শস্যশ্যামলাং
মাতরম্!
বন্দে মাতরম্৷.

শুভ্র-জ্যোৎস্না
পুলকিত-যামিনীম্
ফুল্লকুসুমিত
দ্রুমদলশোভিনীম্,
সুহাসিনীং
সুমধুরভাষিণীম্
সুখদাং বরদাং
মাতরম্৷৷
বন্দে মাতরম্৷

Jana Gana Mana

জনগণমন-অধিনায়ক জয় হে ভারতভাগ্যবিধাতা!
পঞ্জাব সিন্ধু গুজরাট মরাঠা দ্রাবিড় উৎকল বঙ্গ
বিন্ধ্য হিমাচল যমুনা গঙ্গা উচ্ছলজলধিতরঙ্গ
তব শুভ নামে জাগে, তব শুভ আশিষ মাগে,
গাহে তব জয়গাথা।
জনগণমঙ্গলদায়ক জয় হে ভারতভাগ্যবিধাতা!
জয় হে, জয় হে, জয় হে, জয় জয় জয় জয় হে।।

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_Mataram
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana
Calm down. There's no call for going ballistic and giving in to provincialism. Don not let your pride for your own culture and language malign other's. He may bait you, but it will be fool of you to take the bait.

Odiya and Bengali both are equally rich in its own heritage. Bengali flourished mainly because of the waive of nationalism that swept through Bengal during independence struggle and also due to initial British patronage and later due to solid financial base because of having the capital of British India at Culcutta, generations of intellectuals have come out of the educational institutes of Calcutta.
 

jackprince

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Not that she alone is to blame. The problem is using armed gangs to run a state, instead of actual governance.
Same was during Leftist rule. Particularly in later days. Mamata just took the pages out of Commie book and and expanded on it, albeit exponentially.

At least the erstwhile CPI(M) government had showed considerable progress in agriculture,
Hardly. Its policies of distribution of lands when benefited the smaller farmers, it made them land-bound and the farmers with the little plots of land actually fell into dire situation supporting their families in generations to come. It also reduced productivity of the lands by restricting usage of machineries. When 40 years ago it was a non-issue, now it is a glaring issue.

and had effectively combated the Maoists. With the new CPI(M) government under Buddha, even industries were picking up, and then, so were the Maoists, who not only weakened the CPI(M), but were also beneficial towards Mamata's ascendancy.
That credit actually goes to Mamata. She back-stabbed Maoists and mostly eliminated them. before that it was CPI(ML) which was not much active in WB anyway.

With Mamata, neither is there anything to show in agriculture, nor is there anything to show in industries.
Very true.
 

pmaitra

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Now don't take me wrong.

Why the heck you are giving reference to the English scum ?

What one in the millions instance made you think that they will do research on our history with good intentions and present it us with out modifying the original ?

All those books are use less when dealing with our history. I had been digging it for more than three years. The modifications and misinformation are at highest level compared to other such feats.

Enough with it. I am talking about fall of bengal literature.

Vande Mataram is the sweetest song one can sing for his mother when he feels for her.

What is it with it?

Rasgulla is great.
English scum? Who?

There is no guarantee that ones intentions about history will be of a certain type. Everyone has his own biases. Now, what type of bias is "good" and what is "bad" is subjective. What you might think is bad intention, might be good intention to another person.

Fall in literature? Well. There are plenty of litterateurs in Bengal, very sophisticated, and very erudite, but essentially, they produce nothing tangible. Then, there are those millions of hard working peasants and pisciculturists whose hard work and dedication has made Bengal one of the largest producers of rice and fish. My point is, what is one going to do with literature and poetry, when there are more pressing things to do? One's priorities should not be misplaced.

It's like a lion, proud of his beautiful mane, and commanding growl, but in reality, a lion sits lazily and does practically nothing, while the lioness does all the hard work and hunts. :lol:
 

pmaitra

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Same was during Leftist rule. Particularly in later days. Mamata just took the pages out of Commie book and and expanded on it, albeit exponentially.
What do you mean by Leftist rule? WB still has leftist rule. Mamata is a die hard leftist, even more leftist than Buddha.

