Project 15 & 17: GoI Funds Plan to Build New Stealth Destroyers

J

John

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it is not truth!

even one USA's Aegis DDG costs only 1.3 billion USD while one India's P17 FFG costs 1.4 billion USD(10 billion for 7 P17).

however, one USA's Aegis DDG is much more powerful than one India's P17.

Frankly speaking, if the 7 P17 really cost 10 billion USD, then I suspect that your corrupted Indian officials must get some bribery from the deal.

It is impossible that the real cost of P17 FFG is even more than that of one Aegis DDG

Dont worry as we speak the IN is evaluating the AEGIS system too and the P-17A will in most probability feature SM-2/3 interceptors which will render all of Chinese and Paki medium range ballistic missiles useless against India. P-17 will be deadlier than all Chinese ships simply because it could even carry The Brahmos-2 Hypersonic cruise missile which will be ready by 2012, well in time to be fitted on the P-17A, even with the simple Brahmos-1 its still more effective than anything China can throw at us. Also the LR-SAM/MR-SAM will be ready by then and since the LR-SAM is being designed to compete with the 160km SM-2 interceptors it will be gr8 defense system. Given AEGIS, we'll go for the SM-3 which can hit targets as far away as 500km, so slowly you'll see India gain lot of ground over china.
 

venom

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Dont worry as we speak the IN is evaluating the AEGIS system too and the P-17A will in most probability feature SM-2/3 interceptors which will render all of Chinese and Paki medium range ballistic missiles useless against India. P-17 will be deadlier than all Chinese ships simply because it could even carry The Brahmos-2 Hypersonic cruise missile which will be ready by 2012, well in time to be fitted on the P-17A, even with the simple Brahmos-1 its still more effective than anything China can throw at us. Also the LR-SAM/MR-SAM will be ready by then and since the LR-SAM is being designed to compete with the 160km SM-2 interceptors it will be gr8 defense system. Given AEGIS, we'll go for the SM-3 which can hit targets as far away as 500km, so slowly you'll see India gain lot of ground over china.
India cannot purchase SM-3 as it range is about 450-500 kms which is well beyond the permitted 300 kms under MRTC...
 

Daredevil

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Project 17-A: All seven new stealth frigates to be built in India

Project 17-A: All seven new stealth frigates to be built in India


(Photos: courtesy Ajai Shukla)
The INS Sahyadri, a Project 17 stealth frigate for the Indian Navy, nearing completion at Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai)

By Ajai Shukla
Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE), Kolkata
Business Standard, 27th July 09



India’s largest warship builders --- Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL), Mumbai; and Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE), Kolkata --- have prevailed over the Indian Navy’s objections. Business Standard has learned that MDL and GRSE will divide between them the entire order for seven improved stealth frigates, code-named Project 17A.

The navy was insisting that the first two frigates of Project 17A be built abroad so that MDL and GRSE could learn how to build ships using new modular methods that are preferred by European shipyards. This would have raised the price of Project 17A by more than Rs 5000 crores.

MDL and GRSE countered that they possessed the technology and the experience for building cutting-edge warships entirely in India.

Each Shivalik class frigate of Project 17 was priced at Rs 2600 crores, and the navy plans to insist on the same price for Project 17A. Building abroad would cost at least twice as much as building at MDL and GRSE.

But the navy was focusing on early delivery, rather than cost. Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Sureesh Mehta, insisted on presenting before the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), the highest decision-making body in the Ministry of Defence (MoD), the advantages of kicking off Project 17A in a foreign shipyard. But Defence Minister AK Antony stepped in to order entirely indigenous production.

At GRSE, a modernisation programme is underway to create the facilities needed for building Project 17A. The Chairman and Managing Director (CMD), Rear Admiral KC Sekhar, says a fully equipped modular yard with a 250-ton Goliath crane will be ready in mid-2011. By then, MoD sanctions will be in place and the navy would have completed the design of Project 17B.

Explaining the time-line, Admiral Sekhar said, “The MoD has informally told us that MDL and GRSE will build Project 17A; we are awaiting [formal sanction]. Once the navy finalises the size and design of the new frigate, we will decide our build strategy and costing. Then, hopefully, by the end of 2009, the MoD will issue a Request for Proposals (RfP); GRSE and MDL will submit separate quotes; and then the MoD will place a formal order on the shipyards. Construction should start by end-2011.”

