Putin gives green light to sale of S-400 missile system to China

Putin gives green light to sale of S-400 missile system to China
2014-03-29

Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, has given a green light to sell the country's newest S-400 air defense guided missile system to China, which Russian media claim will give Beijing an edge in the airspace of the Taiwan Strait and over islands in the East China Sea at the center of a dispute with Japan, reports the military news website of Huanqiu.com, the Chinese-language website of China's Global Times.

Beijing has been interested in acquiring the guided missile system since 2011. Two years ago, Russia talked with several countries interested in buying the system but was forced to suspend negotiations in order to ensure its supply to the Russian military, the general manager of a Russian national defense export company told Russian newspaper Kommersant in January this year. Export sales of the system may not begin until 2016.

Talk of a potential deal with China drew concerns from Russian security officials who worried that it may not only affect the supply of the system to Russia's own military but also that China could back-engineer the technology to produce its own systems. The system's manufacturer Almaz-Antei has eased the former concerns by delivering the first batch of the system. Moscow also announced a plan in January to build three new plants for the contractor in order to build more air defense and anti-guided missile systems. An intellectual property rights agreement that China and Russia signed with regard to the arms trade has also come into effect.

Though in what volume China wishes to acquire the S-400 system is unclear, Kommersant's source said China wants enough systems to equip two to four battalions. The People's Liberation Army has already obtained an air defense guided missile system and another command system from Russian and deployed them in the defense of Beijing and Shanghai, according to the paper, which estimated that the country would be able to control the airspace over Taiwan and the disputed Diaoyutai islands (Diaoyu to China, Senkaku to Japan).

Putin gives green light to sale of S-400 missile system to China｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

 

China's New Jet, Radar Complicate US Posture

Russian-made Gear Extends Beijing's Punch

Longer Reach: China plans to purchase the Russian-made Su-35 and equip it with an advanced radar. (Eric Piermont / AFP)

TAIPEI — China’s increasing military musculature continues to crush the margins of how far the US military can conduct operations near the mainland, experts say. Through the purchase of Russian-made equipment, China is attempting to break beyond the current air defense range of 250 kilometers in what US experts refer to as China’s anti-access/area-denial strategy.

China plans to procure two new Russian weapon systems that will extend the range of its air defense strike capability to 400 kilometers. This would place all of Taiwan within the scope of China’s air defense network and endanger the Japanese-controlled Senkaku Islands, which China also claims.

The first is the much-reported negotiation for the 400-kilometer range S-400 surface-to-air missile (SAM) system with a possible deal after 2017, when the Russian manufacturer, Almaz-Antey, fulfills Russian military orders.

The second is the Sukhoi Su-35S multirole fighter jet. These fighters will not be outfitted with the older Zhuk radar, but with the IRBIS-E radar, said Vasiliy Kashin, a researcher at the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies.

Built by Tikhomirov NIIP, the 400-kilometer range IRBIS-E multimode X-Band passive electronically scanned array radar can detect and track up to 30 airborne targets and attack up to eight at the same time, according to the company’s website. In addition, in the air-to-ground mode, it can track up to four ground targets, and can track one ground target while preserving air sector surveillance.

The S-400 and Su-35S with the IRBIS-E radar might become “a psychological deterrent to politicians in Washington when they contemplate a Taiwan contingency,” said Alexander Huang, a military specialist at Tamkang University, here.

Kashin said the tactical situation is “bad news for Taiwan,” as the Su-35S will be able to spot Taiwan’s F-16 fighters at 400 kilometers with its new radar. “That means Chinese Su-35s patrolling on the mainland side of the border will be able to see the targets all over Taiwan.”

If anything, these systems will “inspire determination to expedite production, procurement and deployment of the [Lockheed Martin] F-35 fighter by the US and its Asian allies,” Huang said.

The latest information on the Su-35S deal was revealed on June 10, when the director general of Russian Technologies Co., Sergey Chemezov, said the final commercial contract on the fighter sale could be expected by the end of this year.

