Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by plugwater, Jul 11, 2010.
HSL and Adani were promoting what kind of sub ?
it is a complicated solution. If it is Scorpene, you have to train a new dock just for 3 ships, and if it is not Scorpene, you have to train 2 docks just for 3 each !
but it will create a ecosystem in private sector which in future can be used to manufacture submarines at faster rate.
They are Indian bidders no partnership with any foreign vendor . now L&T and MDL will have to tie up with who ever wins the P75-i . It will be mostly MDL getting P75i, L&T is just kept in the race so that no future allegations come from private industry saying they were ignored .
If it is MDL then France has already won.
Project 75I RFP to be issued by mid-2020.
It's better to cancel p75i tender if it's going to be inducted by 27-32 because by 2022-23 scorpene manufacturing line will be closed,all the technological expertise gained by building scorpene submarine will be lost just like HDW U-209.better to order scorpene enlarged just like Brazil with our Desi AIP and also cost will be much less and time can be saved by continued manufacturing.saved money could be used for other naval projects.
For fucks sake, just build 6 more Scorpene with DRDO AIP, or French AIP. Induction by only 2027 is madness. We need to be churning out submarines right now.
Bhai navy ko bhi nautanki ka quota poora karna hai.
The gap of 5 years is enough to cause a massive institutional loss.
We learnt nothing from HDW class.
seems like planners sitting in navy are dumb as rock.
Cancelling P75 I is not a good idea , we can go for 3 more scorpene class sub , it will take some time to complete the trials . Navy don't have much budget , it will take more Money for operating than building , the salary of crew itself will be huge burden for Navy . Producing cheep copies like Chinkies is always a bad idea , we need technologically advanced subs
Which is what is exactly happening right? Not sure about the DRDO AIP though, head some issues with life and performance... have they been ironed out?
This isnt true.... its also a question of how much the navy can finance, if you include the new Akula Lease, the Nuclear Sub program and this... submarines alone need 2.5 lakh crores in the coming years... issue is always the money, so the construction gets spread out... Naval planners arent slow or oblivious to the danger.. paisa nahi hai boss... gareeb desh hai apna...fact hai!
Dmitry Shugaev, director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation informed in interviews- 1) #Russia has great chances to win tender for construction of submarines equipped with AIP for #IndianNavy 2) India is offered joint production (1/n)
Navantia Pitching S80 Plus Submarine For India’s P-75I During UDS 2020
The Cartagena shipyard Engineering Director, Germán Romero Valiente, made a presentation of the characteristics and capacities of the Spanish S80 Plus submarine, which is a unique product in the international market for its size and capacity, thanks to its AIP system.
This edition of UDS has had a record participation with attendees and lecturers from 36 countries, and in this occassion Navantia has been able to report on progress of the S80 Plus submarine program, both from the constructive point of view, as of a robust design that makes it suitable for export.
Currently, the first submarine in the series has passed the hull closure milestone and is scheduled to be floated at the end of this year 2020, tested during 2021, and delivered to the Spanish Navy in 2022.
The AIP (Air Independant Propulsion) system has been developed specifically for the project by the Spanish company Abengoa (bioethanol reformer) and the American Collins Aerospace (fuel cells). The AIP system is much more versatile and efficient than others on the market. Among other advantages, it uses an agricultural bio-ethanol, available internationally, fuel cell membranes require half the maintenance of the market standard, and its efficiency allows it to operate for periods of up to 3 weeks underwater.
The S-80 Plus submarine is a last generation highly technological product, whose versatility allows the export. Currently Navantia is offering a design derived from this submarine to the Indian Navy, for the P75(I) program, for design and construction of 6 units.
As well, Navantia was also invited to a panel of experts where future trends in rescue and underwater rescue were discussed.
About India’s P-75I
The Indian government shortlisted in January 2020 two Indian shipyards and five foreign defense companies for the P-75I project which calls for the local construction of six conventional submarines.
The two local shipyards that were shortlisted are the privately owned L&T group and state-owned MDL. The five foreign defense companies are:
Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering DSME (South Korea)
Naval Group (France)
Rubin Design Bureau (Russia)
ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems TKMS (Germany)
About S80 Plus ::
The S80 class (or Isaac Peral class) are AIP (air independent propulsion) submarines currently under construction for the Spanish Navy. Four boats have been ordered, all are under construction by Navantia at its yard in Cartagena. Construction of the submarines had been suspended in early 2013, when it was found that the first submarine in the series, the Isaac Peral, was 75 to 100 tons too heavy relative to its length.