This is the first time that India’s two major defence shipyards are sharing one project between them. And while MDL and GRSE are bidding separately, they are working in close consultation.

Admiral Sekhar points out that both shipyards have a common aim: to construct this largest-ever order of seven frigates without any delays. He explains, “We will have a common design for all seven ships of Project 17A. MDL can be the lead shipyard since they have more experience in building bigger ships. They can start work on the first frigate; after six months, we will start work on the second one.”

While MDL takes the lead in construction, GRSE will lead the design effort. A month ago, three companies --- GRSE; French shipbuilder, DCNS; and Kolkata-based IT engineering company, Vision Comptech --- formed a joint venture (JV) to design marine products, including warships, for customers globally. This JV is expected to work with the navy’s Directorate General of Naval Design (DGND) on the design for Project 17A.

If all goes well, say the shipyards, the first Project 17A frigates should be delivered to the Indian Navy by 2016-17.
 

Tamil

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we need bigger dock to build bigger and quicker ships.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Will Project 17B designed in India or will it be imported?
 

Yusuf

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I have gathered that it will be designed in India by Indian navys design beareu.
 

hit&run

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does its shape look stealthy?:rolleyes:
 

natarajan

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Its unfortunate as we cant achieve 125 ships mark in 2020
and also it will take 2020 to complete all this 7 ships sorry 2030
 

threadbrowser

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Alas I dont think they will match up to western designs in terms of stealth or performance. After all it is the first time they are trying this. It would have been better to do it the navy's way, let the europeans build us a couple, study the methods and techniques and then go for our own.
 

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Could you please elaborate what is Project 17B, since I have no idea about it and neither did I find anything on the net.

Thanks!!!
Project 17B will be the construction of next series of more advanced and a different class of frigates whose designing is being done by Navy. It will be started soon some time in future, may be 5yrs down the lane. Not much available on the net on this.
 

Yusuf

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Alas I dont think they will match up to western designs in terms of stealth or performance. After all it is the first time they are trying this. It would have been better to do it the navy's way, let the europeans build us a couple, study the methods and techniques and then go for our own.
Shivalik class, Talwar class are all stealth. Infact India has managed to stealth the shivalik which is double the sizebof La Fayette.
Indian navy stealth design is right up there. Stealth doesn't mean just some fancy looking ship.
 

Yusuf

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Its unfortunate as we cant achieve 125 ships mark in 2020
and also it will take 2020 to complete all this 7 ships sorry 2030

120 ship target is for all classes of combatants including destroyers, frigates, corvettes, carriers, submarines, amphibious ships, tankers etc. It will be done.
 
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Talwar class ship are not completely stealth, they have a huge infra-red signature.
Dark sorrow anything that gives of heat will have this signature, so it could be said that there is no such thing as a stealth frigate??
 

threadbrowser

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Well we civvies will never know, but i somehow doubt that our Krivak 3 derived designs can match up to the saschens lafayattes and type 45s of this world. (yes i know that they are air defence vessels but all incorporate plenty of stealthy features)
After all we are only getting what various nations around the world are willing to sell us, surely they will hold back the best goodies for themselves.
 

natarajan

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120 ship target is for all classes of combatants including destroyers, frigates, corvettes, carriers, submarines, amphibious ships, tankers etc. It will be done.
it is possilbe but tough and also seeing the time taken for shivalik class(3) indicates 7 frigates will take atleast more than 15 years:sad:
 

megatron

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how long does it take to build one ship in "modular construction"? is it diff from what we are doing already?
 

Daredevil

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how long does it take to build one ship in "modular construction"? is it diff from what we are doing already?
In modular construction, you build pieces of the ship separately and then assemble them together to construct the final ship. This approach, it seems, take less time than the conventional way of ship building. Till now India is following conventional ship building and is trying to move to modular construction of ships.

Here are some details on modular building (not about ships though)

Modular building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Dark Sorrow

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Project 15 and Project 17 news and discussion

I am creating this new thread to have a centralized location for discussion regarding Project 15(Both Alpha and Beta) and Project 17 (Both Alpha and Beta).
 

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