Poverty decline rate doubled during UPA regime

Mad Indian

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GDP Growth(Real)
1999 2000 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
India 5.5 6 4.3 8.3 6.2 8.4 9.2 9 7.4 7.4 10.4 9.2
Source:IMF Website
Indian economy did much better during UPA.
:lol: Thats because ,most of the foundations are put on by the BJP:dude:. The reason we are not growing well is because UPA failed to invest in the fundamentals when they came to power and wasted it on the useless subsidies. The thing is, you will see the effect of the economic policies only after 3-5yrs of rule minimum. Look at the growth rates and you will see this pattern everywhere:dude:

Dont comment without understanding the stats, please:sad:
 
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Yusuf

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I dont think you understand the difference between employment generation and Stupid, useless welfare scheme:dude:




:facepalm: Read What i posted fully- This is not the first time you are supporting UPA for its non - sense aka, stupid economic policy(or be it any policy:notsure:)
Problem is, everything is stupid for you.
 

Yusuf

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:facepalm: Rs.28= $.50. The Indian GDP in PPP is 4Tn$ while in Nominal it is ~2Tn$, hence Rs. 28 translates to ~1.2$ at the max not 2$.. :dude:
Yes Rs.28 is about $1.25 which is the level of absolute poverty as per UN.

That is why I put out the NREGA which offered Rs.120 which is $5.5. What above poverty levels. The implementation is a problem.

One of the reasons given for food inflation in India is NREGA as it afforded a lot more people more food.
 

Mad Indian

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Ok, Yusuf and Ejazr, before you start defending the MNREG, let me tell you some thing, the prices are controlled by the Supply and Demand. Now the actual increase in GDP is measured by the increase in the production(aka supply) not by increase in demand(which leads to inflation).



Let me tell you an example-

Now lets take that there are 100 citizens in the a city. It has 10 cars. Now the car is in demand among the 100 citizens and the demand sets the price at Rs. .1 Lakh. OK? Now lets suppose only 10 members of the city have that money and they will buy it. Then this stupid govt like UPA steps in to remove the disparity to make the citizens able to afford the car. Now The govt pays Rs. 1Lakh for the citizens:bounce:. Now everyone will have Rs. 1 Lakh. And the no. of Cars are just 10 hence every one will afford it and hence the demand will push the car price to 2 Lakh Rs., and once again only those ten members will be able to afford it(again;)). But the people will have more money but its value is useless as it is only a product of inflation and not actual growth.

So the actual way of making the people afford the car is to make 100 cars- .ie increase the production, which will bring down the price and will contribute to the actual economy.

I hope you got the message

Any who, this is what UPA is doing with its subsidies- triggering Inflation without actually increasing the production- leading to increase in the Nominal economy while no increase in real economy. Or else Simply put it is a simple hog wash.

Still any supporters for MNREG:frusty:?
 

Mad Indian

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Yes Rs.28 is about $1.25 which is the level of absolute poverty as per UN.

That is why I put out the NREGA which offered Rs.120 which is $5.5. What above poverty levels. The implementation is a problem.

One of the reasons given for food inflation in India is NREGA as it afforded a lot more people more food.
Read my post above. That useless scheme did nothing to increase the Productivity of the country but it increased the inflation:mad:

Also, its about time we pushed the poverty line to 2$, PPP, which is just ~110Rs. per day per head
 
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VIP

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Like is said before, poverty can mean different status in different countries."¨"¨In the west it can be someone who cannot afford medical insurance."¨"¨In Indian context also we can have separate definitions."¨One is based on PPP of $1.25 absolute poverty and $2.00 poverty."¨"¨Poverty can also be defined on the calorie intake per day. "¨"¨At the end of the day poverty alleviation in India does not mean that people who didn't have food to eat are living in high rise apartment but about those who didnt have 3 meals a day, earning enough money to eat three times.
"¨"¨"©Yeah, right but the definition of poverty in India is laughable.
 

ajay_ijn

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Rather than suffering from Hunger, Poor people would like to better receive money directly from Govt either its NREGA or some other krap. Its a vote bank tactic. NREGA created shortage of labour in urban and rural areas. But if it Poor are able eat because of it, it does make sense.NREGA is for such people who are struggling to have 3 meals a day.

and your defending of mnreg is defendig the UPA at its worst policy. and this is not the first time you hve defended their stupid policy.
Its not entirely krap. The biggest flaw of NREGA is the projects that are being taken up. They are simply useless and don't provide any value to the society.
If projects in NREGA are able to give some economic boost then it will be great.