Kashin said the “contract likely will be signed at the next meeting of the Sino-Russian intergovernmental commission on military technical cooperation, which can be expected to take place in November in Moscow.”

The first procurement contract is expected to include 24 Su-35S fighters, with an option for an additional 24 as things progress. Though 24 to 48 fighters are not a significant threat to US forces, they pose a problem for Taiwan as it retires 56 Mirage 2000 fighters and roughly 50 F-5s. Taiwan is upgrading 126 indigenous defense fighters and 145 F-16A/B fighters, but there has been a significant push by Taiwan to procure 66 F-16C/D fighters to counter reductions. Effective lobbying by China within the US government has blocked new F-16 sales to Taiwan. [​IMG]

With projected reductions in fighters, Taiwan’s military has begun fielding its first land-attack cruise missile, the Hsiung Feng 2E, and is working on a variety of new anti-ship cruise missiles.

However, Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at the London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies, said Taiwan’s growing interest in land-attack cruise missiles could be countered by the Su-35’s “potential ability to detect small low-flying targets at ranges suitable to support an engagement.”

The IRBIS system’s 400-kilometer range “could provide a useful gap filler” to support the Chinese air force’s limited number of airborne warning and control system aircraft (AWACS), Barrie said. “It remains to become clear what, if any, long-range air-to-air missile might be supplied with the Su-35.”

Both the S-400 and Su-35S with IRBIS-E radar are “impressive steps in increasing capability,” said Lance Gatling of Nexial Research, a defense consulting firm in Tokyo. However, there are technical challenges to integrating China’s AWACS capability with the S-400 and IRBIS-E. “SAM radars, ground-based, have the radar horizon issue, so they can’t see planes at very low altitude over Taipei.”

Taiwan could use the jamming capabilities of its new early warning radar at Leshan Mountain, near Hsinchu, to play havoc with China’s various radar systems, said a Taiwan defense industry source. The Leshan facility is considered one of the most powerful radars in the world, and unconfirmed sources here indicate it relays data directly to the US military to allow for the monitoring of aircraft and missile activity within China.

Gatling said the ultimate question on China’s procurement of the IRBIS and S-400 systems is: “How advanced is the integrated air defense system, data management and data links” in China? At present, this is difficult to define, as much of China’s military capabilities remain opaque to outsiders.

China's New Jet, Radar Complicate US Posture | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

We always expect a strong enough China, which may throw US to its backyard

We Want a "Power Balance" in this world

a powerful China has always been a concern for its neighbors like Japan, India, Taiwan, Korea including Russia which also had wars with China during 50s and 60s. but there are enough positive aspects, which always make us think, "if India and other neighbors of China may defend themselves from China somehow, then a powerful China will only be meant to resist US and its allies."

for our concerns of Border Conflicts, we can't surrender our 'Sovereignty' to US and its allies, who always try to maintain flow of wealth from developing economies, "by either way". and we want to put a nail over them. :thumb:

for example of the news as below, we find limited difference between Al Qaeda and those who use them. its always so simple for us to understand that, not only Syria, but if we find violence in any part of world like how its continuing in Ukraine at present, then there is a certain amount of fund/ support from US/UK to destabilize those areas. like how they have been doing the same in many other countries too, including in India to an extent, as per my own experience.

Emerging economies are growing with a healthy pace and US and its allies are worried for this changing world. but we certainly don't want to let our half of the population get addicted of drugs, like how US/UK/Australia as a society have turned to date.

we simply find US and their allies to be less capable to reduce their crime rates, poor economic states of these OECD economies looks having no future. and hence, they are always found involved in doing crimes in developing economies, as per my own years long experience too. we simply dont want to allow those who may turn India in their color of the picture as below :disagree:

it will really interesting to see, how long will it really take India to convert from Blue to Red color, as discussed in the thread as below. :ranger:

 

I expected all latest Russian weapons to land in China sooner or later. So here we are.

India has decided to use Western technology for its radars and SAM systems. Maybe that will save India from China.

