Prince Rurik's real ancestry

jouni

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Re: 50 per cent of Britons are GERMAN

Catherine the Great was the worst person of Russia. She is the reason I started disliking Russia. How could a woman be so vile and cold blooded? However the Russians seem to worship her as a national heroine.
Yeah, thats Russia alright, the more you punish them, the more they love you.
 

jouni

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According to the FamilyTreeDNA Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, Rurik appears to have belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, based on testing of his modern male line descendants. [5] Contrary to the Norman theory of the origin of the Kievan Rus' state, N1c1 is not widely found in Scandinavian countries, but is overwhelmingly found among Baltic and Finnish ethnicities. The N1c1 haplotype possess the distinctive value DYS390=23, also rarely found in Scandinavia, but with the closest relatives of the Rurikid haplotype being found in coastal Finland, among the Swedish-speaking Finns.
 

Peter

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According to the FamilyTreeDNA Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, Rurik appears to have belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, based on testing of his modern male line descendants. [5] Contrary to the Norman theory of the origin of the Kievan Rus' state, N1c1 is not widely found in Scandinavian countries, but is overwhelmingly found among Baltic and Finnish ethnicities. The N1c1 haplotype possess the distinctive value DYS390=23, also rarely found in Scandinavia, but with the closest relatives of the Rurikid haplotype being found in coastal Finland, among the Swedish-speaking Finns.
Give the source. It is from wikipedia btw,

Rurik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to the FamilyTreeDNA Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, Rurik appears to have belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, based on testing of his modern male line descendants.[5] Contrary to the Norman theory of the origin of the Kievan Rus' state, N1c1 is not widely found in Scandinavian countries, but is overwhelmingly found among Baltic and Finnish ethnicities. The N1c1 haplotype possess the distinctive value DYS390=23, also rarely found in Scandinavia, but with the closest relatives of the Rurikid haplotype being found in coastal Finland, among the Swedish-speaking Finns.
 

jouni

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@Razor, @pmaitra

Do you know the history of Calcutta? In Finnish "kolkata" means "to hit somebody in the head with a wooden club". Is it possible that Rurik's Finns got so far? Even further than Alexander the Great. That's awesome and is gonna change the relationship between our countries!
 
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pmaitra

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The "Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project" of FamilyTreeDNA commercial genetic genealogy company reports that Y-DNA testing of the descendants of Rurikids suggests their non-Slavic origin.

The project began in 2006 when practically no one knew from whom and from where the Rurikid princes came from. It was also unclear whether the Rurikid princes were descended from a single male. The Russian Newsweek Magazine tested the first prince (Professor Dmitri Shahovskoy of France) who was found to belong to the N1c1 genetic haplogroup. The Russian Newsweek had later confirmed his result by testing two other princes, namely Prince Andrei Gagarin of Russia and Prince Nikita Lobanov-Rostovsky of Great Britain. Many new tests have been performed in this project. Although some of the princes do not share the N1c1 hapologroup, by all means we can now say that the N1c1 haplogroup was shared at least by Prince Svatoslav Igorevich (father of St. Vladimir the Great of Kiev, and the grandson of Rurik). All of the N1c1 Rurikid princes' haploptypes begin with (the FTDNA's standard) 14 23 14 11 11 13 11 12 10 x 14 x 18 9 9 "¦ .
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/rurikid/default.aspx
From the same link, and w.r.t the emboldened part, and the question of Prince Rurik's real ancestry:
Unexpectedly, he was found to belong to the genetic haplogroup N1c1 – the so-called "Finno-Ugrian". Later, however, it was discovered that the N1c1 Rurikid princes belong to the so-called "Varangian Branch" in this haplogroup. This branch is one that is quite different from the present population of Finland (which is the "Finno-Karelian Branch").
The haplogroup in question is N1c1.


Rurik was indeed a Finnish prince.
No, he wasn't.

Already in the Russian Empress Catherine the Great (1729-1796) commissioned reviews of Russia's early history and the Novgorod City State came to the conclusion that Novgorod was founded by Slavic tribes and fiinish tribes cooperation. The thesis was published in German as a book in 1786. The founder of the city of Novgorod refers to the prince Rurik. Rurikin nationality has been fighting for hundreds of years, almost all European nationalities who can possibly have tried to prove Rurikin to be from the root of their people. Only the Finns have been mostly silent, even though the Rurik had been living in Sweden Finnish.

