Rafale no match for China's MMRCA

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ice berg

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It looks like the Chinese too have caught the disease of DELUSION by being in the company
of Pakistanis

Good for us if you believe that your J 10 A is world class

Your ONLY good planes are The RUSSIAN built SU 27 and SU 30 MKK

Carry on dreaming you fools

Our Su 30 mki and Super sukhoi 30 ; PAK FA ; RAFALE ; Upgraded MIG 29 and Mirage 2000- 9
WILL KILL your PLAAF and your stupid friend PAF , BOTH
ROFL, it was that easy to bring you to the edge. If you cant handle a few questions, then

go home and play with your toys, kid. :laugh:
 

Folk hero

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guys you don't know how good is j10 let me explain last night i built paper j10 and i launched it using a powerful mechanism (my arm) on a paper house and guess what j10 did a great kamikaze attack, now tell me do you have any doubts about j10's ability. :scared1::rofl::pound:

it's a joke so.:laugh:
 

Defcon 1

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ROFL, it was that easy to bring you to the edge. If you cant handle a few questions, then

go home and play with your toys, kid. :laugh:
instead of this trolling, I think both Indians and chinese members should compare the technical specifications of J10 and Rafale.....can someone do that??
 

Armand2REP

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There isn't much point comparing the two, the Joke 10 is a Thunder Blunder on steroids.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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these british assholes are trying to get on our nerves.we must cancel the hawk trainer programme and the hovercraft deal.these spineless assholes are trying to dictate terms to us.it is not our duty to provide employment to these beggars.when the mmrca deal was announced it was always going to be one sole winner and so why did the eurofighter take part in the deal if they knew that they can loose the deal.nobody pointed gun to their head.iaf had a very good evaluation process and in the end chose the better and cheaper aircraft.also french are a more reliable partner than these american parasites called britain.they and russian were the only two countries to support us after the 1998 nuclear test.regarding aid it is a small amount that they pay to balance the huge amounts of wealth and ornaments they looted during the colonial times.if they want to withdraw that it is no problem to us but we should do a tit for tat and withdraw the huge indian investment made in their country.
 

Tshering22

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Indian FGFA, MKI and Rafale for the Chinese J 20, J 11 and J 10....

what will be the primary mission of Rafale? I mean India have MKI for ground attacks duties and probably FGFA would be used as the air dominance fighter....
the case is if Rafale is faced with J 11 or J 20 how will it turn out to be? Rafale was reportedly out flown the F 22..... but can it survive a mass attack by Chinese AF?
The IAF doctrine has always been to deal with hostile situations in which we are outnumbered. However, so far only Pakistanis have been foolish enough to keep pushing our own doctrine against us and failing miserably at it. PLAAF's capabilities are not known outside China except the last time it fought a very limited war in Korean War nearly 60 years ago.

There are three things that have to be kept in mind while dealing with an unknown enemy:

- First, everything that he shows is not always the case. There are always things that he'd hide from you and that's what you must search for.

- Second, there will never be a full en masse invasion by air. It would trigger an all out war; the last nail in any country's growth story.

- Third, defense production whether under license like MRCA or our own Tejas for that matter, would at least quadruple during conflict. Every nation does that and so do we.

J-11's capabilities are unknown outside China other than the fact that it is a modernized derivative of Russian Su-27, a superb fighter jet in its own right. Rafale belongs to a class ahead of that capability and obviously what we ask won't be similar to what the French air force has; it would have some tailor-made modifications too. It is our trade-mark to have so.

J-20 is a good decade away no matter how fast the Chinese rate of production be. We'd start having our own 5th generation fighters by then in the form of FGFAs, which would even out any class-differentiation odds that Rafales and Tejas may have to face.

The most important part of a PLAAF-IAF imaginary conflict:

The air war in Himalayas won't be like how it was fought over Pakistan. While the battles fought in western frontier, saw the full blown capabilities of each jets that faced against the other, jets in eastern front on either side won't be able to do much damage. Let's get down to the reasons why:

- Harsh Himalayan conditions; thin air, violent cold and high altitudes are a fighter's nightmare at take-off levels; forget battle airspace.