Let me tell you an example-

Now lets take that there are 100 citizens in the a city. It has 10 cars. Now the car is in demand among the 100 citizens and the demand sets the price at .1 Lakh. OK? Now lets suppose only 10 members of the city have that money and they will buy it. Then this stupid govt like UPA steps in to remove the disparity to make the citizens able to afford the car. Now The govt pays 1Lakh for the citizens. Now everyone will have 1 Lakh. And the no. of Cars are just 10 hence every one will afford it and hence the demand will push the car price to 2 Lakh , and once again only those ten members will be able to afford it(again). But the people will have more money but its value is useless as it is only a product of inflation and not actual growth.

So the actual way of making the people afford the car is to make 100 cars- .ie increase the production, which will bring down the price and will contribute to the actual economy.

I hope you got the message

Any who, this is what UPA is doing with its subsidies- triggering Inflation without actually increasing the production- leading to increase in the Nominal economy while no increase in real economy. Or else Simply put it is a simple hog wash.
Still any supporters for MNREG?
UPA is not providing Cars to everyone
MNERGA pays 100 to 200 per day to every individual.
if they are able to eat well, meet their basic needs, then purpose is served. there is no economic output from the activity, but that is a different matter.

Its a crime if Govt fails to provide enough food to all people in country, There is absolutely nothing wrong in Subsidizing food & basic needs. Look at the nutrition levels of poor, infant-mortality rate. Every country provides subsidies to support some weak segments of their society.

blaming this as reason to inflation is like blaming the poor for leading their lives decently, without dying of hunger.

Its utter failure on the part of market & govt if there is food inflation because of supply side constraints- you can blame Govt Public Distribution, Blame the Hoarding, Speculation.

If food prices have rised because poor are eating well then its a shame on our country.

In my entire post, i have concentrated only on food because at Rs 130 per day (minimum wage of NREGA), you can hardly provide anything more than food to a household.

policy, program itself are not that much flawed in our nation, its the implementation thats almost always flawed, the corruption etc.
 
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Yusuf

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"¨"¨"©Yeah, right but the definition of poverty in India is laughable.
When you had people going hungry for days on end, getting 2 meals a day every day is a good start.

What should be the definition of poverty in India? Earning 10,000 a month?
 

ejazr

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@Mad Indian

Please leave your bias aside and "READ" what I posted above you. Why should I even defend NREGA when I don't support it. Me and Yusuf disagree on how helpful NREGA on the basis of merits. But you seem to be jumping to conclusions based on your prejudice that I support NREGA, which is not true

Also, I don't understand what you think about the poverty line estimate by the planning commission. If you support centre-right economic policies as you "claim", you should be "supporting" their point of view. Your demand that it should be raised to Rs 100 is a LEFTIST/ POPULIST point of view because you are not looking the market realities of purchase parity and economics on what the poverty line is about. Understand this instead of just labeling things as right and left.

Again, according to the Economic Survey of 2011, Purchasing power parity of INR. Rs15.5 = $1 USD. This is from the Economic Survey of India and not from thin air. IF you wanted to raise it to $2 per day, then according to PPP it would be around Rs 30 per day which not far from the Rs28 per day poverty line by the Tendulkar committee at 2009-2010 prices. Most people don't realize that the Tendulkar committee actually RAISED the poverty line substantially from what it officially was from the 1980s based around calorie intakes and approximately 14-15 Rs or $1 per day PPP till now.
(Myths about poverty lines - Times Of India )

If you look at all the pro-Bussiness journals in India, all of them supported the poverty line estimates. Read the article I posted earlier from Livemint which is a Wall Street Journal subsidiary.

Here is another from Forbes India
India's Poverty Estimates: Don't just get Outraged, Understand them! | Forbes India Blog

And a pretty example to help you understand why proper poverty lines matter
Forbes India Magazine - Poverty Line: Dialogue Of The Deaf
 
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Yusuf

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Ejaz,

I support the thought of providing jobs to rural folk. Give it any other name as make it better than NREGA.

