Questioning Pakistan's claim on indigenous development of Jf-17/FC-1 with China

[AbRaj]

what type of details you need?

I mean photos with some details and related links if possible

 

[Dazzler]

I mean photos with some details and related links if possible

there are more but they are not available on the internet, for now, these will do?

http://www.pac.org.pk/avionic

 

[Dazzler]

a tour to Aircraft manufacturing factory, PAC Kamra...

 

[Indx TechStyle]

oh you cunning linguist, read the post again, pakistan is a joint partner in the project with 52% share. no where does it say they make 52% or the aircraft on our own or have shared that much technology into it. Do you understand the difference between the two?I bet my last coin you dont. mate, i reply through my cell phone and often busy so give me some breathing space.


Yes the jf-17 does use plenty of indigenous components exclusively made by pakistani defence companies but it comes nowhere near to the 52%. go back a few pages and check my post where is provided the list of those products.

On a serious note

Pakistan has never developed a fighter aircraft prior to jf-17, and we have been short on budget most of the time due to one reason or another. A joint project with china was the only way we could develop a sanction free decent fighter aircraft for use.

You guys miss a crucial part of the entire equation and come up with your arguments and comparison which is neither fair nor just. India could afford to build a billion dollar LCA, albeit with a lot of foreign help and problems that just dont hush away. Both countries have their share of strengths and weaknesses and both projects are well suited for their respective primary users.


Many parts are pakistani, including front fuselage, rudder, canopy, VHF/ UHF comm, data link, cockpit displays are now indigenous and made at KARF factory, weapons and mission management computer, light management system, global altitude and heading reference system, back up mission computer and tyres by general tyres among others.

Say honestly that you were trying to fool us but we aren't idiotic enough to get dumed.
You are talking about JF-17?, pakistan has not even made a monoplane in history.
And I already knew that you were joking. So, I was trying to become slightly sarcastic.
There was an old Chinese project of developing low cost fighter plane around 90s which was shelved when China got better options.
Later, on time of economic crisis, when pakistan needed a boost to it's Air Force to balance India's expanding conventional power, it demanded China to provide some affordable air power. So, it was offered to invest in that project which was renamed as JF -17 (Joint Fighter 17).

↑↑↑↑↑↑
This all was your story.
Now, case of India:
India just a decade after independence got a dream to influence in global issues so decided to become a big military power.
So, we invested in no. of projects like Nuclear, Space, Indigenization, Missiles, Fighter aircraft and naval development.
In some of those projects, we got extreme success, partial in some and failed miserably in some cases
(But we realized all of them again in 21st century and still trying for some. ).
In case of LCA where you're talking about delays, we have made several planes before LCA. But LCA project was to be some of most advanced planes at that time(yet not today). Remaining problems were provided by Sanctions on us.
But no problem, it won't be delayed further.
India uses a "ladder" type policy to develop it's weapons., where we take much time to get on first step but grow very fast after that.


We took years for our first helicopter, now watch at us.
Other countries laughed on our space program in formative years and now are dependent on us.
Our missile program was delayed and failed badly when started and now we are posing a threat to world security. We took years to make first carrier, nuclear submarine, destroyer etc..
Now, our construction speed is headache of our enemies.
Same for our Navy, Air Force, R&D and other things etc..
We have made a fighter after tackling large obstacles and now we know how to make a fighter. So, sit study and watch us doing that.

 

[AbRaj]

there are more but they are not available on the internet, for now, these will do?

http://www.pac.org.pk/avionic

[/QUOTE]

there are more but they are not available on the internet, for now, these will do?

http://www.pac.org.pk/avionic

Thanks for the link
I think these are parts manufactured in PAC
fuselage is still imported from CAC(?)
Any component developed by PAC?
BTW wth wrong with PAC, I mean
Takhti-7, have they such a free time

 

[salute]

there are more but they are not available on the internet, for now, these will do?

http://www.pac.org.pk/avionic

very reliable source,

there are more but not available on internet because either they do not exists or too fake to post it on internet,

so just take your words for grant,

a tour to Aircraft manufacturing factory, PAC Kamra...

another very truthful source,

dont post about paki media,
indians knows about its reliability.

