Ramayana: Ancient Indian Epic

Who was better?

  • Rama (and his cohorts)

    Votes: 18 81.8%
  • Ravana (and his cohorts)

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • I cannot pick a side.

    Votes: 2 9.1%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

pmaitra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

Did I really dodge the question? :eyebrows:
Go and read the thread again, I had replied to it :dude:
Please define 'vivaha' here, so that I can respond to your question that you asked here.
 

pmaitra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

Like kidnapping a married woman? :heh:
Ok, I copied your definition here:

Vivaha comes from dhatu – 'Vah' which means to conduct, lead, carry. Vi + Vaha is 'conduct/lead/carry away'. In our cultural context it means that the bride makes a journey to groom's house or that he groom comes to take the bride away. The same 'Vah' is used in 'Prahava' to indicate a strong stream flowing from one place to the other.
I have underlined the part of your definition that is correct. The rest of it is something you simply made up. ;)

So, what exactly did Ravana do?
 

pmaitra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

The question is still valid, you consider a person who abducts and keeps a woman against her will a gentleman? And I fail to see how you rate Ravana's character to be higher than that of Hanuman.
Being a gentleman is subjective, so your question is null and void.

Let me rephrase.

A person who carries away a married woman but keeps her in complete comfort and never touches her is more gentlemanly than a man who hides in the bushes and murders somebody who is already involved in a fight.
 

Dovah

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

A person who carries away a married woman but keeps her in complete comfort and never touches her is more gentlemanly than a man who hides in the bushes and murders somebody who is already involved in a fight.
Which of them was Hanuman?
 

Daredevil

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

He hadn't touched her.
How did he kidnap without touching her? :laugh: :lol:

Even if some one kidnaps wihtout touching that doesn't mean its not a kidnap. And kidnapping is definitely not a gentlemanly thing. :rolleyes:
 

pmaitra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

How did he kidnap without touching her? :laugh: :lol:

Even if some one kidnaps wihtout touching that doesn't mean its not a kidnap. And kidnapping is definitely not a gentlemanly thing. :rolleyes:
Read post #31.
 

Cliff@sea

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

The question is still valid, you consider a person who abducts and keeps a woman against her will a gentleman? . . . .
When done in response to having had his sister disfigured . . .in first place yeah quite . . .

Most people tend to conveniently overlook that it was Ram/Laxman who were the aggressor , when they sliced off Surpanakha's Nose

what kind of avatars were they... to have done that to a harmless girl . . who was simply enamored by them . .

Infact I find it quite gentlemanly that Ravan didn't rape in retaliation . . .
 
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pmaitra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

When done in response to having had his sister disfigured . . .in first place yeah quite . . .

Most people tend to conveniently overlook that it was Ram/Laxman who were the aggressor , when they sliced off Surpanakha's Nose

Infact I find it quite gentlemanly that he didn't rape in retaliation . . .
Good point, and I should have mentioned that.

You are an excellent debater.
 

Dovah

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

Infact I find it quite gentlemanly that he didn't rape in retaliation
I find it disturbing that someone would say that. :shocked:
 

Daredevil

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

Being a gentleman is subjective, so your question is null and void.

Let me rephrase.

A person who carries away a married woman but keeps her in complete comfort and never touches her is more gentlemanly than a man who hides in the bushes and murders somebody who is already involved in a fight.
Why is it subjective?. Because you were called out for calling a kidnapper a gentleman?.

If Ravana was Gentleman, he wouldn't have to Kidnap Sita and instead would have fought with Rama straightforwardly. There was no need for him to hide behind a Sari.
 

Cliff@sea

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

I find it disturbing that someone would say that. :shocked:
and i find it disturbing that your empathy is so selective
 

Bangalorean

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

The real question is whether Ravana "kidnapped" Sita to satisfy his carnal desires, or out of a sense of "revenge". First decide that.
 

Virendra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

Ok, I copied your definition here:
I have underlined the part of your definition that is correct. The rest of it is something you simply made up. ;)
So, what exactly did Ravana do?
Its not made up. It is called giving cultural context to a bare word without which you can never understand the correct meaning intended to be conveyed.
Of course I can understand if you need to be selective and literal in reading a word and reaching convenient conclusions.
Ravana forcefully abducted Sita. Period. There was no Marriage later on, if you're referring to the Rakshasa vivaha. There are 9 kinds actually.
So you see context is important. That is where most of the deliberate or unintentional mis-interpretation rises from.
The root in Vivaha is 'vaha' - conduct/lead/carry. Not abduction/forceful act.
The person goes from one domain/life to another.
Which is why I also mentioned 'Pravaha' so it would be clearer to understand.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Daredevil

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

The real question is whether Ravana "kidnapped" Sita to satisfy his carnal desires, or out of a sense of "revenge". First decide that.
Either way, does it make him gentlemanly for kidnapping an unarmed, alone and married woman?.
 

pmaitra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

Why is it subjective?. Because you were called out for calling a kidnapper a gentleman?.

If Ravana was Gentleman, he wouldn't have to Kidnap Sita and instead would have fought with Rama straightforwardly. There was no need for him to hide behind a Sari.
No, I wasn't called out, but you are simply incapable of understanding a sentence in the superlative.

You have two criminals, and one is a murderer and the other a kidnapper, and I say the kidnapper is more gentlemanly than the murderer. Now if you interpret that as an absolute, 'the kidnapper was a gentleman,' then either you are unable to comprehend, or are deliberately misrepresenting it.
 

Dovah

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

and i find it disturbing that your empathy is so selective
You're the one who finds rape to be a justified method of revenge, as someone already said, if Ravan wanted revenge he should have fought Ram not kidnap his wife.
 

pmaitra

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

You're the one who finds rape to be a justified method of revenge, as someone already said, if Ravan wanted revenge he should have fought Ram not kidnap his wife.
What are you talking about? When did Ravana rape Sita? What nonsense!
 

Cliff@sea

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

The Thread is completely derailed . . .Though i think this is a Good debate and deserves a thread of its own . . .

According to me the version of Ramayana/Ramcharitmanas we have been taking for granted as authentic . . .Is nothing but one Author's narrative . . .there are many other narrative's which dont present Ram as an epitome of goodness or Sita as an epitome of chastity . . .and there's no reason why this narrative has more merit then them
 

KS

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Re: Indian cricket fans harrassed in Sri Lanka

Which of them was Hanuman?
I think he is talking about Hanuman ji after looking at MF Hussain's painting..:laugh:
 

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