Portuguese navy ship to reach Goa on Nov 12

[Neil]

Portuguese navy's decorated ship, NRP Sagres will sail to Goan shores on November 12, amidst objections by freedom fighters against any celebration for completion of 500 years of Vasco-da-Gama's arrival in Goa.

"The tallest ship of the Portuguese Navy, NRP Sagres is visiting Goa as a part of its 2010 circumnavigation of the world," Portugal Consul General Dr Antonio Sabido Costa said.

The visit is to mark "the arrival of the Portuguese to the Orient and Extreme Orient, 500 years ago", he said here.

The ship and its crew will be received in Mormugao port by Rear Admiral Sudhir Pillai, flag officer commander of Goa. It will be docked there from November 12 to November 16.

Portuguese explorer Vasco-da-Gama was the first person to have touched the land for trade.

http://idrw.org/?p=1277

 

[Tshering22]

We don't need those rotten losers here again. Wonder why does our government follow "Enemy Diplomacy" all the bloody time. Goa has seen enough massacres from those boneheads. No need to remind the Goans of their painful past.

On a lighter note, Lets see what the Portuguese delegate has to say now that 49 years have passed since they took a thrashing at our hands..:emot15:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think she is cute.. :emot180:

 

[Armand2REP]

I think she is cute.. :emot180:

Isn't that the same piece of technology they sent to stop India in 1961? :emot15:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Isn't that the same piece of technology they sent to stop India in 1961? :emot15:

You mean NRP Afonso de Albuquerque!
No, She was there only, and fought IN frigates, She was torn apart and sunk, Portuguese never send any reinforcements, It was good that Portuguese at least fought us than surrender at first sight, I call it intelligent decision also brave, Unlike Pakistanis gave up with 90,000 troops equipped with tanks and Aircraft...

NRP Afonso de Albuquerque

The final combat
In late 1961, the NRP Afonso de Albuquerque was based in Goa as the leading naval unit of the Portuguese India Naval Command, with Captain Cunha Aragão as her commanding officer.At 09:00, the Afonso de Albuquerque sighted 3 Indian Navy ships, led by INS Betwa, just outside the Mormugao port.At 12:00 noon, as the Portuguese commanders refused to surrender, the Indian frigates INS Betwa and INS Beas forced the entrance into the port, and opened fire on NRP Afonso de Albuquerque. Afonso moved in the direction of the enemy ships and responded to fire. At the same time, the final radio message was sent to Lisbon: We are being attacked. We are responding.However, the Afonso was hit by the enemy fire. At the 12:20 when she tried to manoeuvre to a position in which she could use all its guns, the command bridge of Afonso was hit, killing the radio officer and seriously wounding Captain Cunha Aragão. The captain ordered the first officer Sarmento Gouveia, to assume command of the ship with instructions not to surrender. Under heavy fire directed at the shipAt 12:35, under massive fire and, already, with the boilers and the machines destroyed, the Afonso crew ran it aground onto the beach to be used as a fixed battery. The crew continued to resist and fight until about the 14:10. The crew was then taken prisoner by Indian forces on the next day at 20:30.

During her last combat, it is estimated that the NRP Afonso de Albuquerque fired almost 400 shells.


By 01 December 1961, the Naval HQ had instituted a surveillance and patrolling exercise - Operation Chutney. Two naval frigates, INS Betwa and INS Beas (Leopard Class frigates), commenced a linear patrol off the Goan coast, at a distance of 13 kilometres. The only Portuguese war vessel was the frigate, 'Alfonso de Albuquerque,' whose movements between Anjadiv island and Mormugao were reported. On 18 December 1961Albuquerque was at anchorage, at Mormugao Bay. INS Betwa was ordered to capture the vessel and she commenced on closing in on the vessel.At 1215 hours, INS Betwa commenced firing with her 4.5" guns and shortly Albuquerque surrendered and beached herself off Dona Paula jetty. Following the sinking of Albuquerque, The Indian Navy continued patrolling till 19 December 1961 and thereafter ships were ordered to return back to Bombay.

INS Betwa..

 

[Rage]

We don't need those rotten losers here again. Wonder why does our government follow "Enemy Diplomacy" all the bloody time. Goa has seen enough massacres from those boneheads. No need to remind the Goans of their painful past.

What is wrong with you? Not everything is to be taken as a threat.

We can't hold on to past grudges all the time. If we do, we'll have no friends left...

You'd think the Portuguese could do anything to us now? They were no match for India then, and they are no match for it now.

India and Portugal, as with Italy, have growing trade relations. With Trade largely one-sided in India's favour (over 90% of the trade turnover).

There are also over 45 joint projects in place in an Agreement signed for Science & Technology in 1998.

