Railway Budget 2012

[Ray]

I have of late travelled extensively by rail.

The only good experience of cleanliness and palatable food was on the Duronto. Every time one went to the toilet, it was clean and dry since there was an onboard safaiwalla. It was not only for the AC I toilets, but I also saw them cleaning the AC II toilets.

The worst experience has been on the Chambal Express and the Shipra, where the toilets were filthy right from the starting station, cleaned at Allahabad (half way home) and there was no pantry car and no food available along the Naini - MP stretch!

Mukul Roy is MB loyalist and is said to be a goon!

 

[Ray]

By now, the degree of Banerjee's distrust had grown so intense that she would not be impressed even by his espousal of Trinamool's positions in the Cabinet and the Cabinet Committee on Political Affairs. On certain issues, like on allowing FDI in multi-brand retail, Trivedi even had to bear the brunt of finance minister Pranab Mukherjee's famous temper.

Rail Budget: Coup-hit Trinamool Congress on black-sheep watch

Trivedi's decision to hike fares was a conscious one. He did not try to skirt his responsibility as a railway minister by toeing his party's overtly populist line though it is quite apparent that Union finance minister Pranab Mukherjee would not have given the railways an extra Rs 3,500 crore loan at a nominal interest of 8.5% without a word with the minister. According to Trinamool sources, Mamata had instructed Trivedi at a meeting with her party MPs at Writers' not to hike railway fares. Trivedi's response was an enigmatic smile.

Unlike previous cases of rebellion in the party, the railway minister's defiance was not a solo effort, say sources. He had the backing of a group of leaders within the party, who might not show up in the controversy.

Parliamentary party leader Sudip Bandyopadhyay has already said that the party is in the lookout for black sheep who might have provoked Trivedi. Such a statement from a senior leader will only aggravate the atmosphere of mistrust within the party. On earlier occasions, senior party leaders like Ajit Panja and Pankaj Banerjee had to bite the dust for opposing Mamata on their own. Trinamool MP Kabir Suman, too, met a similar fate.

According to available indications, disgruntled Trinamool leaders like Somen Mitra, Sisir Adhikary, Sultan Ahmed, Saugata Roy, Gobinda Naskar and others who do not curry favour with the Trinamool chief may be under party scanner. None of these leaders is in any position to take the rebellion forward, as except for Sisir Adhikary, they can't risk facing elections without Mamata's support. They will test the waters in the panchayat elections and wait for developments in the national scenario to unfold before emerging out of the closet.

On Wednesday, Union minister Saugata Roy went with Sudip Bandyopadhyay and Subrata Bakshi to urge the railway minister to roll back his fare-hike proposal. Union minister of state Sisir Adhikary was with Mamata Banerjee in Nandigram from where the Trinamool chief announced her opposition to the hike.
Within minutes of Mamata's comment, Union minister of state Sultan Ahmed, who had earlier lauded Trivedi's budget, did a U-turn and asked Trivedi to fall in line. "I didn't know that Trivedi had raised the fare without any consultation within the party, so I am retracting my earlier statement. I am with the party," he said over phone.

However, the spark of rebellion within the Trinamool camp is likely to influence the Congress-Trinamool chemistry in Bengal and in the UPA. Mamata won't take the embarrassment easily and will wait for an opportunity to settle scores with the Congress. Even if she gets rid of Dinesh Trivedi, it is not certain how far Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will bow under the Trinamool pressure for a new railway minister. Mamata has already embarrassed the UPA government by moving an amendment to the President's address in Parliament. Her party may also throw tantrums during the discussion on the railway budget and submit cut motions like the Opposition. But this time, the government won't fall, as the Prime Minister has said.

Whatever the fate, the opposition to the rail budget by Trinamool Congress will pave the way for a high-voltage action-packed drama in Bengal with Mamata taking on the Congress and CPM simultaneously. The last time she had taken on both -- in the 2006 Assembly polls -- she had failed to reach the magic number. Now, she will find it difficult to simultaneously play out the role of a street fighter and discharge her duties as the chief minister. But, the Trinamool chief is desperate to display her anti-establishment card to make fresh dents in the coming panchayat elections. The educated middle-class though is not taking her knee-jerk reactions lightly.