When the city of Novgorod Rurikin fortress began in the 1950s, archaeological excavation, was found from the use of a lot of broken objects, from or manufactured in Finland!

European archaeologists within the matter was dealt with at the time thoroughly, but Finland, to a large extent the Swedish-owned, pro-swedish mass media, the information has not ended up all the common people to read the last sixty years.

Later, in the 2000s, began Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, the purpose of which was to finally find out Rurikin nationality. Number of Russian Rurik princes was modern DNA testing, which the Rurikin haplo-group was N1C1, which in turn means the Finno-Ugric heritage.

DNA mapping, yet refined Rurikin ancestors were found in the island of Adelson, Roselag a, that is, in central Sweden on the coast, where wound the remains of the ancient .viking settlement.

Rurik did not have Swedish roots as 800 in the mid to Rurik went to Novgorod region. Sweden, has not even been founded. The name "Svealand" appears on old maps until the 1400s.

The Swedes are initially goths, the origin of which dates back to the present North German region, and before that the territory of eastern Ukraine.

Sweden has entered the Roman maps of the Goths-term residential area. names Götanmaaja Gothenburg, ie the land and the Goths Goths Castle.

But the whole of Scandinavia and northern Russia Roman maps marked with the Finnish tribes residential areas!

The Goths conquered the southern tip of the current SWEDEN 400-500-600 centuries and remained for hundreds of years , the current Skåne county, which spread a little later in the north.

So what happened to the current Skåne County jaGötanmaa-Counties, on the north side?

The Goths began to the southern tip spread towardsf the north ONLY FROM 1400-1500 centuries, while the Rurik sailed supporters Rusin Earth in 800 century.

The conclusion is that Rosenlagen was 800's strong Finnish tribal area. The area was also the Kainuu of the Kingdom of forest hunters. Kainuu Land Fjornjotrien led to the ancient royal house. Fjornjotrien Norwegian-Icelandic family sagas written in the title was "The country Finland and Kainuu Earth King". Kainuu to the Kingdom's family work -Kainuu, that the rest of the Finno-Scandinavia and Southern Finland, the tribal king of the municipalities.

The past thousand years the prince of the families in Russia have their own various family history of passing stories and have compared them to found scandinavian sagas the king of the genera. Rurikin father revealed their own investigations result in a half thousand years ago: Rurikin father was King Olav I Björnsson (Olavi I, the Son of the Bear).

The king of the home country is mentioned Kvenland, which means Land of Kainuu.

Rurikin father was, therefore, , a full-blooded royal!

Rurikin legend has proven modern DNA technology through the right. Hundreds of years old own family reports Rurikin backgrounds have been found to be true.

Kainuu The Kingdom has been in existence in some form vielä1100 century.

Proof of that Arab historian Al Idrisi writing in 1154 the Atlas of the World, "the king of Kainuu is a fief in Finnmark," that is, the current in the northern parts of Norway.

The Finns are, therefore, once inhabited the whole of Sweden, at the southernmost region of Sweden all the way down. In fact, the Finnish tribes have settled in at the time the Scandinavian regions. The earliest written record Kven in Norway northern fjords settlements can be found in vuodelta330 BC.

The Swedes do not accept Ruriks finnish history, but deny it, saying: "The Finns had no civilization before the Swedes."

The vast majority of our country's academic approved by the Finnish kings as a historical fact, but no one is not only openly campaigned in favor of it.

Would this be the time to correct this distortion of history, ancient history and the Finnish withholding ?
Your post has no source, and assuming you will provide it later, I just want to bring to your notice that genes flow from parents to offsrping, and not the other way around.


  • I don't care whether several Rurikid princes had some genetic links with the Finnic tribes and/or the Finno-Ugric tribes.
  • I care about evidence that Prince Rurik was, at least partially, descended, from the Finnic or Finno-Ugric tribes.


Ruriks haplogroup. Finns are worried about current crisis. We do not want Putin to destroy what we founded over 1000 years ago.
Just know that you Finns did not found Russia 1000 years ago. However, you can be worried as much as you want.