- Terrain difficulty; engaging anything in a dogfight or even a lock-on would be a serious pain in the @$$ with sharp ridges everywhere. Meaning missiles would be wasted and many airmen on either side would be more at risk colliding with the mountains than engaging each other.

- Full weapons payload impossible. This is especially so in PLAAF's case because they are at a higher ground. So if for example, J-10 can usually carry a full weapons load on all 10 hardpoints, it would only be able to carry 60% of that for a Himalayan air war. That's applicable to IAF as well.

- Most technology is TOTALLY USELESS in Himalayas. It has been tried, tested and failed.



In the end, it is going to be man against man that would decide the outcome of a conflict rather than plane vs plane in Eastern front. There's a whole damn reason why both PLAAF and IAF have not lined their borders with hundreds of jets. As much as the Himalayas form our border, they also prevent us from conducting any conventional air war.
 

Tshering22

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these british assholes are trying to get on our nerves.we must cancel the hawk trainer programme and the hovercraft deal.these spineless assholes are trying to dictate terms to us.it is not our duty to provide employment to these beggars.when the mmrca deal was announced it was always going to be one sole winner and so why did the eurofighter take part in the deal if they knew that they can loose the deal.nobody pointed gun to their head.iaf had a very good evaluation process and in the end chose the better and cheaper aircraft.also french are a more reliable partner than these american parasites called britain.they and russian were the only two countries to support us after the 1998 nuclear test.regarding aid it is a small amount that they pay to balance the huge amounts of wealth and ornaments they looted during the colonial times.if they want to withdraw that it is no problem to us but we should do a tit for tat and withdraw the huge indian investment made in their country.
Please don't generalize. These are all trade gimmicks. Though UK is disappointed, I am not surprised that the EFT project leader Germany has shown far more maturity and professionalism in taking the defeat.
 

nimo_cn

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To be fair, British are not having a good mood after losing the bidding. British economy, as well as French, isn't in a good shape as of now and in a near future. Both need some cash to bail themselves out, now France has got what both desperate need, you can't blame British for whining like hell.

Rafale is a good plane, no doubt, we can't question the legitimacy of the choice by IAF, they are professionals, we are just military fans, at most amaturs. I believe they can choose what is best for India.

But if people expect that IAF could regain the quality advantage it used to have over PLAAF (let us face it, India did own better aircrafts than PLAAF, especially in 1990s) by just importing 126 Rafales, you are miscalculating.

I can't say there is any plane in PLAAF equivalent to or better than Rafale as of now, because public information doesn't say so. But that doesn't mean Rafale will give IAF much advantage as people are suggesting.

I see people are comparing J10A with Rafale, to be honest, I don't think J10A is a match for Rafale, maybe I should remind you that J10A was inducted as early as 2004. However China is having J10B, an improved version of J10, which I believe will be rivalling Rafale or even better than it.

I know what you are gonna argue, J10B is still under research while Rafale is inducted by France. Indeed, that will be unfair if we are comparing French airforce with PLAAF. But the topic here is about IAF and PLAAF. So when the deal will proceed and when IAF will get its Rafale are extremely important issues in this discussion.

Is there anyone who could tell me the specific timeline of the Rafale induction? If IAF sticks to the rate of it handling the MMRCA bidding, I won't be suprised that IAF doesn't procure all of 126 Rafales until 2020. Even that depends on the integrity of French, people should pray that they don't attempt to rip Indians off like Russians did by hiking the prices before the deal is finished.

By 2020, what birds PLAAF are gonna fly? Who(Hu) knows!
 