More at:
Rail Budget: Coup-hit Trinamool Congress on black-sheep watch - The Times of India

 

[pmaitra]

I am not getting what is this man and this 'Kadoookar officer' is saying... Is he telling abt building bullet train coaches here..?..

Are making fun of Mr. Kakodkar by calling him 'Kadoookar officer' officer or was that a typo? It's quite obvious from your post that you are not particularly fond of this person.

Also, it is the 'Karkodkar Committee,' (actually Kakodkar) i.e. a group of persons, not just a one man army. We have multiple expert brains at work.

And abt the report of officer,

..Is he dumb or fool..?... Bullet trains cant travel beyond 56 km/hr and even in avg 80-90 km/hr speed it is danger.. The post is already telling, Bullet trains are specially designed to run at a maximum speed of 250 -300 kmph in foreign countries. ?

Is it the TOI's usual error or .....?

He is neither dumb, nor a fool.

Read the paragraph again:

Though passengers are seeing the announcement as a big gamble, security experts warn that unless a proper infrastructure is in place, India cannot afford to have such trains. "The Karkodkar Committee that was appointed by Trivedi had pointed out that the railways needs to do away with coaches which are being produced indigenously. According to the report, these trains cannot travel beyond 56 km/hr and even average speed of 80-90 km/hr is a danger,'' said the officer.

Just like LB pointed out, he is talking about indigenously produced coaches. By indigenously produced coaches, he is referring to the typical coaches made by RCF, Kapurthala, Punjab, and ICF, Perambur, TN, and not the LHB coaches that are built with foreign technology.

ICF coach:

RCF coach:

These coaches are obviously old fashioned and that '56 km/hr' is probably a ToI introduced typo and I believe these coaches have an upper speed limit of 156 km/hr and are thus restricted to (156 km/hr - 20 km/hr =) 136 km/hr as per IR regulations, and it is very much possible running these coaches at '80-90 km/hr is a danger.'

LHB and LHB clone coaches:

These coaches are made with foreign inputs, and some are outright procured from Linke Holfmann Bush aka LHB.

Bogies:
Domestically made (left) and foreign made or cloned (right):

Bio-Toilet:
Here is an example of the proposed bio-toilet already installed on the Bundlekhand Express (I think DRDO needs to stay out of this):

 

[anoop_mig25]

7 things to like about Rail Budget

by FP Staff Mar 14, 2012

#Dinesh Trivedi #Railway Budget #Railways Minister

6. Waitlisted? Get booked on an alternate train: The Railway Minister announced the introduction of an Alternate Train Accommodation System (ATAS) as a pilot project in order to accommodate wait-listed passenger on alternate trains instead of leaving them stranded.

how they are going to accomplish this do they have resources for it i mean wagons,locomotives,human resource ??

 

[pmaitra]

how they are going to accomplish this do they have resources for it i mean wagons,locomotives,human resource ??

They cannot accomplish this, unless they raise the fares and generate revenue. This subsidy-raj needs to be curtailed, if not stopped altogether.

 

[nitesh]

I dunno, why people are baying for blood of DRDO in this bio toilet thingy. This DRDO life sciences laboratory developed for soldiers posted in Siachin to make the disposing of human waste easy, this technology is found useful by Railways and now licensed and will be used to generate revenue. Why this unnecessary screaming?