 

its really interesting to discuss, who will save whom, specially from those who are no where on this world platform...... i dont see even Vietnam ever looking on US for help with its rivalry with China?

how would you respond my post#20 as below, with post#11 of this same thread too? :ranger:

.

 

@sgarg

Vietnam is one of the closest military ally of India in its oil search in that region. I dont see even Vietnam ever looking on US for help with its rivalry with China?


as discussed in the post#5 of the thread

over 5.0mil+ military of Vietnam can well defend it from any border, while we may put upto 20mil+ military in service, if its needed for the people, the country, the society, Independence, for the sake of our coming generation

 

.
Im among the Indians, who always sideline with Russia for the following reasons :thumb:


=>
Russia's Multipolar World Vs US's World Government

Efforts to Establish a "BALANCE" in world

Further to the above discussion, today i was making a clear difference between my side with Russia, against the US's World Government, which wants to rule the world, but it doesn't share the "Equal Voting Rights" with those rest of the world including Indians, on whom the leaders of those 310million US's civilians want to 'Rule'......

the government of US, backed by EU, want to form that World Government which doesn't have "equal" voting rights with Indians in their parliamentary election, but they want to have every interference in India, to serve those US's civilians who have their leaders like Mr B.Obama......

and at the same time we have Russia on the other side, which favor Multi-Polar World, and support India and China both. we find Indian members making noise when Russia is going to sell its best Su35 aircraft to China, while the same type of noise we hear from Chinese members also when Russia not only sell its best arms to India, but it also comes with full technology transfer to India.........

and its all about dealing with two sides of politics of world. one about the US's World Government, which doesn't share "equal" voting rights in their general election by rest of the world like India, while the Russia on other side which favor 'equal' rights for Every Government on the world platform......

and one day i also reminded that, even if China and Vietnam have conflicts on oil search, then its not because Chinese communists are trying for their own pockets while Indians are trying for the democratic people of whole world. but whether China or Vietnam+India, both of these groups are trying to secure best stake in that area for good of their own people, who elected their leaders in these 3 countries to secure common interests of the people belonging to their countries.........

Neither US itself will share its Oil/Gas/Mineral resources with Indian Tax Payers, nor US's Tax Payers will share subsidy burden of Indian Middle Class, which provides hefty subsidy for the people below poverty line in India. and its equally foolish to think that US's Tax Payers would share any Infrastructure spending in India, to reduce its burden from the Indian Tax Payers. If a country is good, have better infrastructure/more resources etc, it will benefit only the people based in that certain country, whether India or US..... :ranger:

here, i also remember my one talk with few senior Russians in Sydney, when one senior once said that, "we would learn Chinese language, Mandarin, now." and i asked with surprise, "Chinese language?" and he said, "yes Chinese." and it again gave me a straight meaning from my Chinese friends from Malaysia+Singapore, that, "English is sign of our colonization..."

and yes, neither English is home language of India nor US Dollar is Indian currency, but if we may have Yuan as a world currency and Mandarin as a world language for the next 20 years, say, then it will definitely help us to maintain a "BALANCE" in this world, which is quite important

=> [//articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-05-14/news/39256081_1_language-course-mandarin-spoken-chinese]IIMs' tryst with Chinese: Mandarin emerges as popular course at B-schools - Economic Times]


=>

the above statement of the article is fit with my experience too. those who want to interfere in India believe,

"if they may buy General Manager of a firm, then they have got the whole firm this way."

"if you may buy those who have influence on the society, then you may control the whole society somehow/ someway."

"to handle Fate of the people of a country, if you may buy all those people who own high positions/ have proper influence on the society then this way you have got a level of control on that certain country this way."

and hence, i have made my above post in this thread, with demanding, "only those can handle fate of a society/ country, who are elected by that certain society. hence, until Mr B.Obama ensures 'equal' voting rights for the common Indian citizens in the general election of USA, he can't interfere in the internal matters of India."


=>

Further to the above post, i think my post as below may have a place here too :thumb:

 

Russian Defence Minister's visit to Pakistan 'significant': India

Read more at:
Russian Defence Minister's visit to Pakistan 'significant': India - The Economic Times

Let the game begin.