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Armand2REP

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Like J-10B is going to be much better than J-10. The major emphasis of the programme is to make a fully indigenous fighter. It currently runs on Al-31FN engines and a Zhuk radar. The major difference is replacing it with domestic WS-10 and radar. It isn't going to be much better than what already flies, it will be homegrown. Much less talk about competing with Rafale NG.
 

blueblood

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The IAF doctrine has always been to deal with hostile situations in which we are outnumbered. However, so far only Pakistanis have been foolish enough to keep pushing our own doctrine against us and failing miserably at it. PLAAF's capabilities are not known outside China except the last time it fought a very limited war in Korean War nearly 60 years ago.

There are three things that have to be kept in mind while dealing with an unknown enemy:

- First, everything that he shows is not always the case. There are always things that he'd hide from you and that's what you must search for.

- Second, there will never be a full en masse invasion by air. It would trigger an all out war; the last nail in any country's growth story.

- Third, defense production whether under license like MRCA or our own Tejas for that matter, would at least quadruple during conflict. Every nation does that and so do we.

J-11's capabilities are unknown outside China other than the fact that it is a modernized derivative of Russian Su-27, a superb fighter jet in its own right. Rafale belongs to a class ahead of that capability and obviously what we ask won't be similar to what the French air force has; it would have some tailor-made modifications too. It is our trade-mark to have so.

J-20 is a good decade away no matter how fast the Chinese rate of production be. We'd start having our own 5th generation fighters by then in the form of FGFAs, which would even out any class-differentiation odds that Rafales and Tejas may have to face.

IAF will be outnumbered on western front but most likely be on par on the eastern front as PLAAF still does not have many airbases activated. Last time, PLA ( not PLAAF) fought Vietnam and their performance was abysmal. Their is no evidence whatsoever, that they have adopted modern tactics. Lack of information about PLAAF training and participation in international training exercises is another factor.

NOTE: As mentioned by AFM in their article about J-10, during 80s only 3 pilots in the entire PLAAF were deemed qualified for flying a 4th gen ac (IAI Lavi). Things are definitely improved but how much?

21st century wars are not likely to last long enough to produce complex systems like fighters during the period.

The most important part of a PLAAF-IAF imaginary conflict:

The air war in Himalayas won't be like how it was fought over Pakistan. While the battles fought in western frontier, saw the full blown capabilities of each jets that faced against the other, jets in eastern front on either side won't be able to do much damage. Let's get down to the reasons why:

- Harsh Himalayan conditions; thin air, violent cold and high altitudes are a fighter's nightmare at take-off levels; forget battle airspace.

- Terrain difficulty; engaging anything in a dogfight or even a lock-on would be a serious pain in the @$$ with sharp ridges everywhere. Meaning missiles would be wasted and many airmen on either side would be more at risk colliding with the mountains than engaging each other.

- Full weapons payload impossible. This is especially so in PLAAF's case because they are at a higher ground. So if for example, J-10 can usually carry a full weapons load on all 10 hardpoints, it would only be able to carry 60% of that for a Himalayan air war. That's applicable to IAF as well.

- Most technology is TOTALLY USELESS in Himalayas. It has been tried, tested and failed.

In the end, it is going to be man against man that would decide the outcome of a conflict rather than plane vs plane in Eastern front. There's a whole damn reason why both PLAAF and IAF have not lined their borders with hundreds of jets. As much as the Himalayas form our border, they also prevent us from conducting any conventional air war.
Only PLAAF that will be facing the high altitude take off problems with their airbases in Tibet. Majority of the airbases of EAC and WAC of IAF not high altitude bases. But post take off problems will be shared by both sides.
 

J20!