 

[AbRaj]

very reliable source,

there are more but not available on internet because either they do not exists or too fake to post it on internet,

so just take your words for grant,


another very truthful source,

dont post about paki media,
indians knows about its reliability.

Its official website of PAC, so can be considered reliable just like LCA/SU30 mki info on HAL website

 

[Dazzler]

very reliable source,

there are more but not available on internet because either they do not exists or too fake to post it on internet,

so just take your words for grant,


another very truthful source,

dont post about paki media,
indians knows about its reliability.

so you know more than its manufacturer?? :O
it is not a news report, rather a brief documentary to the aircraft manufacturing factory. See the thing up close and personal. Guess you didnt even check it. why?

 

[salute]

del.......................................................................................................................

 

[Dazzler]

pakis were always gets excited while just posting these website links and web articles links which are bashing lca and prasing jf without never actually reading it.

these are official links, what do you want? A link to a fanboy site?

 

[salute]

Its official website of PAC, so can be considered reliable just like LCA/SU30 mki info on HAL website

pakis were always gets excited while just posting these website links and web articles links which are bashing lca and prasing jf without never actually reading it.

 

[Dazzler]

pakis were always gets excited while just posting these website links and web articles links which are bashing lca and prasing jf without never actually reading it.

i am inclined to believe you are a sheer troll. if you want to learn, ask questions, if not, go have fun on your LCA forum or troll elsewhere.

 

[salute]

so you know more than its manufacturer?? :O
it is not a news report, rather a brief documentary to the aircraft manufacturing factory. See the thing up close and personal. Guess you didnt even check it. why?

but you pakis talks like you know more than not only jf manufacturer but also lca manufacturer.

 

[punjab47]

i am inclined to believe you are a sheer troll. if you want to learn, ask questions, if not, go have fun on your LCA forum or troll elsewhere.

I saw mohammad bowing in front of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in vision/dream. If u want to learn how to stop being a kafir melech ask questions. If not, then Saudi, Han & Anglo men are waiting their turn, at least they pay well in PKR right?

 

[salute]

i am inclined to believe you are a sheer troll. if you want to learn, ask questions, if not, go have fun on your LCA forum or troll elsewhere.

okay lets ask questions,

but before that you pakis didnt answer the questions from the first post of this thread and then you asking for more questions,

you first answer the questions @warrior monk asked.

 

[Compersion]

Q. is engine for the paki aircraft from the russia delivered through PRC is it delivered directly to pakistan from Russia. If it is from PRC how is it delivered from Russia? Also if it is from PRC is it delivered through the POK and Gilgit-Baltistan ? Also PRC engine use is it the same for Paki and PRC. Does PRC use better engine. Is the Engine built and assembled in Pakistan.

Q. The same for the spares and engine parts.

Q. Does Paki never complain to and about PRC. is it all one way smooth relations. Sometimes things are not that funny.

 

[salute]

Q. is engine for the paki aircraft from the russia delivered through PRC is it delivered directly to pakistan from Russia. If it is from PRC how is it delivered from Russia? Also if it is from PRC is it delivered through the POK and Gilgit-Baltistan ? Also PRC engine use is it the same for Paki and PRC. Does PRC use better engine. Is the Engine built and assembled in Pakistan.