They're a good ally to have. Distant, benign and on a useful spot in the Atlantic ocean beside the continent of Africa, straddling Europe.

Let's tone down the venom shall we.

 

[mattster]

Guys....the Europeans are not the ones sitting on Indian Land. Its the Chinese. Save your fury for something more meaningful than a pretty sail-boat with high sails.

BTW: that is a darn good-looking sailboat.

 

[ganesh177]

Goan youth has a soft corner and repect for portugese. I remember the goan festival where if something went wrong from govt side, they took to street for yelling bring back portugese rule. :happy_2:

 

[Rage]

Goan youth has a soft corner and repect for portugese. I remember the goan festival where if something went wrong from govt side, they took to street for yelling bring back portugese rule. :happy_2:

The Goan youth today can't even find Portugal on a map, let alone have a soft corner for them.

 

[Yusuf]

Going by some comments here, we should then not have had anything to do with the British and French as well. More so with the British as they screwed our country for 2 centuries.

 

[Neil]

Goan youth has a soft corner and repect for portugese. I remember the goan festival where if something went wrong from govt side, they took to street for yelling bring back portugese rule. :happy_2:

i doubt it bro...i mean i have many goan friends and i have no doubt about their patriotism at all......

 

[Ray]

In a world that requires mutual support, it is always good to bury the past and build relationships and bond the old ones.

Portugal can never be a threat to India.

One would be surprised if anyone would like to return to Portuguese rule.

Therefore, all these cosmetic bridges of friendship should be welcomed.

 

[S.A.T.A]

wonder what part of the 'celebration' we have the honor to grace.This is definitely an interesting peace of International diplomacy.We should extend this further and commemorate the arrival Muhammad Ghuri's on indian soil jointly with Afghanistan.may be later on we could organize a similar celebration with Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan to mark the occasion of Qasim and Babur's arrival in India.If the British feel left out we could organize something to commemorate the historic occasion when Thomas Roe, or more befitting,Robert Clive's graced India with their presence.

 

[pmaitra]

We don't need those rotten losers here again. Wonder why does our government follow "Enemy Diplomacy" all the bloody time. Goa has seen enough massacres from those boneheads. No need to remind the Goans of their painful past.

On a lighter note, Lets see what the Portuguese delegate has to say now that 49 years have passed since they took a thrashing at our hands..:emot15:

India did not have diplomatic relations with Portugal for a long time. Now there is and that is because Portugal recognises Goa as a part of the Indian Union. Hence, why not explore the possibility of moving on instead of being emotional about the past? The Portuguese administration in Goa, then, was good for nothing and the people really suffered in many ways, but is Goa doing significantly better today?

 

[pmaitra]

In a world that requires mutual support, it is always good to bury the past and build relationships and bond the old ones.

Portugal can never be a threat to India.

One would be surprised if anyone would like to return to Portuguese rule.

Therefore, all these cosmetic bridges of friendship should be welcomed.

Ray Sir, you are absolutely correct.

If I may add, Portugal can never be a threat to India, however, India cannot initiate an attack on Portugal as a response to some unforseen dispute, because Portugal is part of NATO.

Portugal tried to use the same argument based on it's NATO membership during the Goa Liberation War in 1961, but failed because India had the sympathy of some of the worlds greatest democracies, because it had just become independent, given that Portugal had a dictatorship then, did not get US support and most European powers shied away from supporting colonialism as it was believed that all countries have the right to be sovereign.

Some of the same rules, especially the sympathy part, may not apply now. However, with strong Indo-US relations, any dispute, if it arises at all, will be solved by negotiations with intervention from other NATO members.

 

[Ray]

wonder what part of the 'celebration' we have the honor to grace.This is definitely an interesting peace of International diplomacy.We should extend this further and commemorate the arrival Muhammad Ghuri's on indian soil jointly with Afghanistan.may be later on we could organize a similar celebration with Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan to mark the occasion of Qasim and Babur's arrival in India.If the British feel left out we could organize something to commemorate the historic occasion when Thomas Roe, or more befitting,Robert Clive's graced India with their presence.

Pakistan history books state that Pakistan was there in 8 Century onwards and that Hindu India was a part of Pakistan that was lost during the course of history.

Now, if that is what it is, why are we allowing Pakistani leaders to come to India and to imagine such a bloke like Zia came to India - the very man who encouraged and abetted such history!!!!!

We were enslaved by the British and yet we welcomed Queen Elizabeth to India in 1956 and she got a large crowd lining up the streets than Khrushchev and Bulganin! Were those who lined the streets disloyal?

Why are British Ministers, latest being their Prime Minister, Cameron, allowed to set foot on Indian soil? Is our govt disloyal?

Why did Indians fight for the British in WW I and WWII? Were they disloyal? Why did the Indian Army send a contingent to UK when they had the anniversary parade of the WW II a few years back? Were those participating disloyal?

By the logic we should not pay homage to the Unknown Soldier at India Gate since it was a memorial for the fallen soldiers of the World Wars. And interestingly, the Indian Govt is fighting shy to build a befitting memorial for those who fell defending free India!

And if we are to hang on to history, then why have Indians migrated and still migrating by the scores to the UK? Are they all disloyal?

Why are so many going to the UK for higher education? All disloyal?

IMHO, while one should not forget history, it must be judiciously applied keeping pace with the times.

It is a reality that history cannot be wiped out. Only a bold and confident nation can face the ups and downs of history and look boldly towards the future without any animus!

 

[S.A.T.A]

@ ray
Visits from foreign dignitaries like the English Queen were not to mark the 'celebration' of Beginning of English on conquest of India and with the former colonists gleefully partaking in the 'celebration'.I dont know about you, but i will refuse to be part of this(and would wish India also)'celebration of Colonialism' .....

P.S:you sometimes tend to go off on a tangent and dwell into things which have no relevance to the subject

 

[Ray]

@ ray
Visits from foreign dignitaries like the English Queen were not to mark the 'celebration' of Beginning of English on conquest of India and with the former colonists gleefully partaking in the 'celebration'.I dont know about you, but i will refuse to be part of this(and would wish India also)'celebration of Colonialism' .....

P.S:you sometimes tend to go off on a tangent and dwell into things which have no relevance to the subject

With all due regards, I wonder if I go off on a tangent.

I do confess that I have no narrow 'tunnel vision'.

I am a trifle prone to observing the 'larger picture' and enmeshed that it may be with contradictions, and life is but a mesh of contradictions that have to be balanced, I prefer to see the option that ensure that the outcome is positive and not detrimental to the Nation.

If I were so steeped in animus of the colonial past, then even the visit of foreign dignitaries from countries who were once the rulers, would be a red rag to me. But then, would that in any way help those who are today languishing under poverty and illiteracy, or should we bury the past and move forward? I assure you that in no way changes the history or the perspectives.

But if we continue to burn our innards, then we might as well sail alone and stand up and face all our erstwhile rulers and say Damn you, we have nothing to do with you.

If that is feasible, then I am on your side of thinking!

 

[bengalraider]

I have to say that i am against the celebration not because of portugal and it's role in colonialism in india but because the celebration shall venrate one particular individual"Vasco De Gama". Vasco De Gama was no Marco polo out for exploration he was out to capture trading rights for the portugese crown by diplomacy(which he followed little of) or by force(something he excelled at). while the rounding of the cape of good hope may have been news for europeans ships from Africa and India had been making the voyage for centuries (an extensive predominantly european influenced education forces many of us to beleive otherwise). Vasco De Gama also has some notable acts of cruelty against Indians attributed to him as detailed below.

On 12 February 1502, Gama commnanded the 4th Portuguese Armada to India, a fleet of fifteen ships and eight hundred men, with the object of enforcing Portuguese interests in the east. On reaching India in October 1502, Gama started capturing any Arab vessel he came across in Indian waters. While the Zamorin was willing to sign a treaty, Gama made a preposterous call to the Hindu King to expel all Muslims from Calicut which was naturally turned down. He bombarded the city that destroyed several houses on the sea shore and captured several rice vessels and barbariously cut off the crew's hands, ears and noses.
During his second voyage to Calicut, Gama intercepted a ship of Muslim pilgrims at Madayi travelling from Calicut to Mecca. Described by the Portuguese historian Gaspar Correia as one that is unequalled in cold- blooded cruelty, Gama looted the ship with over 400 pilgrims on board including 50 women, locked the passengers, the owner and an ambassador from Egypt and burnt them to death. They offered their wealth which 'could ransom all the Christian slaves in the Kingdom of Fez and much more' but were not spared. Gama looked on through the porthole and saw the women bringing up their gold and jewels and holding up their babies to beg for mercy.
After demanding the expulsion of Muslims from Calicut to the Hindu Zamorin, the latter sent the high priest Talappana Namboothiri (the very same person who conducted Gama to the Zamorin's chamber during his much celebrated first visit to Calicut in May 1498) for talks, Gama called him a spy, ordered the priests' lips and ears to be cut off and after sewing a pair of dog's ears to his head, sent him away

 

[hit&run]

Many good posts by all members. I think is debatable, Aboriginal do not want Australia to celebrate the arrival of first fleet,something like that. All sentiments respected but same time i would say that i was impressed how ANZ pay tribute, remember, celebrate and Pilgrimage Gallipoli every year with Turkey.