 

First Cut Comparison of Russia with US/EU (military strength comparison to follow.....)

and thats why i said, you would come to the thread of this forum, post#78..... just living in wrong fantasies? shameful

for example of 3 points of economic comparison as below :

1st; Total Debt: here we find Russia in world, as compare to OECD and BRIC economies

2nd; Per Capita Income: i just discussed, Russia was rising along with BRIC speed till the 2008 recession, and Per Capita Income of Russia and US since 2008 is compared as below, even if US is pumping twice oil/gas since 2008 too.

while i just discussed, even if UK has recovered its pre-crisis level economic size, its Per Capita Income adjusting inflation is still 5% less than pre-crisis level, along with more than twice debt since then too. and UK is one among most of the Eurozone economies....

3rd; along with hefty investment domestically, this is how they helping other nations too

=> From here, do you want to start Military Expenditure comparison of Russia? its military strength with rest of world, first have a look on US as below. while we do know about hefty cuts in Europe's military expenditures too :ranger:

=> we discussing economic state of US+EU as below too :thumb:

 

@asianobserve

hmmm it also confirm that these countries need debt relax, more needy, isn't it? just have a look on the amount of debt Russia has written off during last 7-8 years, more than $100bn+

from here, in response to your post# regarding "living standard" of Russians, we have a comparison as below :thumb:

(The Living Standard Comparison, w.r.t. to the Debt on the society as whole, the Total Debt, which includes government+business+household debt etc too.)

Per Capita Income PPP in 2013- World Bank

United Kingdom: $36,197

Italy: $34,303

Spain: $32,103

Russia: $24,120

Greece: $25,651

Poland: $23,275

(as the second most industrialized East European country after Russia, we find Poland is a good comparison :thumb: .)

=> Total Debt: and dont forget, in today's world, something that matters the most is as below. how much debt you have to pay back, before you become a rich nation..... and if i dare to say, considering the hefty resources Russia has, Russians have the most bright future in world at present, not surprised why they have thrown out over $100bn+ foreign aids for its poor friends recently

and its worth mentioning, as the interest rate payment occurs on the total debt, once inflation rise, and we need only one more 2008 type recession in this regard..... as we do understand that the way these OECD economies have doubled their debt since 2008 recession, they won't be able to borrow this time again
we may see a type of social unrest in OECD economies, on the back of one more recession like 2008-09....


=> and the Per Capita Income Growth Rate: a comparison: Russia was rising along with BRIC speed till the 2008 recession, and Per Capita Income of Russia and US since 2008 is compared as below, even if US is pumping twice oil/gas since 2008 too. and referring the above comparison, Russia isn't a developing country like Indonesia, India, China, Philippines, its well compared with developed country like US as below :ranger:

 

Putin: Talking to Russia from position of strength is meaningless

Russia is open to the rest of the world and ready for developing equal partnership with other countries, said Vladimir Putin He dismissed treatment Russia through strength and sanctions as ineffective and warned against scheming.

“Talking to Russia from a position of strength is meaningless,” said Putin in his annual state of the nation address to the Federal Assembly, stressing that the ‘deterrence policy’ towards Russia is nothing new.

“The deterrence policy was not invented yesterday, it has been always conducted towards our country, for decades, if not centuries,” Putin noted.

“Every time somebody considers Russia is becoming too powerful and independent, such instruments are turned on immediately,” said Putin.

US manipulating foreign relations of Russia’s neighbors
The US has always been, either directly or behind the scenes, affecting relations between Russia and its neighbors, the president said.

“I’ve mentioned our American friends for a good reason,” Putin said. “Because sometimes you don’t even know to whom it is better to talk to: the governments of certain countries or directly with their American patrons.”

ABM is a threat to US itself

Further deployment of America’s global anti-ballistic missile defense poses a threat to the US and those European countries that agreed to host it, because it builds up a dangerous illusion of invincibility, Putin said.