You are referring to the Left Front government. You are correct about Jyoti Basu's time. You are not correct about Buddha times. It was Buddha who started to put all these goons behind bars, which actually made CPI(M)'s support base weak, and made many goons switch sides to TMC.

Hardly. Its policies of distribution of lands when benefited the smaller farmers, it made them land-bound and the farmers with the little plots of land actually fell into dire situation supporting their families in generations to come. It also reduced productivity of the lands by restricting usage of machineries. When 40 years ago it was a non-issue, now it is a glaring issue.
In an ideal situation, we would have lot of land in large tracts, mechanization, and few people working on that farm. The problem is, that approach would not be able to employ a large population. The approach taken by the CPI(M) is the best given the situation. Yes, it is worse now, but then, the only solution is industrialization.

That credit actually goes to Mamata. She back-stabbed Maoists and mostly eliminated them. before that it was CPI(ML) which was not much active in WB anyway.
It was Mamata who actively supported the Maoists when they were fighting against the CPI(M). The Maoists helped Mamata by eliminating the CPI(M) leadership from the villages. Once Mamata came to power, she did backstab them, but she is still to be blamed for the Maoists rising in the first place, and not given credit.

Very true.
Thanks.
 

Ancient Indian

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English scum? Who?

There is no guarantee that ones intentions about history will be of a certain type. Everyone has his own biases. Now, what type of bias is "good" and what is "bad" is subjective. What you might think is bad intention, might be good intention to another person.

Fall in literature? Well. There are plenty of litterateurs in Bengal, very sophisticated, and very erudite, but essentially, they produce nothing tangible. Then, there are those millions of hard working peasants and pisciculturists whose hard work and dedication has made Bengal one of the largest producers of rice and fish. My point is, what is one going to do with literature and poetry, when there are more pressing things to do? One's priorities should not be misplaced.

It's like a lion, proud of his beautiful mane, and commanding growl, but in reality, a lion sits lazily and does practically nothing, while the lioness does all the hard work and hunts. :lol:
Are you saying that poor man can't express his feelings in much more floral way?

British did a number on you, sir.

They grabbed your land and starved you to death. I doubt they can make any sounds except hunger cries.

What do you suggest to restore its past glory, my poor estranged children of Mother Ganga?

As for your lion's lines,

pride only does silly hunting for the daily meal.

The male one had to defend territory and kill much more bigger animals.
 

pmaitra

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Are you saying that poor man can't express his feelings in much more floral way?

British did a number on you, sir.

They grabbed your land and starved you to death. I doubt they can make any sounds except hunger cries.

What do you suggest to restore its past glory, my poor estranged children of Mother Ganga?

As for your lion's lines,

pride only does silly hunting for the daily meal.

The male one had to defend territory and kill much more bigger animals.
Not saying that a poor man cannot express his feelings in a more floral way, but majority of rustic men can only express themselves in a rustic manner, while the usual floral utterances are emitted by those that do that and not much more. There is no substitute for hard work.

The problem is, while Bengali literature might benefit from these guitar playing, chappal wearing, khadi clad activists, Bengal benefits little. As one CPI(M) leader aptly remarked, "buddhijibi buddhiman, buddhi diye kore khan," which means that intellectuals are intelligent, and they survive by peddling their intellect.

There are two very different Bengals. One is that lives in Kolkata. The other one lives in the districts. The latter part is what people outside of Bengal not particularly acquainted with.

Yes, the British did whatever they were able to, with the collaboration of some locals, and they did take casualties as well in the process. They did manage to grab the whole of south Asia.

The lioness does the most important job of the pride, i.e. feeding the pride, while the lion, not much. Just like your floral language, the lion hangs out with its flowing mane, waiting for the lioness to hunt and bring its food. Not that it would stand a chance against an elephant, and to protect a pride from wolves, the lionesses are sufficient.
 
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Ancient Indian

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The lioness does the most important job of the pride, i.e. feeding the pride, while the lion, not much. Just like your floral language, the lion hangs out with its flowing mane, waiting for the lioness to hunt and bring its food. Not that it would stand a chance against an elephant, and to protect a pride from wolves, the lionesses are sufficient.
For your info, I read the book you had linked.

