Provoking India will lead to Military action : Navy Chief Admiral to China

[J20!]

You can punch our jaw, we can kick your nuts. Sums up the whole dialogue.

The whole imaginery dialogue? Show me the quote if you can sir...

 

[India22]

You're not making sense. Think anout the impact of what you're saying.

Chinese industry needs goods passing through those waters to produce the final goods which world trade depends on. A closure of Malacca would have far reaching economic and world market consequences. Even the Indian economy would be impacted.

Can the Indian Navy divert all its naval vessels and aircraft to the Malacca straits? Does it have the logistic capability (support ships, port facilities, air basing facilities on the Andaman and Nicobar Islands) to do so? Let alone the Lombok straits?

Even if it did, check the number of modern surface and sub surface vessels and support ships attached to the South Seas Fleet of the Chinese Navy. It almost matches up to the strength of the whole IN.

The Indian Navy would have to throw its entire inventory into and around Malacca to "hit" every vessel going through malacca. Does the IN even have the amunition stores to do so?

And to suggests that Asian countries would be blase about the IN threatening to blow up their civilian shipping in an international waterway is beyond ludicrous.

The only country with the military, economic and political weight to pull off such a feat would be the US. And still they'd have to flout their so called "freedom of navigation" and suffer economic repurcussions to do it.

Every battle has far reaching economic consequences. Decline of Chinese goods will lead to emergence Indian, German, Japanese, Taiwanese and South Korean goods. China's export is already failing.

Yes Indian navy can, considering Pakistan does not do anything.

India has lots of naval bases on Bay of Bengal Coast. Supplying will be no problem. Other Asian countries already detest China. And who said India will hit every ship? Chinese navy will be locked outside of Malacca. Only those ships going to China, a search is required for this.

The amount of area we have to cover is actually pretty small

 

[India22]

We ask ships to stop, they stop, we ask where are they going, they say their destination, if the destination is not China to verify we ask respective's country embassy till then we say stay where you are. If it is confirmed that their destination is not China then go. If it is China then abandon ship or surrender ship to Indian forces.

 

[J20!]

Every battle has far reaching economic consequences. Decline of Chinese goods will lead to emergence Indian, German, Japanese, Taiwanese and South Korean goods. China's export is already failing.

Yes Indian navy can, considering Pakistan does not do anything.

India has lots of naval bases on Bay of Bengal Coast. Supplying will be no problem. Other Asian countries already detest China. And who said India will hit every ship? Chinese navy will be locked outside of Malacca. Only those ships going to China, a search is required for this.

The amount of area we have to cover is actually pretty small

Think through what you're saying.

For your fantasy blockade to work, you'd need thousands of personnel to board n search hundreds of commercial ships. Does the IN even have the numbers of helicopters and boats to do so? The logistic supply ships to refuel and rearm those boats n heli's as well as the vessels they'd be operating from? Or would those ships be sailing to and from "ports on India's Eastern Seaboard" to refuel and rearm?

How many surface ships does the IN have available at this very moment to embark on this operation? And how many would they need to engage the Chinese Navy protecting those vessels whilst they "board and search" every Chinese flagged vessel headed for Mallaca.

And what about the ships using the Lombok straits? Will the IN block that too?

What does Pakistan have to do with this again?

And even if your "blockade" was possiblen you do realize that many indian companies depend on supply lines of Chinese machinery and other goods to be competitive right? How many depend on the Chinese market? How would indian Financial markets do during your theoretical blockade? How would any Indian govt survive poilitically after deliberatly flushing India's economy down the drain.

There are so many logistical/technological/military/strategic/geostrategic/economic factors you're just ignoring to fantasize about a chest-thumping Indian Navy "heriocally" blockading China.

China is not Pakistan and this isn't the 70's.

 

[J20!]

We ask ships to stop, they stop, we ask where are they going, they say their destination, if the destination is not China to verify we ask respective's country embassy till then we say stay where you are. If it is confirmed that their destination is not China then go. If it is China then abandon ship or surrender ship to Indian forces.

And you're going to enforce this "process" on hundreds of ships in an International waterway?

Legal issues aside, you haven't addressed the logistics necessary to make your dream blockade a reality.

 

[India22]

Think through what you're saying.

For your fantasy blockade to work, you'd need thousands of personnel to board n search hundreds of commercial ships. Does the IN even have the numbers of helicopters and boats to do so? The logistic supply ships to refuel and rearm those boats n heli's as well as the vessels they'd be operating from? Or would those ships be sailing to and from "ports on India's Eastern Seaboard" to refuel and rearm?

How many surface ships does the IN have available at this very moment to embark on this operation? And how many would they need to engage the Chinese Navy protecting those vessels whilst they "board and search" every Chinese flagged vessel headed for Mallaca.

And what about the ships using the Lombok straits? Will the IN block that too?