According to the FamilyTreeDNA Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, Rurik appears to have belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, based on testing of his modern male line descendants. [5] Contrary to the Norman theory of the origin of the Kievan Rus' state, N1c1 is not widely found in Scandinavian countries, but is overwhelmingly found among Baltic and Finnish ethnicities. The N1c1 haplotype possess the distinctive value DYS390=23, also rarely found in Scandinavia, but with the closest relatives of the Rurikid haplotype being found in coastal Finland, among the Swedish-speaking Finns.

That N1c1 haplotype has been found to belong to the Varangian branch and is very different from the Finno-Karelian branch, that value DYS390=23 notwithstanding.

@Razor, @pmaitra

Do you know the history of Calcutta? In Finnish "kolkata" means "to hit somebody in the head with a wooden club". Is it possible that Rurik's Finns got so far? Even further than Alexander the Great. That's awesome and is gonna change the relationship between our countries!
The Finnic and Finno-Ugric tribes couldn't have traveled as far as India for various reasons.
  • They were constantly feuding with other tribes south of the original Finn-land (which is predominantly inside present day Russian Federation and not predominantly in present day Finland). They couldn't have traversed any far south without being destroyed by enemy tribes.
  • The Finnic and Finno-Ugric tribes couldn't even cross the Gulf of Bothnia into Viking-land, now called Sweden. How could they have crossed thousands of miles into India?


Here you go, Kolkata to you: :clobber:


@Razor, perhaps you can help our friend @jouni distinguish between "Prince Rurik" and the "Rurikid Princes." Surely, we don't want him to go down the way our Pakistani brethren have, who like to liken themselves to their conquerors, aka the Persians, and some even go to the extent of calling themselves Arabs. :lol:
 
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Razor

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@Razor, perhaps you can help our friend @jouni distinguish between "Prince Rurik" and the "Rurikid Princes." Surely, we don't want him to go down the way our Pakistani brethren have, who like to liken themselves to their conquerors, aka the Persians, and some even go to the extent of calling themselves Arabs. :lol:
Sir, unfortunately I'm not a doctor to help Jouni with his delusions :lol:

In any case, it's pretty clear to me that Rurik was a Scandinavian and not a Finn, already posted the stuff relating to that.
Didn't read the last few post on this thread, will do it when I'm kinda free, I guess.

Also with that Kolkata relation. Well a casual look at the etymology of that Bengali city, lets us know that he is either trying some hilarious taunt or he really is quite dense.
 
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pmaitra

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It is easy to get confused. Many historians themselves are confused, and rely on local nomenclature, without understanding the meaning of the nomenclature. Ideally, the "Russian Federation" should be called the "Slavonic Federation."

The historical account from the source you presented has some inherent errors, partially due to lack of understanding or confusion on part of the author.

 
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jouni

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This proof that Finns founded Russia is now so comprehensive, that it must be because of foreign policy reasons, that Finnish government is not actively promoting it. Current crisis in Ukraine is largely based on Russians low self-esteem, they have to look for the "great" past and ignore the fact that they are still lacking in most areas compared to other countries. In fact recent study shows that Russia is the worst country in Europe:http://media.prosperity.com/2014/pdf/publications/PI2014Brochure_WEB.pdf

It shows quite good statesmanship from Finns, not to add to the desperation of Russia. It is the same kind of statesmanship Rurik showed over thousand years ago. Greatest thing about him is that he was wise enough to keep Finns in the Finnish peninsula and let the Slavs and others fight in the vast vistas of Russia. Russia was in a bad state then and Russia is in a bad state now. Finland was progressive then ruling the whole Scandinavia, what else can you expect from a country with highest IQ of Europe.

 

Ray

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Thanks everyone, I am learning quite a lot about Finland and Russia that I did not know before.

This thread is a treasure of information and knowledge.

Good work.

Thanks again.
 
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jouni

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Vuonna 6367 (859) merentakaiset varjagit perivät veroja tsuudeilta, slaaveilta, merjalaisilta ja kaikilta krivitsheiltä. Mutta hasaarit perivät veroja poljaaneilta, severjaaneilta sekä vjatisheilta hopearahan ja oravan savua kohti.