That guy sounds like British chummy.

It is unfair to compare me to lion. I have only kindness for those fallen souls.

May be you should use the lens I am using to see the thing from my point of view.

I want to know what the fcuk happened to my country?

The history had been distorted beyond readable both by locals and outsiders.

If I follow the local path, it reeks of superstitious stench.

If I follow outsider path, they are not even paths to begin with.

I am at dead end.
 

pmaitra

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For your info, I read the book you had linked.

That guy sounds like British chummy.

It is unfair to compare me to lion. I have only kindness for those fallen souls.

May be you should use the lens I am using to see the thing from my point of view.

I want to know what the fcuk happened to my country?

The history had been distorted beyond readable both by locals and outsiders.

If I follow the local path, it reeks of superstitious stench.

If I follow outsider path, they are not even paths to begin with.

I am at dead end.
I am not comparing you to a lion.

I am saying some people go for show off, but contribute little. Those that do not have much to show off, actually contribute a lot more.

Literature peddlers = lions (good to look at but pretty much useless)
Farmers and fishermen = lioness (not great to look at but the real providers)

We need to appreciate those that truly deserve the appreciation.

Ok, let me tell you another story, which I think I had read in the Panchatantra or somewhere.

There was a deer who prided itself for its beautiful horns, but considered its legs ugly. One day, it was chased by a hunter. The deer ran. Finally, its horns got stuck in some bushes. The hunter shot it with an arrow. The dying deer thought, that its legs that it so hated actually tried to save it, but its horns that it took pride in was the cause of its demise.

Do you get my point now?
 

Ancient Indian

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I am not comparing you to a lion.

I am saying some people go for show off, but contribute little. Those that do not have much to show off, actually contribute a lot more.

Literature peddlers = lions (good to look at but pretty much useless)
Farmers and fishermen = lioness (not great to look at but the real providers)

We need to appreciate those that truly deserve the appreciation.

Ok, let me tell you another story, which I think I had read in the Panchatantra or somewhere.

There was a deer who prided itself for its beautiful horns, but considered its legs ugly. One day, it was chased by a hunter. The deer ran. Finally, its horns got stuck in some bushes. The hunter shot it with an arrow. The dying deer thought, that its legs that it so hated actually tried to save it, but its horns that it took pride in was the cause of its demise.

Do you get my point now?
I am getting what you are trying to say.

You say that poetry only comes from Literature peddlers.

Do you really think Vande Mataram dude is like that ?

Poetry comes from heart and true appreciation but not by learning dictionary or mastering essay writing.

Original works are created by those who work hard and enjoy it.

Remaining crap is just intellectual plagiarism done by the so called writers.

May be you are not exposed to good works.
 

pmaitra

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I am getting what you are trying to say.

You say that poetry only comes from Literature peddlers.

Do you really think Vande Mataram dude is like that ?

Poetry comes from heart and true appreciation but not by learning dictionary or mastering essay writing.

Original works are created by those who work hard and enjoy it.

Remaining crap is just intellectual plagiarism done by the so called writers.

May be you are not exposed to good works.
Some literature is certainly of high quality. I was referring to the current generation of intelligentsia, and whatever they produce which is dubbed literature.
 

Ancient Indian

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Some literature is certainly of high quality. I was referring to the current generation of intelligentsia, and whatever they produce which is dubbed literature.
I am also screaming that at top of my lungs for last few posts.

Such high quality writers to now copycats, What the heck is going on there?

Why the heck we don't have a progressive discussion?

Every discussion goes spiral and spiral and comes back to the same old point.


On other note
Don't you sleep sir, it is mid day here.
 

pmaitra

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I am also screaming that at top of my lungs for last few posts.

Such high quality writers to now copycats, What the heck is going on there?

Why the heck we don't have a progressive discussion?

Every discussion goes spiral and spiral and comes back to the same old point.


On other note
Don't you sleep sir, it is mid day here.
About to doze off. 5 to 6 hours a day is good for me.
 

Peter

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About to doze off. 5 to 6 hours a day is good for me.
This reminds me of Napoleon. The night before an important battle he would would only sleep for five minutes on top of his horse.
 

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