Q. The same for the spares and engine parts.

Q. Does Paki never complain to and about PRC. is it all one way smooth relations. Sometimes things are not that funny.

they calls us trolls when we reply,

but when someone asks about junk jf tech paki bitc*** runs away like jf,

@Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10 @asianobserve @BATTLE FIELD @bose @Bornubus @brational @Blackwater
@Chinmoy @DingDong @FRYCRY @guru-dutt @Hari Sud @hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @laughingbuddha @mhk99 @maomao @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @Rowdy @Razor @Rashna @rock127 @R.parida @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sunnyv @sgarg @sabari @sorcerer @sydsnyper @SREEKAR @TejasMK3 @The enlightened
@tejas warrior @tharun @thethinker @tsunami @Screambowl @Sylex21 @VIP
@AbRaj @HariPrasad-1 @gslv markIII @Indx TechStyle

 

[warrior monk]

okay lets ask questions,

but before that you pakis didnt answer the questions from the first post of this thread and then you asking for more questions,

you first answer the questions @warrior monk asked.

No use prodding them for any information any further for the questions have not been answered and probably never will be putting some pic about flight control systems proves not much especially these small number of LRUs can and are being procured from Chinese OEMs , as one my questions asked about their FBW systems which integrated the IFCS which need test facilities like engineer in loop simulator , non-real-time simulator , real- time simulator most important hardware-software integration facility (India has mini bird) and hardware in loop evaluation facility (India has iron bird facility ) which they do not have , so these small number of LRUs imported from China means little . It also says they make canopy how did they generate the canopy geometry for better supersonic drag that is why I asked them about Navier Stokes solver both for structured grid and unstructured grid for studying flow fields in high alpha nor they have parallel processing systems for grid generation in RANS solver with Spalart-Allmaras turbulence model nor they did any area rule studies or drag vs area rule studies they don't have facilities no need to rub their face .
It is like a country claiming to have indigeniously developed nuclear weapons without the proper control over front end or the back end cycle or like someone claimed that one of our beloved neighbor has a indigenous DARHT facility which is hilarious in itself . No need to discuss any further.



LCA's Hardware in loop evaluation facility

LCA's Hardware software integration facility

Without these facilities no one makes IFCS LRUs

 

[gslv markIII]

Pakistan has never developed a fighter aircraft prior to jf-17, and we have been short on budget most of the time due to one reason or another. A joint project with china was the only way we could develop a sanction free decent fighter aircraft for use.

*Any manned aircraft.Next replacement for the Super Mushak should be or it would leave a nation of 190 million people without aircraft design capabilities.

India could afford to build a billion dollar LCA, albeit with a lot of foreign help and problems that just dont hush away. Both countries have their share of strengths and weaknesses and both projects are well suited for their respective primary users.

That 'lot' seems like a lot of exaggeration.No one would deny the fact that we approached Dassault for design consultancy & that Lockheed Martin trained our CLAW team engineers in design of the FBW system.Anyway even the Chinese approach the Russians for consultancy,I see no point in debating that.

But the principal focus of LCA program has always been development of indigenous capability and there were even many overambitious & underfunded ventures to achieve that ( Kaveri engine).

I was just reading an account from an ex-ISRO engineer on how VSSC,an ISRO lab was drawn into developing indigenous replacements for LCA's elevon & rudder actuators presently being supplied by Moog,post-Pokhran.They have been qualified,but productionisation seems delayed.Anyway that's some technology no one would give you for free.

Anyway it seems that the problems are being s,despite all those by Media funded by an MMRCA competitor (guess who ?).Remember the much celebrated 'LCA landing gear snag' ?

Many parts are pakistani, including front fuselage, rudder, canopy, VHF/ UHF comm, data link, cockpit displays are now indigenous and made at KARF factory, weapons and mission management computer, light management system, global altitude and heading reference system, back up mission computer and tyres by general tyres among others.

When you say that the front fuselage, rudder, canopy,cockpit displays are made in Pakistan,aren't you implying co-production (& not indigenous development) ?

I know about those avionic components for JF 17 like GAHRS & Light Warning System developed in Pakistan,but what about Mechanical LRUs like hydraulic filters and all ? Any developments wrt that ?

 

[gslv markIII]

India has iron bird facility

There is a second one for RLV TD project at ISRO.