 

[anoop_mig25]

why bjp is behaving as a stupid party they have not learnt their lessons from 2009 and if continued to behave like this i am sure they would loose 2014 as well . instead of supporting dinesh trivedi and railway budget they are opposing it and what mess congress had to itself instead of taking bull by horn they had given up.all is this because MMS is not in command . last time mms was in command in 2009 while taking decision regarding nuclear deal and they reap benefits in 2009 . and now they are in mess because no one is in command

AND is it DRDO or RDSO ( Research Design and Standards Organization) ??

if IR continues like this in 5 years it will be same as PR

 

[pmaitra]

I dunno, why people are baying for blood of DRDO in this bio toilet thingy. This DRDO life sciences laboratory developed for soldiers posted in Siachin to make the disposing of human waste easy, this technology is found useful by Railways and now licensed and will be used to generate revenue. Why this unnecessary screaming?

It's me sir. None else said anything against DRDO.

I think DRDO has a dedicated task - to develop weapons, and not toilets. I don't mind them working on toilets, but they should rather be focussing on what they are supposed to do. So what if DRDO made toilets that are being used in Siachen? There are plenty of other companies in India, much less hyped, who can make bio-degradable toilets. It isn't exaclty rocket science. Making missiles is rocket science and DRDO should focus on that.

Link: Low Flow Toilets | Green bathrooms | Composting Toilet Systems

 

[pmaitra]

AND is it DRDO or RDSO ( Research Design and Standards Organization) ??

It is DRDO, indeed, as per this:

Rail Budget 2012-13: Green toilets to be installed in 2,500 coaches - The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: Corrosion from night soil being discharged from toilets on tracks costs Rs 350 crore annually; Dinesh Trivedi, Union Railway Minister said while presenting the Railway Budget in Lok Sabha. He said green toilets will be installed in 2,500 coaches in the next one year.

Trivedi said, "Standard of hygiene needs to be improved substantially; all out efforts will be made on this in the next six months."



He said the Railways was duty bound to provide high standard of services and the it would set up special housekeeping body for stations and trains.

Manufacturing of bio-toilets is part of the green initiatives being undertaken by the nation's largest transporter to improve the cleanliness in rail premises.

Estimated to cost about Rs one lakh per bio-toilet, these new age toilets will be manufactured at Kapurthala coach factory and fitted in long-route trains.

The anaerobic bacteria inside the toilets consume waste material and convert it into water and gas in the bio-toilet system. The water passing through chlorine tank is discharged as clean water and the gas generated evaporates into the atmosphere.

Railways had joined hands with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for development of bio-toilets.

 

[nitesh]

It's me sir. None else said anything against DRDO.

I think DRDO has a dedicated task - to develop weapons, and not toilets. I don't mind them working on toilets, but they should rather be focussing on what they are supposed to do. So what if DRDO made toilets that are being used in Siachen? There are plenty of other companies in India, much less hyped, who can make bio-degradable toilets. It isn't exaclty rocket science. Making missiles is rocket science and DRDO should focus on that.

Link: Low Flow Toilets | Green bathrooms | Composting Toilet Systems

Sir, I still don't understand your jibe, and your basic understanding is wrong, DRDO has separate laboratories, they design not only weapons but food items too (remember the ready to eat meals which has been licensed to several companies), in this case this particular thing has been found useful, so why we are getting ourselves so worked up and bashing DRDO.

 

[anoop_mig25]

It is DRDO, indeed, as per this:

if there is RDSO ( Research Design and Standards Organization) then why go for DRDO and why not patent this technology and give its license to private so that they can manufacture and market while drdo gets revenues/royalty from sales and is free to do what it is supposed to do

 

[pmaitra]

Sir, I still don't understand your jibe, and your basic understanding is wrong, DRDO has separate laboratories, they design not only weapons but food items too (remember the ready to eat meals which has been licensed to several companies), in this case this particular thing has been found useful, so why we are getting ourselves so worked up and bashing DRDO.

You are right, they also make food items and toilets.

My points are:

Firstly, there are already companies who make bio-degradable toilets and DRDO should be kept out of such relatively low-tech endeavours. Yes, they are low tech compared to making missiles.

Secondly, DRDO has no experience whatsoever making bio-degradable toilets for trains. Please see the link I posted - that company has more experience than DRDO and they are already testing that toilet.