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Like J-10B is going to be much better than J-10. The major emphasis of the programme is to make a fully indigenous fighter. It currently runs on Al-31FN engines and a Zhuk radar. The major difference is replacing it with domestic WS-10 and radar. It isn't going to be much better than what already flies, it will be homegrown. Much less talk about competing with Rafale NG.
How is the J10B not going to better than the J10A? Higher degree of composite usage, ie, less weight. The new DSI intake ie, reduced weight and lower frontal RCS. Application of RAM as has been done on the J11B, ie, lower RCS. The new IRST, the J10A didnt have an IRST. The new AESA/PESA. The new self defence suite distributed throughout the airframe. And not forgeting the use of the higher thrust WS10A which means a better thrust to weight ratio, meaning the ability to carry larger loads (currently has a useful load of almost 5000kg

And its not like the current J10A isn't capable anyway. It achieved a 13:1 kill ratio against J11A's, and PLAN-AF J10's achieved multiple radar locks on Vietnamese flankers in SCS skirmishes. And dont lie, you know very well that the J10A doesn't use a Zhuk radar. It uses the KLJ 10 pulse doppler, which if you care to check is fully Chinese. Your argument that the difference between the A and B being indigenization is false, seeing as the only Russian product on the J10A is the AL31 turbofan. I know denial and belittling is your signature move, but its getting kinda old.
 
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Armand2REP

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How is the J10B not going to better than the J10A? Higher degree of composite usage, ie, less weight. The new DSI intake ie, reduced weight and lower frontal RCS. Application of RAM as has been done on the J11B, ie, lower RCS. The new IRST, the J10A didnt have an IRST. The new AESA/PESA. The new self defence suite distributed throughout the airframe. And not forgeting the use of the higher thrust WS10A which means a better thrust to weight ratio, meaning the ability to carry larger loads (currently has a useful load of almost 5000kg
There is no RAM on J-11B, wouldn't make a difference on a 25m^2 RCS. There is no proof China can even make RAM.

Advanced aviation material industry is practically non-existent in China so whatever is imported can't be massed produced. The composite usage won't change much.

Different intakes will have a minimal affect on RCS, degrades engine performance in the trade-off.

WS-10A produces less thrust than the AL-31FN as well as leaking oil and cracking blades.

There is no AESA, PESA trying to match the performance of a Zhuk. Probably worse given China's limited radar experience.

IRST should have been put on the A model. It has taken that long to clone the obsolete Flanker OLS-27.


And its not like the current J10A isn't capable anyway. It achieved a 13:1 kill ratio against J11A's, and PLAN-AF J10's achieved multiple radar locks on Vietnamese flankers in SCS skirmishes. And dont lie, you know very well that the J10A doesn't use a Zhuk radar. It uses the KLJ 10 pulse doppler, which if you care to check is fully Chinese. Your argument that the difference between the A and B being indigenization is false, seeing as the only Russian product on the J10A is the AL31 turbofan. I know denial and belittling is your signature move, but its getting kinda old.
J-10A is on par with an early block 5 F-16. J-10B would move it up to block 20 .

J-10A flies with a Russian radar.

J-10 has Russian radar?
 

nimo_cn

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Russian radar? All you can provide is a link of another defence forum?

By the way, it is against the rule to post that link.
 

Armand2REP

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Russian radar? All you can provide is a link of another defence forum?

By the way, it is against the rule to post that link.
How can it be against the rule to post from a DFI affiliate forum? The source is in Vladimir's post. If you can read Russian be my guest. He already translated it.
 

Tshering22

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To be fair, British are not having a good mood after losing the bidding. British economy, as well as French, isn't in a good shape as of now and in a near future. Both need some cash to bail themselves out, now France has got what both desperate need, you can't blame British for whining like hell.
I totally agree. But a mature capitalist economy and a former superpower to behave like this has taken us aback. It is not like we didn't have joint programs with them. BAE Hawks have been ordered and is being license produced in India from them and it is around 175 in numbers or more.

Rafale is a good plane, no doubt, we can't question the legitimacy of the choice by IAF, they are professionals, we are just military fans, at most amaturs. I believe they can choose what is best for India
.

IAF just has this one problem and that is, it is very impatient of indigenous weapons development.