“This [ABM] constitutes a threat not only to the security of Russia, but to the whole world, in view of the possible destabilization of the strategic balance of powers. I believe this is dangerous for the US itself, as it creates a dangerous illusion of invulnerability and reinforces the tendency of unilateral, often ill-considered decisions and additional risks,” Putin said.

The European Phased Adaptive Approach, a centerpiece of the US missile defense shield in Europe, implies deployment of Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers, all of which are fitted with the Aegis weapon and radar system, interceptor batteries in Poland and Romania, radar in Turkey, and a command center at Ramstein, Germany, a US Air Force base.

Russia considers the system to be a major threat to its own security and has threatened to increase its own arsenals and missile shield piercing capabilities in response.

Russia says ‘no’ to arms race
Russia will not get involved in an expensive arms race, the president said, yet the country’s defensive capacity in the new conditions will be securely guaranteed.

“There’s no doubt about that – consider it done. Russia has both the capacity and creative decisions to do so,” Putin said.

READ MORE: Theft, graft in defense industry equals terrorism - Putin

Yugoslavia-style disintegration scenario for Russia failed
Russia has fought off attempts to initiate its disintegration, similar to the scenario applied to the former Yugoslavia, Putin said.

“They would make us follow the Yugoslavian scenario, with its disintegration and dismemberment of territory, with great relish and with all the resultant tragic consequences for the peoples of Russia. No way. We prevented it,” he said.

Putin also recalled the fate of Adolf Hitler, who also planned to destroy Russia, and the Nazis’ misanthropic ideas.

“Everyone should remember how that ended,” Putin said.


Russia & weakness incompatible
Russia cannot afford the liberty of being weak, Putin added.

“The more we retreat and offer excuses, the more impudent become our opponents, acting in the most cynical and aggressive manner,” Putin said.


Putin recalled the situation in the 1990s when Russia showed unprecedented openness to international cooperation, but it faced “the support of separatists from abroad: informational, political, financial and from intelligence agencies, was absolutely evident.”

READ MORE: Putin offers amnesty for money coming back to Russia

All that was taking place at a time when Russia “considered its recent enemies as close friends and nearly allies,” Putin said.

Ukraine – our ‘brother nation’
Vladimir Putin spelt out Russia’s special bond with Ukraine as being like a “brother nation” and despite the recent tension between the two countries, this relationship will not change.

"It is well known that Russia has not only supported Ukraine and other 'brother republics' of the former USSR in their seeking sovereignty, but also has contributed significantly to this process in early 1990s. Since then, our position has not changed. Each nation has an inalienable right to its own development path," the Russian president said.

Crimea’s reunification with Russia ‘historical’
The Russian president stated that Crimea was of huge civilizational and historical relevance for Russia. Putin stated how Crimea was to Russia, what Table Mount is to Jews and Judaism. He commented on how important as a spiritual reference the peninsula has for the Russian people, noting that Prince Vladimir was baptized in Crimea as a Christian, before he would eventually baptize all Rus.

“Exactly on these spiritual grounds our ancestors have perceived themselves as a common nation at the first time and forever,” Putin noted. “This gives us all reasons to say that Crimea is of enormous sacral importance for Russia,” he said with confidence, noting that “We will take this so once and forever.”

Writing the speech himself
The President's Federal Assembly address on the state of the nation and the country's major international and internal policies is one of the political highlights in the country. The annual speech is mentioned in the Russian constitution. This year the tradition marked its 20th anniversary - with the first address having been delivered by President Boris Yeltsin in February 1994.

The speech usually takes around an hour - with Putin's longest address having taken 82 minutes to deliver in 2012, and shortest 47 minutes in 2004. This year Putin spoke for just over an hour, in front of an audience of some 1,100 people at the Kremlin's Georgievsky hall.

With the current situation in the country - both in regards with economic situation and international relations, the president's address had been prepared by Putin himself, as well as last year's speech - a source in president's administration told RIA Novosti news agency.

 

a level of Cold war is always expected, and would continue for half of the century, i guess. but it won't escalate further as world has to survive.....