What does Pakistan have to do with this again?

And even if your "blockade" was possiblen you do realize that many indian companies depend on supply lines of Chinese machinery and other goods to be competitive right? How many depend on the Chinese market? How would indian Financial markets do during your theoretical blockade? How would any Indian govt survive poilitically after deliberatly flushing India's economy down the drain.

There are so many logistical/technological/military/strategic/geostrategic/economic factors you're just ignoring to fantasize about a chest-thumping Indian Navy "heriocally" blockading China.

China is not Pakistan and this isn't the 70's.

Yes, IN has. Industry can build hundreds of smaller vessels to carry out the work. We dont even have to embark on ships, we need to ask them via radio and get answer. About logistics I have already mentioned Bay of Bengal has Indian navy bases. It has to do with Pakistan because if Pakistan attacks India then navy has to divert ships. The Indian financial companies which depend on China is not going to be affected. EU and indigenous products are available.

And same time if we just block tankers it will do the work too.

 

[J20!]

Yes, IN has. Industry can build hundreds of smaller vessels to carry out the work. We dont even have to embark on ships, we need to ask them via radio and get answer. About logistics I have already mentioned Bay of Bengal has Indian navy bases. It has to do with Pakistan because if Pakistan attacks India then navy has to divert ships. The Indian financial companies which depend on China is not going to be affected. EU and indigenous products are available.

And same time if we just block tankers it will do the work too.

Whatever dude. I've wasted enuf time on this nonsense already.

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[India22]

All India needs is Vidyut Class missile boats. This time they will be upgraded and able to fire modern Brahmos. 5 Squadrons, 12 missile boats per each squadron, are enough to handle this threat. Frigates can wait to refuel boats and take crews of China bound ships.

 

[airtel]

Not to turn this into a d-measuring contest, but the Chinese navy's South Sea Fleet alone is very competitive when compared to the IN's entire vessel inventory.

Malaysia and Indonesia are count as some of China's biggest trading partners. Why exactly would they want a blockade of Chinese shipping? Indonesia is a large operator of Chinese defense tech too, and not too long ago, they allowed the PLAN to perform excercises in the vicinity of the Lombok straits.

The only "beligerent" party here would be the armed services trying to blockade shipping that counts as vital trade for many Asian economies, whilst attempting to detain or divert their own flagged vessels.

None of your hypothetical naval blockade theories seem practical gents.

today's news >>

India, Indonesia to boost maritime relations in China’s ‘backyard’



To counter China’s increasing claims over the disputed South China Seas (SCS), India and Indonesia have vowed to bolster maritime ties .

Both nations have also decided to maintain a maritime legal order based on the principles of international law, as reflected in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

“Both leaders recognised the importance of freedom of navigation and overflight on the high seas, unimpeded lawful commerce, as well as resolving maritime disputes by peaceful means, in accordance with universally recognised principles of international law including the UNCLOS,” said a statement on India and Indonesia Maritime Cooperation.

The statement was issued after a bilateral meeting between Indonesian President Joko Widodo and Prime Minister Narendra Modi here on Monday.

In an unstated but clear reference to China, both leaders also asserted that India and Indonesia share common interests in ensuring maritime security and the safety of sea lines of communication.

Indonesia has been vociferously challenging Chinese aggression in some of the disputed islands located in the South China Sea. Indonesian warplanes have been showcasing their strength in close proximity to a region in the SCS, which is claimed by China.

Although India has not yet taken any sides officially on the matter, it has made it amply clear that it is against such aggression that adversely impacts trade and commerce over the SCS.

According to the joint statement, both sides emphasised the importance of further consolidating the security and defence cooperation.

As a result, both leaders directed their respective Defence Ministers to secure an early convening of a Defence Ministers’ Dialogue and the Joint Defence Cooperation Committee (JDCC) Meeting to review and upgrade the existing ‘Agreement on Cooperative Activities in the Fields of Defence’ to a substantive bilateral Defence Cooperation Agreement.

Trade ministers’ forum


For the first time ever, both countries decided to set up a Biennial Trade Ministers’ Forum in an effort to “remove impediments to trade and investment,” the joint statement said.



(This article was published on December 12, 2016)


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...-ties-with-an-eye-on-china/article9423696.ece

 

[armyofhind]

And you're going to enforce this "process" on hundreds of ships in an International waterway?

Legal issues aside, you haven't addressed the logistics necessary to make your dream blockade a reality.

When a war at sea breaks out, the countries involved do not have any legal liability towards the vessels plying on routes which might go through the AO, international waterway or not.

It's up to the Commercial Shipping to circumvent or avoid the area altogether.
Legal liability my ass.

 

[India22]

In case of war with Pakistan we would hit Gwadar too. It is up to China whether they stay in belligerent nation or not. Gwadar as long as it is not leased or bought by China remains in Pakistan. It is up to China whether they risk war with India for a loss of few ships or not.