But if people expect that IAF could regain the quality advantage it used to have over PLAAF (let us face it, India did own better aircrafts than PLAAF, especially in 1990s) by just importing 126 Rafales, you are miscalculating.
The total contract is for 200+ including options. As more jets get older, 200+ will naturally be confirmed. We earlier ordered 230 MKIs. But as we are phasing older jets out, including the latest order, we have around 300+ of them in our sight. Expect the same for Rafale.

Is there anyone who could tell me the specific timeline of the Rafale induction? If IAF sticks to the rate of it handling the MMRCA bidding, I won't be suprised that IAF doesn't procure all of 126 Rafales until 2020. Even that depends on the integrity of French, people should pray that they don't attempt to rip Indians off like Russians did by hiking the prices before the deal is finished.
This is one thing we are very apprehensive about. I will not deny it. Which is why we pray that at least 50% of the jets are produced in France so that we can start with the remaining 50% at home. That way, there will be multiple assembly lines and thus will churn out jets faster, leading to quicker inductions.

By 2020, what birds PLAAF are gonna fly? Who(Hu) knows!
Well J-20 and PAKFA/FGFA should be out by then.

Think about it; air war cannot play a big role in our border considering the Himalayas that would make any air force think a 100 times before taking the step. More pilots would be risking collision with the jagged terrain than shooting each others' jets down.
 

Tshering22

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IAF will be outnumbered on western front but most likely be on par on the eastern front as PLAAF still does not have many airbases activated.
First, how will we be outnumbered by PAF? In the coming decade, we are going to be 3 times their size. IAF plans fleet expansion alongside replacements mate.

Second, how do you know that PLAAF hasn't activated any air base as such? They don't really tell the news outside, or even to their own people for that matter, do they?

Last time, PLA ( not PLAAF) fought Vietnam and their performance was abysmal. Their is no evidence whatsoever, that they have adopted modern tactics. Lack of information about PLAAF training and participation in international training exercises is another factor.
Which is why it is always better to over-estimate a threat and prepare accordingly than underestimate it. If they are say, 6/10 in rating in reality which we don't know, we better prepare to be able to handle at least 9/10 in score. Only then we can have the luxury of sufficient strategic "room" in case of any unforeseen circumstances.

Don't make the mistake that mutt Nehru made 50 years ago.

NOTE: As mentioned by AFM in their article about J-10, during 80s only 3 pilots in the entire PLAAF were deemed qualified for flying a 4th gen ac (IAI Lavi). Things are definitely improved but how much?
This is 2012. In 80s, our economy was in dumps and we had reduced defense budget too remember? A lot has changed in last 30 years.

21st century wars are not likely to last long enough to produce complex systems like fighters during the period.
I even doubt an aerial conflict is possible between IAF and PLAAF, let alone a long one. The doubts persist because of this region's terrain. Come to Sikkim and see for yourself; especially north Sikkim that borders Tibet. The entire belt is as hostile as Siachen.

Only PLAAF that will be facing the high altitude take off problems with their airbases in Tibet. Majority of the airbases of EAC and WAC of IAF not high altitude bases. But post take off problems will be shared by both sides.
Exactly!
 

JAISWAL

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9 factors that may have helped Dassault sell its Rafale fighter this week | idrw.org
++
9 factors that may have helped Dassault sell its Rafale fighter this week

.
.
Many global arms industry observers were
surprised this week when the Indian Air
Force announced that it had chosen French
firm Dassault Aviation as its preferred bidder for a
roughly $11-billion deal to supply India with 126
jet fighters. After all, despite 12 years of heavy
sales bombardments all over the world that
sometimes even included the president, only
theFrench air force has ever actually bought the
Rafale.
The deal isn't done yet – the French have just
won the right to an exclusive negotiation – but it
is close enough that shares in Dassault shot up
by 20% the day of the announcement.
So how did Dassault finally pull it off? And not
just any deal, but what some say is the biggest
cross-border military aviation contract of all time?
Of course, the Indian government said it went to
the low bidder, but that seems unlikely –
particularly since the final price hasn't been set,
and no one picks up jet planes just because
they're on sale.
The Deal
French firm Dassault won $11 billion contract to
supply 126 Rafale jets.
Snapped it up with lower bid
against Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft.
The size of the contract could eventually go up to
200 aircraft.
The Aircraft
Rafale is a twin-engined, delta-wing jet Can fly up
to 2,130 km per hour in high altitude.
In service for the French Air Force since 2006.
Has been playing air support roles in Afghan war
Part of Nato campaign in Libya in 2011.
The Company
Dassault family is the majority owner. EADS, a
co-producer of competing Typhoon, owns 46%
of the equity.
The company has delivered 7,500 civil & military
aircraft to 75 countries.
Dassault came close to selling aircraft to Brazil and
Switzerland, but failed to secure a contract as yet.
UAE was reportedly in final negotiations to buy
60 Rafale in June 2010, but drama unfolded when
Eurofighter Typhoon was allowed to submit a
counter-offer.
French defence minister gave an ultimatum that
Rafale production would be halted if the jets could
be sold abroad.
And The Snag
The file containing the offset proposals of
contenders went missing in December 2010.
Later found on the roadside in south Delhi. The
episode threatened to derail the tendering process
itself.
Others in the race
Six contenders were subjected to extensive field
evaluation trials.
Four aircraft eliminated last year on technical
grounds were American Lockheed Martin's F-16
and Boeing's F/A-18, Russian United Aircraft
Corporation's MiG-35 and Swedish SAAB's Gripen
With billions on the table, and the national
security at stake, the French plane must have
edged out the multi-national Eurofighter for a
number of reasons. Nine possibilities:
A BETTER LUNCH
Of course, nobody makes an important decision
for the food, but the prospect of hanging out in
Bordeaux, home of the Dassault assembly line,
instead of Halbergmoos, Germany, couldn't have
hurt. On the one hand, you're in the heart of the
French wine country, in a rich and sunny part of
France. On the other, you're in cold, grey Bavaria,
facing a few years of sausages, sauerkraut, and
beer served in mugs the size of small aquariums.
 

JAISWAL

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Paris to the hilt | idrw.org
++
Paris to the hilt[/size]
.
.

SOURCE: TELEGRAPH INDIA
The French kiss is running deep for India's
defence establishment this season.Tuesday's
decision to select the Dassault Aviation-made
Rafale fighter jet over the Eurofighter Typhoon as
the aircraft that will power the Indian Air Force for
the next 40 years is easily the biggest prize that
France has won on any military order.
Some 800 French companies operate in India but
only a select few in the defence sector. Areva in
the nuclear power sector and Airbus (European
conglomerate) in civil aviation have expanded
their businesses, too.
But in the lucrative defence business, France is still
behind Russia and Israel as a supplier to India.
The award of the Rafale contract, possibly in
April, will expand its lead hugely over the US, the
UK and Western European countries. The Indian
military has been steadily diversifying its arsenal
this past decade even though nearly 70 per cent
of the hardware is of Russian/Soviet origin.
It would be sweeter still for France because India
has selected the Rafale after it was rejected by a
clutch of countries that were or are looking to
refurbish their air forces. Among them are
Switzerland, the UAE, Brazil and South Korea.
Also, even all of these countries put together
were not looking to buy as many as 126 — and
possibly another 63 more — of the aircraft.
France's year for India's defence began with the
announcement in the first week of January that
MBDA was being awarded a contract for 490
Mica infrared and radar-controlled air-to-air
missiles. The package will cost the defence
budget $1.2 billion (about Rs 6,600 crore).
The award of the weapons package follows the
order to upgrade the Indian Air Force's 51 Mirage
2000H fighter jets. France was given the contract
in July last after years of negotiations that almost
frustrated it. The Mica missiles from MBDA will
equip these refurbished fighter jets.
MBDA is also in the race to sell Asraam missiles to
arm the Indian Air Force's 100 Jaguar fighter-
bomber aircraft. MBDA heavy-duty weapons
used in Libya and Afghanistan, like bunker
busting and deep penetration ground attack
missiles, will arm the Rafale, too.
The Mirage modernisation order to French
companies Dassault and Thales will cost about
$2.4 billion (about Rs 11,000 crore). The total
upgrade order, with the weapons package, will
top Rs 17,500 crore.
French companies are preparing to race for an
order for a second line of submarines for the
Indian Navy that could be in the region of Rs
62,000 crore. France's DCNS got the contract in
2005 to build six Scorpene submarines. The
delivery of the submarines, being built in
Cherbourg in France and also at Mazagon Docks
in Mumbai is delayed because work languished
over pricing issues in 2008.
The first of the submarines is now expected only
in 2015. The contract was signed initially for $3
billion after a meeting between Prime Minister
Manmohan Singh and President Jacques Chirac in
September 2005. The price was revised to $4.5
billion after the contract was re-negotiated amid
allegations from German rival HDW of a scandal.
Cutting across the various defence contracts that
France is executing is French company Thales.
Thales is a partner for the Mirage upgrade, the
submarine development and will partner Dassault
for the Rafale. It supplies night-vision devices to
the Indian Army for its tanks.
French engine-maker Snecma powers the Mirage
2000 fighter aircraft and two Snecma M88
engines will go into each Rafale.
French company Safran has won a contract for
an unspecified amount from Hindustan
Aeronautics to supply Turbomeca Ardiden 1H
helicopters for the Dhruv-II advanced light
helicopter. Each helicopter has two engines and
the Dhruv is steadily becoming one of the main
rotorcraft for the army, the air force and the navy
as also for central police organisations. The
Turbomeca engines are made by Safran.
 

