Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[AmoghaVarsha]

Corus wasfor sale. Corus ia not a high technology company. Corus was under loss due to recession and hence was auctioned.

Rolls Royce has sold its automobile division,marine division, power divisodietc but the defence division is still present.

Defence division has lot of classified data about aero engine, nuclear submarine, aircraft carrier etc. By all means, this division is under control of the government directly. The ownership is only partial. Even if the division ia sold, the entire patents, the patented machinery and the IPR will be with UK government.

Corus was not for sale. A unsolicited bid was made by the Tatas which was later accepted then a bidding war started. Tge recession hadnot started when Corus was bought.

RR holdings plc is a publically listed company and not under govt control. All IPR are owned by the company and the owners will get access to it.

With Brexit and the looming trade war RR will suffer more its stock and profitability is already under pressure. British companies are being bought by outsiders and since Indians have a lot of goodwill there and are considered a non threat a Indian company should target RR in future. The chinese ofcourse wont get their hands on RR.

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[Armand2REP]

Corus wasfor sale. Corus ia not a high technology company. Corus was under loss due to recession and hence was auctioned.

Rolls Royce has sold its automobile division,marine division, power divisodietc but the defence division is still present.

Defence division has lot of classified data about aero engine, nuclear submarine, aircraft carrier etc. By all means, this division is under control of the government directly. The ownership is only partial. Even if the division ia sold, the entire patents, the patented machinery and the IPR will be with UK government.

Rolls Royce just laid off 5000 over their Trent engine failures and now another 4000 are going with their marine division because of their failed Mermaid pods. They are focusing on their core defence and aerospace activities even though they failed with the Type 45 and Astute propulsion but I guess they are such a critical industry the UK government wouldn't sue them over that.

 

[Kshithij]

Corus was not for sale. A unsolicited bid was made by the Tatas which was later accepted then a bidding war started. Tge recession hadnot started when Corus was bought.

RR holdings plc is a publically listed company and not under govt control. All IPR are owned by the company and the owners will get access to it.

With Brexit and the looming trade war RR will suffer more its stock and profitability is already under pressure. British companies are being bought by outsiders and since Indians have a lot of goodwill there and are considered a non threat a Indian company should target RR in future. The chinese ofcourse wont get their hands on RR.

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The defenxe research is funded by the government and ia not a risk taken by the company. So, the IPR and patents belong to the government. The same applies in countries like USA. The owners only have manufacturing rights, not the technology itself. Otherwise countries like Saudi Arabia or China would have paid for the companies and bought them.

Rolls Royce just laid off 5000 over their Trent engine failures and now another 4000 are going with their marine division because of their failed Mermaid pods. They are focusing on their core defence and aerospace activities even though they failed with the Type 45 and Astute propulsion but I guess they are such a critical industry the UK government wouldn't sue them over that.

The research fund for type 45 and astute was given by UK and was pushed forward without proper testing in a hurry. That is not exactly Rolls Royce quality problem. Research is not always guaranteed to yield results. In this case it didn't yield in the fiest attempt. But since the funding for research was from government, Rolls-Royce would not suffer a loss. UK can't sue Rolls-Royce as nowhere can one say that research will definitely yield desirable results in a time bound manner

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

The defenxe research is funded by the government and ia not a risk taken by the company. So, the IPR and patents belong to the government. The same applies in countries like USA. The owners only have manufacturing rights, not the technology itself. Otherwise countries like Saudi Arabia or China would have paid for the companies and bought them.

The research fund for type 45 and astute was given by UK and was pushed forward without proper testing in a hurry. That is not exactly Rolls Royce quality problem. Research is not always guaranteed to yield results. In this case it didn't yield in the fiest attempt. But since the funding for research was from government, Rolls-Royce would not suffer a loss. UK can't sue Rolls-Royce as nowhere can one say that research will definitely yield desirable results in a time bound manner

Chinese and Saudis will not get clearance to take over companies because they are in a dictator ruled state. All companies are ultimately govt owned in those states.

The particular project related IPR may belong to the govt but the entire IPR of the company doesnot.

RR has developed various jet engines for fighter jets. They have the technological know how to develop more. An Indian company will get access to this know how to develop such engines for India. This 9s not under govt control.

RR can be sued for deficiency of services.

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[Kshithij]

Chinese and Saudis will not get clearance to take over companies because they are in a dictator ruled state. All companies are ultimately govt owned in those states.

The particular project related IPR may belong to the govt but the entire IPR of the company doesnot.

RR has developed various jet engines for fighter jets. They have the technological know how to develop more. An Indian company will get access to this know how to develop such engines for India. This 9s not under govt control.

RR can be sued for deficiency of services.

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Let me put it bluntly - entire defence and strategic section of RR is own3d by UK govt. UK govt can withdraw the license anytime and give it to another company any time. This means that UK can simply sttip RR of its IPR and give it to BAE.

RR can be sued for deficiency of service but not things beyond its knowledge. The new engine or propulsion was not deficiency of service. RR had just made a development of new propulsion and was not given enough time to extensively test it. UK government was in a hurry to get the new items and hence forced RR to deliver whatever they had. The problems thus caused will be considered beyong RR's control

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Let me put it bluntly - entire defence and strategic section of RR is own3d by UK govt. UK govt can withdraw the license anytime and give it to another company any time. This means that UK can simply sttip RR of its IPR and give it to BAE.