Chinese economy is expected to overtake US's economy on PPP term this year, and no way they are going to stop :ranger:

on the other side, US, as a representative of West as whole, is structured to dominate the world, its purpose to stand as it is. and there is a limit, the China will allow interference in its country.......

the so called "Industrialized Nations" (OECD economies) have first lost their industries to emerging economies to an extent, and only the war they may fight from now onward. and to what extent they want to de-establize this world, we have yet to see. the ongoing Climate Change problem :ranger:

 

"Rules of Civilization", the Rights of every Human Taking Birth in World

this is not the world, time of colonization, ruling those parts of world where US doesn't share voting rights in their parliamentary democratic election. we have many weapons to destroy this world many times, and we all have to live here altogether, we all know.

and if US and their allies dont stop til a certain time, then eventually we all will fall in a thorough war in whole world, which will be mainly fought for religion/race/identity/language/belief etc....

if in case US try to 'colonize' any part of the world, then the "Rules of Civilization" states that the colonized people have ever right to 'kill' the colonizers. a certain right, every single human has since birth :thumb:

we have to remain 'Civilized Enough', and the US and their allies have to learn it. without sharing 'equal' voting rights in any part of world, they may interfere there as 'friends' only :thumb:

 

Any Crime on the soil of BRIC must be a Punishable Offence

sir, if US and their allies do any crime in any part of world, it must bring a price for them on their own soil. i mean, if US and their allies like UK may do something on the soil of BRIC, then BRIC must be able to make them pay a 'fit' price on their own soil. for example of location wise, Russia may even crush whole UK/Britain within a day, and it would definitely help the establishments of US learn a lesson too. in fact, crushing whole UK by air/water and other means within a day, too easy for Russia, will suddenly help us get a 2009 type recession in world which will eventually help these highly indebted OECD economies learn enough, while Russia already has too many sanctions..... Eurozone economy still below its 2008 level, the way they have borrowed so much debt since then, any more 2008-09 type recession will eventually 'finish' them....

Doing crimes on the soil of BRIC must be a punishable offence, the people behind any wrong on the soil of BRIC must not be allowed to walk away unpunished. there must not be any reason, why they can't be punished, just because territories of US/UK may defend those certain criminals. if the establishments of US/UK allow criminal activities in any part of world, by using their government agencies funded by the tax payers/voters who elected these governments of US/UK, then it will be a price for all the voters/tax payers of US/UK, which must be demonstrated with whatever arms, the BRIC have :thumb:

 

We have an All Out War on Our Head

things aren't that easy, its too complex/complicate, and too hard to ignore for China/Russia or any other developing country like India too.....

US/UK have serious involvements in china and other developing countries, which they simply can’t ignore. An ‘all out’ war is on our head at present, which won’t be delayed for more than a year, hopefully not but this is what we have at present….. And only UK looks an easy hit, such a small country and have done serious crimes in different parts of world, the center of Commonwealth, and it won’t survive on long run, I don’t think so, considering their too objectionable involvements in other countries....

Things are so tough that, we may see an “all out war” to just target voters/tax payers of UK/US, as now we have a people to people war with those democratic countries, US/UK, who don’t have voting rights for rest of the world in their democratic parliamentary election but are involved with serious crimes in other countries. …. and as they have developed few key techs, and as they won't like to give up their grip from rest of world so easily, neither BRIC or other countries may live with the things ongoing too, we are just waiting for a start in this regard from somewhere :ranger:

And as I mentioned in my last post, and considering the level of serious crimes the UK/Commonwealth nations have organized in most of the parts of world where they dont share voting right in their democratic parliamentary election, we may soon see a certain single day, when UK is totally wiped out from the world map…..

And it would be the very first step in this ‘would be’ all out war, which has threatened we all :ranger:

 

deleted..........

 

and thats what their policy, if they may defend themselves from rising China, they prefer to give enough weight on China to put it against the US :ranger:

they have "multi-polar" world policy, and they think China need to be helped more for the purpose ....