Thirdly, you said that this particular thing has been found useful? More useful that the product whose picture I posted? I think not. DRDO will have to catch up to that level.

Sir, even long distance buses have such toilets here is the US. It is hardly something of DRDO's calibre. I have much higher expectation from DRDO, and take it as a constructive criticism, but criticism it will always be, from my side. It's not a jibe, it is a harsh and honest criticism.

-IMHO-

 

[pmaitra]

if there is RDSO ( Research Design and Standards Organization) then why go for DRDO and why not patent this technology and give its license to private so that they can manufacture and market while drdo gets revenues/royalty from sales and is free to do what it is supposed to do

What is there to patent? Bio-degradable toilets are a common sight all over the US and probably many other western countries. Many companies make such things. DRDO is simply degrading itself by getting into businesses that can be better handled by so many other companies.

 

[nitesh]

You are right, they also make food items and toilets.

My points are:

Firstly, there are already companies who make bio-degradable toilets and DRDO should be kept out of such relatively low-tech endeavours. Yes, they are low tech compared to making missiles.

Secondly, DRDO has no experience whatsoever making bio-degradable toilets for trains. Please see the link I posted - that company has more experience than DRDO and they are already testing that toilet.

Thirdly, you said that this particular thing has been found useful? More useful that the product whose picture I posted? I think not. DRDO will have to catch up to that level.

Sir, even long distance buses have such toilets here is the US. It is hardly something of DRDO's calibre. I have much higher expectation from DRDO, and take it as a constructive criticism, but criticism it will always be, from my side. It's not a jibe, it is a harsh and honest criticism.

-IMHO-

You have gone in to tangent again, as I mentioned this particular thing was developed for the soldiers posted in Siachin where human waste disposal was a problem, now no body was selling this sort of product there, so DRDO developed it for them, based on request, and as offshoot it is found useful for Railways, we have problem with this? To me it seems like we are trying to find ways to bash DRDO where it is completely unnecessary.

Why can't you think it as DRDO helps Railways to save 350 crore in track maintenance . Come on we can desist from this unnecessary bashing

 

[pmaitra]

You have gone in to tangent again, as I mentioned this particular thing was developed for the soldiers posted in Siachin where human waste disposal was a problem, now no body was selling this sort of product there, so DRDO developed it for them, based on request, and as offshoot it is found useful for Railways, we have problem with this? To me it seems like we are trying to find ways to bash DRDO where it is completely unnecessary.

Why can't you think it as DRDO helps Railways to save 350 crore in track maintenance . Come on we can desist from this unnecessary bashing

LOL, I beg to disagree.

You are talking about toilets in Siachen, I am talking about toilets in trains. This is not the Siachen thread remember? It is railways thread. Who is closer to the topic?

 

[nitesh]

LOL, I beg to disagree.

You are talking about toilets in Siachen, I am talking about toilets in trains. This is not the Siachen thread remember? It is railways thread. Who is closer to the topic?

Boss, you started cribbing about DRDO right , I just wanted to point out that it is not that DRDO developed a toilet for the trains like you were tryign to project and as a side show trying to bash on .

Now still I feel that you have problem with civilian use of a military product, am I right?

 

[nrj]

NEW DELHI: Senior Congress leader Pranab Mukherjee clarified in Lok Sabha that railway minister Dinesh Trivedi has not resigned.

He confirmed that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has received a communication from the Trinamool Congress chief Mamata Banerjee and her request is under active consideration of the PM.

Pranab Mukherjee denied that the PM has receieved any letter of resignation from the railway minister.

He said when the government takes any action on the issue, the House will be informed.

TMC leader Sudip Bandhopadhya said on the floor of the House that the party had not asked Dinesh Trivedi to resign.

He said, Trivedi issue is a matter to be settled between Trinamool chief Mamata Banerjee and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

According to TV reports, the government has convinved Mamata Banerjee to allow Dinesh Trivedi to continue till the passage of the Railway Budget.

The discussion on Railway Budget is expected to start in the afternoon.