Vuonna 6370 (862) varjagit ajettiin meren taakse, eikä niille annettu veroa, vaan alkoivat hallita itse itseään, mutta niiden keskuudessa ei ollut oikeutta, ja sukukunta nousi sukukuntaa vastaan, niin että sisällissota syttyi, ja ne alkoivat sotia keskenään. Niin lausuivat he toisilleen: "Etsikäämme itsellemme ruhtinas meitä hallitsemaan ja oikein tuomitsemaan. Ja niin lähdettiin meren yli varjagien, rusien, luo. Niitä varjageja sanottiin ruseiksi, kun toisia kutsutaan svealaisiksi, toisia taas normanneiksi, angleiksi, ja vielä yksiä gotlantilaisiksi, niin näin myös näitä nimitettiin. Tsuudit, sloveenit ja krivitshit ja vepsäläiset sanoivat ruseille: Meidän maamme on suuri ja rikas, mutta siellä ei ole järjestystä. Tulkaa ja ryhtykää johtamaan ja hallitsemaan meitä! Valituksi tuli kolme veljestä sukuineen, ja nämä ottivat kaikki rusit mukaansa ja tulivat. Vanhin, Rurik, asettui Novgorodiin, toinen, Sineus, asettui Valgetjärvelle ja kolmas, Truvor, Izborskiin. Ja näistä varjageista sai nimensä sai nimensä Rusin maa. Ja novgorodilaiset, ne ovat varjagien sukukuntaa, mutta aikaisemmin ne olivat slaaveja.

"rurik" and "rus" come from Rosland, the name of the city in nowadays Sweden, then inhabited by finns. Rurik was a finn.

Rusien viikinkiaika
 

jouni

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http://jarmo10.org/suomivu.pdf

Finnish King also founded Norway ( page 30 ).

KING OF FINLAND AND NORWAY
FOUNDING NORR THORRINPOIKA FORNJOTR
NORR THORRINPOIKA KING OF FINLAND p. 345 AD, Finnish Kainuu, married QUEEN
SEARSCHDOTTERIN with s 354 AD, the current Trondelag Norway .
KING NORR ruled northern parts of Finland AND RUIJAA UP UNTIL 368 AD .
" FINLAND NORWAY 369 AD FROM " .
PAGE 31
 

jouni

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Also Royal family of England is the blood of Finnish King ( page 43 ). Pretty interesting, you can blame us for all the problems they caused in India ;)

Väitetään Suomen kuninkaista, joista ei saanut puhua, eikä kouluissa saanut heidän
olemassa olostaan opettaa. KUITENKIN TOTUUS ON, ETTÄ VANHIMMASTA SUOMEN
FORNJOTR KUNINGASSUVUISTA ON PERIYTYNYT MONIEN MAIDEN KUNINKAAT. KUTEN;
NORJA, ISLANTI, SKOTLANTI, ENGLANTI, RUOTSI JA TANSKA.
 

jouni

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In the year 829 AD a Christianity-professing German bishop Ansgar arrived to the market town with his
entourage. He travelled there with Viking king and king Harold Klak Halfdansson. Harold's birth year
was 795 AD, and he died in Walcheran of Netherlands in the year 844 AD. Klak was also closely related
to king RURIK HALFDANSSON. From the island of Birka Christianity spread to other places in
Scandinavia, as in Finland. South-west Finland belonged really for a long time to Birka's area of
influence, also commercially. Many Finns and families of Vikings were living on the shores of today's
Sweden.

Finns lived in Sweden Roslagen area at that time page 55

http://jarmo10.org/suomivuonnatuhat.pdf ( this is in english history of Finnish Viking Kings )
 

pmaitra

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@jouni, my good Sir, yes, I get it, that all the world came from Finland. Finland is the cradle of human civilization. It is everything, omnipresent, and sublime. We commoners can barely fathom the greatness of Finland.
 
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jouni

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@jouni, my good Sir, yes, I get it, that all the world came from Finland. Finland is the cradle of human civilization. It is everything, omnipresent, and sublime. We commoners can barely fathom the greatness of Finland.
Maybe you can ask your relatives living in Russia to visit us. Then they can tell you how great the experience really is. Also the lion in England's coat of arms is originally from Finland ( last page). Don't worry we are peace loving and dark winter is starting so no appetite for new conquers, well maybe in cyber space.
 
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pmaitra

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Maybe you can ask your relatives living in Russia to visit us. Then they can tell you how great the experience really is. Also the lion in England's coat of arms is originally from Finland ( last page). Don't worry we are peace loving and dark winter is starting so no appetite for new conquers, well maybe in cyber space.
I worry about being a victim of human sacrifice. ;)
 

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