blueblood

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First, how will we be outnumbered by PAF? In the coming decade, we are going to be 3 times their size. IAF plans fleet expansion alongside replacements mate.

Second, how do you know that PLAAF hasn't activated any air base as such? They don't really tell the news outside, or even to their own people for that matter, do they?
First, PAF currently fields more than 400 fighters which is more than 50% of the strength of IAF despite the fact that they have 1/5th the airspace and only one border to care for. They will be replacing their current inventory with JF-17s and J-10s bar the F-16s. Plus their procurement speed is way faster than ours. You do the maths.

Second, so far PLAAF has 5 airbases in Tibet according to open sources, IAF has much more and closer to sea level. Thin air of Tibet will be pain in the ass for not only the fighters and their engines but also for the pilots and the ground crew.

Which is why it is always better to over-estimate a threat and prepare accordingly than underestimate it. If they are say, 6/10 in rating in reality which we don't know, we better prepare to be able to handle at least 9/10 in score. Only then we can have the luxury of sufficient strategic "room" in case of any unforeseen circumstances.

Don't make the mistake that mutt Nehru made 50 years ago.
Being careful is one thing and being paranoid is another. Nehru screwed up not because he underestimated the PLA's fighting abilities but the intentions of CCP. PLAAF, so far is running the race alone and claiming the gold medal. I'll believe when I'll see them flying against any good airforce with modern fighters not North Korean or Sudanese air force with Mig -19s.

This is 2012. In 80s, our economy was in dumps and we had reduced defense budget too remember? A lot has changed in last 30 years.
But one can hardly say that IAF pilots were so inferior that wouldn't know how to fly a 4th gen aircraft. The only so called "modern technology" they meet is the one they develop in house. Their latest dedicated air superiority fighter is a J-10 with 80s era Zhuk inspired radar and does not have an IRST. Their AAMs are copies of Russian, Western and Israeli missiles from the 80s, bar the PL-12.

You are right, things have changed since the 80s but apparently not much.


I even doubt an aerial conflict is possible between IAF and PLAAF, let alone a long one.
No comments.

The doubts persist because of this region's terrain. Come to Sikkim and see for yourself; especially north Sikkim that borders Tibet. The entire belt is as hostile as Siachen.
I know mate, hence an active air force. Their is a limit to our men on the ground can do.
 
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