 

[no smoking]

Like I said:-



Option 1:

Shipping information is open-source. Once you know the IMO numbers of all ships heading to China, you can locate and track each and every one of these as they enter the waters near Malacca. The ships that try to evade arrest can be hailed on radio via their MMSI number, and warned to stop and head towards Car Nicobar. Ships that continue to disregard warnings can be forcibly boarded by MARCOS or VBSS teams (depending on threat perception levels) to arrest or neutralise rouge ship crew and commandeer the vessel. Alternatively, a rouge vessel deemed to be armed can be shot and sunk.

Chinese can simply set up hundreds of dummy companies in South Korea, Japan, Thailand, etc, buying oil from Arab or Africa. All the paperwork and certification will show the destination of these ships to third country. They can reloaded their cargo on the ship to China in the third countries, or simply instruct these ships to change the destination since they just sell their cargo to a new buyer who happens to be Chinese.

Option 2:

Another way to make this happen is by making it mandatory for ALL ships passing through Malacca to make a stop at Car Nicobar (or some other island they choose to develop good port facilities on). Each vessel's cargo, crew and heading can be ascertained and then they can be allowed to pass through the straits. Any ships that resist this procedure can be dealt with as a rouge ship in the manner stated above. Now you might say that is impossible, but considering the daily traffic in these straits is ~250 ships (upper estimate) it is fairly possible.

That is a lovely plan.

1. Forcing unarmed and harmless civilian ships to stop at a port from international sea? You definitely need the permission from Americans.

2. Each ship is working on the clock, any delay on their journey will cost them a fortune. Any failure to reach the destination in time will impose huge amount of penalty on their owner. Now the question is: is Indian government going to compensate that?

 

[no smoking]

We ask ships to stop, they stop, we ask where are they going, they say their destination, if the destination is not China to verify we ask respective's country embassy till then we say stay where you are.

After the ship gets into SCS, the captain just receives a instruction from the employer:"As the cargo on your ship is sold to a new buyer minutes ago, now you have a new destination---CHINA".

 

[angeldude13]

Show me the quote where he actually said that. The only quotes in evidence in that article are where he says

they(IN) monitor PLAN activity in the IOR, which is a given.

They have the capability to respond to any threat in the IOR.

Where there is Chinese shipping, they expect to see the Chinese Navy.

All mild, logical statements that make sense. Nowhere in that article is he QUOTED saying the IN can or will block Chinese shipping passing thru the IOR or the Malacca Straits or any refference to Chinese "belligerence" in the SCS.

The rest is Hyperbole extrapolated by the author/s of that article and overly nationalistic posters on this thread.

Why would we target PLAN merchant ships?
But each and every PLAN ship in IOR will be harassed.

 

[airtel]

After the ship gets into SCS, the captain just receives a instruction from the employer:"As the cargo on your ship is sold to a new buyer minutes ago, now you have a new destination---CHINA".

and after that all the cargo ships of that company will be blocked .

 

[airtel]

Why would we target PLAN merchant ships?
But each and every PLAN ship in IOR will be harassed.

we will have to block each & every ship which is Going to China ................................we will have to block all the Chinese shipping companies .

 

[India22]

After the ship gets into SCS, the captain just receives a instruction from the employer:"As the cargo on your ship is sold to a new buyer minutes ago, now you have a new destination---CHINA".

We track ship through satellites, You hit our satellites and we hit yours.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/indias-anti-satellite-weapons/ Lets not forget US will not lose this opportunity to hit China. They may even give us ASAT weapons.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

We track ship through satellites, You hit our satellites and we hit yours.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/indias-anti-satellite-weapons/ Lets not forget US will not lose this opportunity to hit China. They may even give us ASAT weapons.

India didn't test?
On 8th August 2016, when India placed INSAT 3DR in GTO by GSLV F05. Just look at the accuracy of apogee, enough to kill doubts about India's ASAT capabilities.

 

[no smoking]

and after that all the cargo ships of that company will be blocked .

On what legal base?
Are you applying your domestic law to international company?
You can block the ship from sailing towards China that you already did, but you can't forbid these companies to sell their cargo to China. They are not Indian companies, these are not Indian ship, they are sailing in international water, they have no liability to obey your law.
You can't even accuse these ships of fake claim since they were sailing towards anther country at the time you check.
The only threat you can make is that any shipping company sailing to China will be forbidden in Indian market. But considering the gap of market size between India and China, I really don't think these companies will give a damn for that.

 

[airtel]

On what legal base?
Are you applying your domestic law to international company?
.

ROFL , China which does not care Ruling of International court of justice related to SCS .................Is now talking about legal basis & International laws ......... :chicken::chicken::chicken: