Possibility: Direct Air Strikes inside Pakistan against terror camps

Discussion in 'Military Strategy' started by Indx TechStyle, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle War Mongerer Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Was just thinkin over while reading an article about ME Wars and coincidentally got an article from Indrastra.:)
    Thread includes the same points as that mentioned by SKU:
    Some important points to discuss:
    - Under what circumstances and when should India do it? Another Parliament type attack etc.
    - Would India be able to avert a full-blown war with Pak after such strikes?
    - What defence capabilities does India need for successfully carrying out such strikes? And is India ready for it?
    - Are surgical strikes a capable deterrent to terrorism related incidents?
    - Or instead of surgical strikes Indian artillery should keep pounding the Pak positions fornext month after a big terrorist attack?

    Air strikes are way different and aggressive way of retaliation against terror groups, will spark escalation most likely. India falls short of most capabilities and requirement over that.

    Would love to discuss the strategies, military build up and attempts India must make.
    @Bornubus @Chinmoy @Stealth Flanker @tejas warrior

    Off Topic:
    @Sakal Gharelu Ustad can now re introduce the surgical strikes thread into this forum. I think I can post some more topics here to discuss [or please move this thread to strategic issue section if there's not to post in this section.] Regards!
     
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  3. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle War Mongerer Veteran Member Senior Member

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    FEATURED | Air Campaign against Pakistan-sponsored Terror : A Perspective
    IndraStra Global Monday, December 05, 2016 Aerial Warfare , Air Defense , Air Force , Featured , India ,Indian Air Force , Kindle , News , Pakistan
    By Group Captain (Retd.) Murli Menon
    Indian Air Force
    [​IMG]
    Image Attribute: India Air Force's Su-30 MKI / Source: Union Ministry of Defence, Government of India
    With each terror attack on our soil by Pak-sponsored terror groups and the fits-and-starts reactions by our establishment, one wonders if we are gradually playing into Pakistan’s hands – they are managing to avoid a regular war and we are caught fighting the wrong kind of war against them. Irregular or “hybrid” warfare calls for a different kind of a counter by its victim. While our country has never believed in creating non-state actors to wage this kind of warfare, special forces elements of our armed forces are too few and precious to employ for routine counter-terror operations. They have to be kept in reserve for the priority tasks and important strategic operations. The present dispensation in New Delhi has apparently been more supportive to the Indian military in terms of giving it a “free hand”. But terror attacks continue unabated, surgical strike notwithstanding. What then is the solution for us to neutralize our adversary’s terror juggernaut?
    Airpower in counter-terror warfare
    There has been this bogey that the moment air power is employed in the India-Pak scenario, all-out war is inevitable. Kargil war showed otherwise , that this need not be the case. Of course, there in a conscious decision was taken to not operate across the Line of Control (LOC). We now need to evolve an appropriate air power response to Pakistan’s terror game by selective targeting of its jihadi infrastructure. The IAF needs to study this target system very carefully to determine its vulnerabilities, seeing it in the context of the adversary’s morphed warfighting doctrine. A new targeting matrix needs to be drawn up by us to prosecute the counter-terror air campaign in a graded fashion, supported of course by effective media management and psychological warfare to convey the requisite signals to Rawalpindi. Fear of inability to control the escalation appears to have kept us from utilizing IAF assets appropriately against Pak-based terror groups. The nation demands protection and the need of the hour are smart intelligent proactive air strategy rather than run of the mill military- bureaucratic rambles. This can only be overcome through tough political leadership ( ostensibly manifesting now) and an audacious military leadership. We need to draw up a “Terror Targeting Matrix” in such a manner as to factor in the modus operandi of the Pakistan Army-ISI-terrorist Tanzeem nexus . Needless to state good timely intelligence is vital for this.
    The Intelligence War
    India needs to reorientate its intelligence assets to obtain continuously updated intelligence on the activities and whereabouts of terrorist elements across the International Border (IB) and LOC. Terror leadership would need to be zeroed in on. Our space-based assets need to be exploited to obtain a continuous imagery of the critical territory. Signal intelligence assets should be optimized to triangulate targets effectively, spanning the entire spectrum of likely communications between the elements of terror if required through special forces insertion into enemy territory (as it was done by the Americans in Iraq circa 1991).This kind of real-time intelligence would, of course, be even more crucial for hard kill UAV operations, as and when that materializes, in the days to come when we have those assets.
    Once accurate intelligence is gathered and collated, air strikes could be launched to neutralize the specific terror targets in a standoff mode or conventional close-in weapon delivery mode. Attacking aircraft should be provided with built in and area air defense wherewithal to counter expected PAF reaction.Selective SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defence) would need to be done to obtain total control of the air domain and reduce own air attrition.
    How will Pakistan Air Force (PAF) react?
    Of course, the PAF will react to any IAF air strike. But then we need to plan for countering that too , as indeed we do in any war scenario. Optimal deployment of the Airborne early warning and control (AWACS)/ Airborne Early Warning (AEW) platforms and Aerostats would provide effective air defense cover to our strike elements, more so should they require to go in for close-in attacks. For standoff attacks area, air defense protection of a different order would call for, as the attacking aircraft would be mostly over our own territory. So whilst we would be targeting the adversary’s terrorist entities, what could the PAF target on our territory in retaliation? Clearly, they would go for military targets such as formation HQs or communication hubs. Any attempt to target civilian areas or strategic targets would perforce throw the onus of escalation on Pakistan. Our escalation strategy should thus be to focus on terror targeting, upping the ante once the adversary opts to widen his aerial targeting spectrum, ensuring failsafe air defense in the operational domain to preclude a walk through for the adversary.
    What precautions are needed from the Indian Air Force (IAF)?
    India’s situation is altogether different from that of the US in Afghanistan, Yemen or Iraq or the Israelis in their theaters of counter – terror air operations. Both US and Israel totally overwhelm their adversaries in operational capabilities and mostly their air strikes take place in a comparatively benign aerial threat scenario, with hardly any air defense called for except perhaps small arms or light anti-aircraft fire. In our scenario, we are going to encounter a full-fledged Air Force, with substantial capabilities across the operational spectra and that too one which is vainglorious enough ton consider itself more than equal to the challenge. The IAF would, therefore, need to prepare its ground carefully in terms of PAF reaction. Depending on the area of operations an effective air defence umbrella would need to be put in place, comprising AWACS, AEW and Aerostats for the airspace over own territory and beyond the IB/ LOC and a continuous maze of IAF ADGE assets in terms of radars, SAGW (Surface to Air Guided Weapons) and LLAD (Low Level Air Defence Guns). Needless to say Army/Naval radar, missiles and guns would need to be integrated where required to obtain seamless coverage.
    An air war tends to be more visible in terms of media exposure and enhanced likelihood of collateral damage. But the advantages of rapid attack, striking across the levels of war and flexibility of switching forces from one target area to another and the multirole capabilities of our modern assets such as the Su-30 and Mirage 2000 affords the IAF advantages that the PAF would not have in wherewithal and numbers. Another area of superiority for the IAF would be in a superior standoff weaponry. Selective counter air operations against PAF launch bases may also need to be called for to preclude interference in our operations.
    Orchestration of the Campaign
    From historical experiences of Col. Jim Warden’s “Black Hole” air tasking center during Gulf War-1 to our own experience duringOperation Safed Sagar in Kargil, the need for a dedicated battle staff to handle day to day air tasking and planning need not be overstated. Such a control center needs to be created in a suitable air base, central to the ones from where the air assets are to be launched. The intent should be to achieve "optimal timely tasking", to hit the enemy continuously when he is down. The beauty about air power is that it can be dramatically unleashed across tactical, operational and strategic spectra with effect, unlike the other two services. Of course, we may need to incorporate special forces operations on occasions either to confine collateral damage or executing snatch operations with regards to valuable targets such as Hafiz Syed, to aid in the prosecution of the air war subsequently.
    Attrition Aspects
    Traditionally in air campaigns, an attrition figure of 1% is considered reasonable. This is, of course, spread across the entire air campaign .. the numbers may well be higher in initial stages. It has been well established that survivability of aircrew increases exponentially as one continuously gets exposed to the operational threat environment. In an air campaign such as the one being discussed here, employment of attack helicopters, light transport aircraft and even some other modified trainer or crop duster aircraft and the like may be envisaged. It may be prudent to employ low-cost options in counter- terror air operations given their pay off in efficacy versus lethality. Assets such as drones and satellites would need to be integrated suitably.
    Killing Terror by "a Thousand Cuts"
    Our adversary, realizing that he cannot ever hope to engage India in a conventional military contest, has opted to adopt “hybrid” warfare, a low-cost option for him. The job of the army and political dispensation is mere to hype the nuclear threat and cry for international mediation. Our counter to his jihadi infrastructure has to encompass the entire gamut of madrasas, launchpad and leadership. Responsible ISI organizational headquarters need to be targeted too to send appropriate signals to Pak GHQ. Depending on the situation on the ground we may even opt to employ the“kill box” technique, choosing to neutralize any threat that approaches our vulnerable areas or points. Terror targeting would be a new challenge for the IAF, but something only it can prosecute effectively. It is India’s time for the reckoning. No timelines can be given as to how long it would take to neutralize terror absolutely, but act we must forthwith. Prevailing political leadership congeniality cannot be allowed to be squandered. The IAF leadership needs to measure up and project the correct air campaign options to the government. The nation expects the air warriors to deliver the substantial blow against Pakistan-sponsored terror.


    Copyright: Indrastra
     
  4. Bornubus

    Bornubus Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter Senior Member

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    The aim was of surgical strike (any) was to punish Pakis as a nation by humiliating them in front of the world raping their sovereignty, inflict casualties on Jihadis and Pak Army.


    It was never thought nor practical to end Jihadi network and infrastructure in surgical strikes. It delivered the message.
     
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  5. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle War Mongerer Veteran Member Senior Member

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    That's why air strikes.:)

    30 character rule rubbishes the mood while discussuing.
     
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  6. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    It is already in the forum you mentioned. So I did not get your point.
     
  7. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle War Mongerer Veteran Member Senior Member

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  8. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    That thread is broad in scope and is more about defence strategy. Let it be there.

    Your thread is more about how to do it. The other one is about the repercussions and way to avoid them etc.
     
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  9. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is a recipe to start a war to bomb somebody in enemy territory, only hot pursuit is excepted. If India had struck at Karachi within hours of 26/11 then it would be hot pursuit. Six months later bombing is recipe for war.

    The post Uri, surgical strike is acceptable as hot pursuit within days, that too from the bases from which the terrorists came. But bombing LET or Jaish headquarter although would teach a bigger lesson is not acceptable.

    Only acceptable reaction is to send your own terrorists to bomb their critical infrastructure places. In those cases denial is in-built. What has gone wrong in that arrangements is that in late nineties, India dismantled its own terror capability at the behest some Gandhian PMs and now its need is critically felt. That infrastructure cannot be built in a day. Some effort was made by COAS of 2011, but it was discovered and termed unauthorized and dismantled completely. This time you can blame AK Anthony for that.

    There is a lot of scope to build that infrastructure in Pakistan. Take for example, Bulochistan, POK, Sunni/Shia bombing and divide, Christian - Muslim divide and many more.

    All this will save you from starting a war at the critical terror strike in Kashmir. You can do your own and let them bleed with thousand cuts.
     
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  10. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    We have the capability of targeting terrorist camps and LeT/JeM HQs at Muridke and Bhawalpur by stand off missiles without entering Pakistani air space. Sat imagery can give us 8 figure grid references of targets, primarily their terror HQs.

    The system that could be used is the BrahMos-A which is a modified air-launched variant of the missile which will arm the Su-30MKI of the air force as a standoff weapon. Tests have already proved successful.

    Pak will think twice before a riposte as there are no such targets within Indian territory. They cannot afford to target our com centers and other military targets as that would result in massive escalation which Pakistan cannot afford at this juncture.

    All we need are for our politicians to grow some balls. But Modi may go where even angels fear to tread! He's shown he can when he ordered the surgical strike and hopefully do it again, but this time hit them where it hurts the most - Bhawalpur and Muridke!
     
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  11. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Prepare for war as it is sure to come before you strike at Murdike or Bahawalpur etc. Stock all ammunition, spare parts and land mines. Get all roads leading to the fighting area in tip top shape. Stock all military related food, petroleum products and bridges etc. In good shape. This war will last three weeks initially and continue for a while.

    Target for this war - all of POK and cities of Lahore, Bahawalpur and Multan.
     
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  12. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Like there was a thread on possibility on surgical strike in Pakistan, this is one more thread. Surgical strike happened and same way air strike may also happened. It is said that there are 150 to 120 influential families in pakistan who run the show. we need to specifically target them.
     
  13. indiazain

    indiazain Regular Member

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    We will start blowing up the porkies when we get systems like the S400 and the Rafale. I hope we get them soon before Pakies come up with any countermeasures vis-a-vis china.Even in case of a war they only have few worthy f16 ,rest all are crap just post world war2 aircraft.Once we have complete air dominance over them ,their navy is worthless and the Al Khalid tanks will be the most dangerous place on earth. Pokies can only dominate over the cave men on their territory that too using their f16 against the opponents donkeys. Our doctrine must be modified to massive retaliation even before pokies can think of their nukes.
     
  14. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually, i do not count Pakistani navy atall. Their one ship need one brahmos delivered from MKI. Their submarines are a matter of bit concern.
     
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  15. aditya10r

    aditya10r Mera Bharat mahan Senior Member

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    P8i's and scorpenes will take care of em.
    .....................................
     
  16. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes but we need to take care. Porkies too have AIP french subs which are a threat. Surface ships of porkies are just target practice.
     
  17. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    From simple defence mindset, its a possibility. But from strategic point of view, most unlikely.
     
  18. aditya10r

    aditya10r Mera Bharat mahan Senior Member

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    What can be done to keep the subs in check.................
     
  19. PD_Solo

    PD_Solo The only one

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    We have as follows for ASW:

    1) Project 28 are a class of ASW corvettes.The armament of the class includes a license-built OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun in a stealth mount ,torpedoes and depth charges.

    2) The P-8i conducts ASW along with ELINT role. P-8i is equipped with some of the most modern U.S. ASW technology including a Telephonics APS-143 OceanEye aft radar system and a cutting-edge magnetic anomaly detector. The aircraft is also armed with U.S. weapons systems including Harpoon Block-II missiles, MK-54 lightweight torpedoes, rockets, and Mark 82depth charges.

    3) Rotary platform as Kamov Ka-25, Kamov Ka-28, and the Kamov Ka-31.The Ka-25 was acquired by the Indian Navy in 1980 for anti-submarine warfare, but had severe technological limitations. The Ka-28s were acquired in the mid-80s, and were said to be a quantum leap over their predecessors from an ASW standpoint. The Ka-31 takes the Kamov capabilities even further by enabling real-time network-centric warfare for the Indian Navy.
     
  20. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    P8-i and sea based sonar detectors and surveillance by Sonar on chopper.
     
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  21. indiazain

    indiazain Regular Member

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    In addition the sheer presence of even an unarmed nuclear sub in their territorial waters is a nightmare for them .What can they do blow it up (should not be surprising since these porkies like to mindlessly self implode ).
    We need to acquire at least one more nuclear sub though and ensure K15 and K4 are upto the mark.
     
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