Creating jobs is part of government responsibility. Like I said, NREGA is offering $5.5 in PPP terms which surely affords the rural poor better life from the absolute poor earning $1.25.

The implementation of NREGA and the work done can all be suspect. But that is another part of the story. Main thing is a lot more people are earning enough to get at least 2 meals a day every day if not 3.
 

Ray

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I am afraid Montek is speaking rubbish.

His statistics is flawed and contrived.

There is NO Poverty. I say so.

The BPL, for urban and rural area someone told me is, :inr: 0.

If that is correct, then where is the poverty?
 

Ray

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Your demand that it should be raised to Rs 100 is a LEFTIST/ POPULIST point of view because you are not looking the market realities of purchase parity and economics on what the poverty line is about.
How do you calculate poverty?

Try living in Mumbai with :inr: 100.

That will give you the power to discern real market realities.

In Kolkata, there are many office workers, you make to with jhal muri (spicy puffed rice) for lunch. Now, that is not because they want to eat just that. It is because it is how they can make ends meet and they are not the BPL variety either.

They thus ensure they exist to see the next day.

But it gives rise to another alarming situation that hogs the international headlines and leads to being called worse than sub Sahara - malnutrition and that is conveniently tagged on to the catch phrase 'poverty and hunger'!

Let us look at ground realities.

Calorie intake is not the be all and end all of poverty. An unhealthy diet may suit the calorie intake statistics, but then it also leads to sickness, malnutrition and no money out of that :inr: 30 to pay the doctor, let alone buy the medicine!
 
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Yusuf

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How do you calculate poverty?

Try living in Mumbai with :inr: 100.

That will give you the power to discern real market realities.
Sir that is why there is a concept of urban poor and rural poor. Different yardstick is there.
 

ejazr

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@Ray Sir,

please go through the articles I posted earlier from Live Mint and Forbes India and the Times of India article. They will be well worth you time if you are interested in this.
here http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...e-doubled-during-upa-regime-2.html#post466103
and
here http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...e-doubled-during-upa-regime-2.html#post466828

They will explain much better than I can. In short, I would say that the World bank poverty line is $1.25 per day, but that doesn't mean you will be able to comfortably live on that amount. Only that that is the destitution line.
Similarly, the poverty line is per person per day in India. For a family of 5, that is about 4200-4500 Rs per month, which is not enough to live comfortably, but enough for a household to survive.

In hospitals you have a system call triage where you identify life threatening emergency patients, critical patients and serious patients so that they can be treated accordingly. That is what poverty lines should be used for. If hospitals start treating all emergency, critical and serious patients the same, then it would be the emergency patients who will suffer who really need the special attention.
 
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Poseidon

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:facepalm: Rs.28= $.50. The Indian GDP in PPP is 4Tn$ while in Nominal it is ~2Tn$, hence Rs. 28 translates to ~1.2$ at the max not 2$.. :dude:
:facepalm:
Rupee is now udervalued by 65%.
:lol: Thats because ,most of the foundations are put on by the BJP:dude:. The reason we are not growing well is because UPA failed to invest in the fundamentals when they came to power and wasted it on the useless subsidies. The thing is, you will see the effect of the economic policies only after 3-5yrs of rule minimum. Look at the growth rates and you will see this pattern everywhere:dude:

Dont comment without understanding the stats, please
The truth is our economy has performed much better during UPA,even 7% growth is better than all of BJP years.
So I can't do anything if you are a blind man.
 

Ray

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Sir that is why there is a concept of urban poor and rural poor. Different yardstick is there.
Why?

Do rural poor lives on love and fresh air?

The Planning Commission are such ticks that they will use any sample to prove their point.

They will use the Bohra Community Kitchen as a sample and say no one is poor in the urban area!
 
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Ray

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The truth is our economy has performed much better during UPA,even 7% growth is better than all of BJP years.
So I can't do anything if you are a blind man.
What is the truth now?

I don't care about BJP or Congress.

I care what is happening to many like me!

I can't eat and subsist on fool statistics!
 

VIP

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When you had people going hungry for days on end, getting 2 meals a day every day is a good start."¨"¨What should be the definition of poverty in India? Earning 10,000 a month?
"¨"¨"©So, what Indian govt. is defining about poverty is right ?? They're saying about declination of poverty by using this definition.
 

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