General Dynamics Electric Boat was brought in by Navantia through a Foreign Military Sale in 2013 to tackle the weight distribution issues. Each submarine has been stretched with a 10 meters ring to better distribute the weight of the submarine, giving them the new “S80 Plus” or “S80 Flight II” designation. The intended delivery date of the first submarine is December 2022.
The AIP System is based on a fuel cell, which uses hydrogen produced through bioethanol and oxygen processing to generate electricity, allowing the submarine to sail for weeks without surfacing. The first submarine that will have this operating system will be the S83, “Cosme García”. The AIP system will be installed in July 2021. The submarines S81 and S82, currently under construction, will be upgraded with the AIP module in their first scheduled major overhaul period.
S80 is stretched BY ERROR. a miscalculation induced a 10m lenght increase !
Add to that a US combat system, and a non mature product. It has vitualy no chance to win.
The original plan was to establish two parallel lines of production with project 75 and 75i. By building 6 subs in each project with tot.
Then build 6 indegenious ssk by using tech obtained in 75 and 75i.
Thus having 18ssk and 6 ssn extra.
And then build more indegious ssk as required in future.
Navantia presents S80 Plus Submarine For India’s P-75I at Underwater Defence & Security 2020 Conference
Navantia is participating in the P75(I) project using as reference design our S80 plus, the only 3000 ton AIP submarine currently under construction worldwide. This baseline is very close to the requirements of the Indian Navy, possibly the closest among all shortlisted competitors, and meets the Indian ambition with minimum risk. For this reason, a technical effort at this stage is minimum and Navantia is focusing on other aspects such as the indigenization of major equipment and materials, and Transfer of Technology (ToT) opportunities.
More than 100 companies in India are already in contact with Navantia for the indigenization of equipment and materials, and around 200 are expected to participate in the event, which will be the forum for explaining areas of cooperation, and organizing one-to-one interviews. Key S80 Plus equipment suppliers shall also participate to explore indigenisation opportunities for components, or fabrication in India. All Indian suppliers are very welcome.
About India’s P-75I:
The Indian government shortlisted in January 2020 two Indian shipyards and five foreign defense companies for the P-75I project which calls for the local construction of six conventional submarines. The two local shipyards that were shortlisted are the privately owned L&T group and state-owned MDL. The five foreign defense companies are Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering DSME (South Korea), Navantia (Spain), Naval Group (France), Rubin Design Bureau (Russia)and ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems TKMS (Germany).
About S-80 Plus-class submarine:
The S-80 Plus class is a Spanish class of four submarines in production by the Spanish company Navantia in its Cartagena shipyard for the Spanish Navy. In common with other contemporary submarines, they feature air-independent propulsion.
S-80 Plus-class submarines are designed to improve threat scenario missions. Their operational mobility will allow them to operate in remote areas, travelling discreetly at high speeds. Their air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, of new technological design, will ensure their ability to remain in an area for a very long period of time without being detected and their ability to operate in possible conflict zones.
In terms of specifications, the S-80 Plus-class submarines have a full load displacement of 3,200 tons, a total length of 81.05 m (265.9 ft), a beam of 11.68 m (38.3 ft) and a draught of 6.20 m (20.3 ft). With a cruising speed of 12 knots, the S-80 Plus-class submarines offer a range of 8,000 nm. The submarine can accommodate 32 personnel (plus 8 troops).
The S-80 Plus-class submarines are equipped with 6 × 533 mm torpedo tubes with DM2A4 torpedoes and Harpoon missiles.
S80 is :
- a badly adapted Scorpene derivative (they were obliged to add a 10m add-on on the hull because of a design failure...)
- equipped with a US combat system. Good luck for the freedom to adapt it, and to adapt non US weapons.
- very expensive.
- non operational yet.
The sole probable asset is that as a Scorpene derivative it is, after a new Scorpene batch, the most easy to produce in Mazagon dock.
What about the leak of acoustic signatures and other confidential information in the public domain.thats the only problem
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