RR can be sued for deficiency of service but not things beyond its knowledge. The new engine or propulsion was not deficiency of service. RR had just made a development of new propulsion and was not given enough time to extensively test it. UK government was in a hurry to get the new items and hence forced RR to deliver whatever they had. The problems thus caused will be considered beyong RR's control

No its not owned by the govt. The govt may or may not own the IPR for a particular project they funded. They dont own the staff or the people who worked on that project.

Similarly if RR is bought by an Indian company they can very well use the same people to develop a similar project for India and IPR will be with Indians.

Do you understand that?

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[BON PLAN]

All the conventional subs will have AIP, as the report says.

?
NO. See Australian next gen sub : Short fin Barracuda.

 

[Jumbo]

?
NO. See Australian next gen sub : Short fin Barracuda.

Sir, if I am not wrong, in that post, I was talking about Russian conventional subs, which they offered recently.

 

[BON PLAN]

Sir, if I am not wrong, in that post, I was talking about Russian conventional subs, which they offered recently.

Dear Sir,
The forum is about P75I. So not specially russian Sub.
And I'm quite sure this tender will not be win by a russian product (LADA/AMUR is all but a finished product, KILO is now a too old design. A good one, but dated).

 

[Jumbo]

Dear Sir,
The forum is about P75I. So not specially russian Sub.
And I'm quite sure this tender will not be win by a russian product (LADA/AMUR is all but a finished product, KILO is now a too old design. A good one, but dated).

Sir, I am not sure and that is why I can't answer about that tender.

 

[ramdas hegde]

just buid som kilo's with upgraded technology and AIP, Brahmos etc.
with HSL done some MLU/overhaul they must know something about desigh of the sub

 

[ramdas hegde]

within this P75-I tender-retender-select-building-time overruns (which is 14-15 years time frame)
navy could definitely design their own SSK class. create a submarine building duopoly with L&T MDL (like in US Japan). maybe the result would not be the best,but you have to start somewhere (like Chinese and Koreans did).

 

[ramdas hegde]

within this P75-I tender-retender-select-building-time overruns (which is 14-15 years time frame)
navy could definitely design their own SSK class. create a submarine building duopoly with L&T MDL (like in US Japan). maybe the result would not be the best,but you have to start somewhere (like Chinese and Koreans did).

or build one or two small test Submarines.

 

[Kshithij]

within this P75-I tender-retender-select-building-time overruns (which is 14-15 years time frame)
navy could definitely design their own SSK class. create a submarine building duopoly with L&T MDL (like in US Japan). maybe the result would not be the best,but you have to start somewhere (like Chinese and Koreans did).

From where did you learn of 14-15 year timeline or tender for P75I? Have you not read the news that MDL has been chosen by nomination basis already?

 

[BON PLAN]

just buid som kilo's with upgraded technology and AIP, Brahmos etc.
with HSL done some MLU/overhaul they must know something about desigh of the sub

A MLU and/or an overhaul never give you the know how about how to weld this special high elastic limit steel , or how to calculate the shell.
So it's probably harder than that.

 

[BON PLAN]

within this P75-I tender-retender-select-building-time overruns (which is 14-15 years time frame)
navy could definitely design their own SSK class. create a submarine building duopoly with L&T MDL (like in US Japan). maybe the result would not be the best,but you have to start somewhere (like Chinese and Koreans did).

I just hope it will be faster and more successfull than Tejas saga.

 

[Kshithij]

I just hope it will be faster and more successfull than Tejas saga.

P75I is already confirmed. MDL has been selected on nomination basis. Scorpene is being built in additional numbers

 

[ramdas hegde]

From where did you learn of 14-15 year timeline or tender for P75I? Have you not read the news that MDL has been chosen by nomination basis already?

is there any official confirmation of MDL nomination?.if that's true than i am happy.

 

[ramdas hegde]

A MLU and/or an overhaul never give you the know how about how to weld this special high elastic limit steel , or how to calculate the shell.
So it's probably harder than that.

i said obout design. and india constructed SSBN so that means they know about Submarine hull construction, MDL built scorpenes so they have knowledge that must count for something.

 

[ramdas hegde]

In October 2008, the Indian Navy issued a Request for Information (RFI) to a number of foreign shipyards and design firms for construction of a class of advanced diesel-electric submarines. The RFIs were sent to
Rosoboronexport, Armaris and HDW , among others. [1][4] Originally the navy intended to purchase two submarines directly from the foreign vendor, with four licence-built at chosen local Indian shipyards in order to save time. [5] Acceptance of Necessity was accorded to the project by the Defence Acquisition Council in August 2010. [6] In December 2014, the new NDA government fast-tracked the bidding process for Project 75I due to mounting concerns over increasing People's Liberation Army Navy activities in the Indian Ocean region. [1][7] and diminishing submarine strength of the Indian navy. [8] Later it was decided to construct all six submarines in Indian shipyards in accordance with the Make in India initiative of the government.

From where did you learn of 14-15 year timeline or tender for P75I? Have you not read the news that MDL has been chosen by nomination basis already?

so that's already almost 10years . don't you think it'll take another 4years to keel laying of first sub (if they sign project this year)
above info from Wikipedia