Earlier, the row over status of Dinesh Trivedi rocked both the Houses, with Arun Jaitley calling it a theatre of the absurd.

Leading the charge in the Lok Sabha, Leader of Opposition Sushma Swaraj said the government should clarify the status of railway minister and the Railway Budget.

Earlier speaking to reporters outside Parliament on Thursday morning, Dinesh Trivedi said that he had come to Parliament as a minister to answer questions on the Railway Budget.

This even as the Trinamool Congress MPs have staged a sit-in outside Parliament demanding rollback of increase in rail fares and a special package for West Bengal.

UPA safe, Dinesh Trivedi not asked to resign: TMC - The Times of India

 

[pmaitra]

Boss, you started cribbing about DRDO right , I just wanted to point out that it is not that DRDO developed a toilet for the trains like you were tryign to project and as a side show trying to bash on .

Now still I feel that you have problem with civilian use of a military product, am I right?

No, I have a problem with DRDO dedicating manpower into something that is already in production, extensively in the west, and in limited numbers in India.

I have given a link of a company that is already making toilets for trains, and DRDO has not made anything like that ever. It will still take DRDO time to catch up with that company. It's simply stupid for DRDO to get into such things, not to mention lower their own standards.

Link: http://biotoilet.in/biorail.html

Call it DRDO bashing, I think it deserves it. I would support DRDO even if it fails to perfect the Kaveri Engine, but will bash DRDO even if it successfully makes a bio-degradable train toilet.

Misplaced priorities, methinks!

 

[nrj]

Rail Budget is directionless, anti-people: BJP

BJP today termed the Railway Budget as "directionless" and "anti-people", saying it will add to the woes of the common man already facing the brunt of spiralling prices. "It is a directionless and anti-people budget," BJP's vice president Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi said, adding that without taking effective steps for ensuring security, facility and time, "announcements have been made for an expensive journey". He said at a time when the common man was already under attack from the burden of price rise and inflation, "the railway budget has given another bigger blow". Naqvi said

"While the Railway minister has announced a five-year plan for taking care of security, facility and time, the burden of increased fare has been slapped on the common man in five minutes". BJP general secretary Ananth Kumar said the Rail Budget was "anti-aam aadmi" and there was no vision in the budget. "There is no vision. There is no action and passenger has been raised prices will shoot up," he said. He added, "This budget is annexure minister's annexure budget."

Rail Budget is directionless, anti-people: BJP - PTI -

 

[nrj]

Railway budget a loot: Ram Naik

Mumbai: Former Union Minister and senior BJP leader Ram Naik on Wednesday termed the railway budget as a "loot".

Criticising the budget presented by Railway Minister Dinesh Trivedi, Naik said, "Though the Railway Minister has tried to tone down the increase in fares by saying it is just 2 paisa per km, the reality is harsh. The commuter in Mumbai will have to pay Rs 2.40 daily and Rs 48 monthly for commuting between Virar to Churchgate."

"This hike is too much," he added.

Drawing attention to the fact that speed of rakes on the Western Railway has increased from 80 to 100 km per hour due to AC to DC conversion, he said, "25 per cent increase in number of services was possible due to this conversion."

"On the national level also this budget gave nothing but the fare hike," Naik said.

Leader of Opposition in Maharashtra Legislative Council and BJP leader Vinod Tawade said that the Mumbaikars had got nothing from the railway budget.

"Konkan Railway passengers had some expectations which were belied," he said.

BJP's deputy leader in Lok Sabha, Gopinath Munde, said the UPA, which came to power in the name of 'Aam Aadmi', had inflicted burden on the common man.

"Few days back freight rates were hiked and now the passenger fares have been hiked. With this, the inflation will rise," Munde said.

Maharashtra state BJP president Sudhir Mungantiwar said the Railway budget "disappointed" the common man.

"No major demands of Vidarbha and Maharashtra have been accepted. No extra facility or new trains have been introduced," he said.

PTI

Railway budget a loot: Ram Naik