Politicians stay away, but India cannot forget

[tharikiran]

with the recession in place, the Army should do good..

 

[F-14]

when will it change sir i have always felt that the armed services have been robed of their symbols & Honors like indian regiments can not show all of their Battle honors for eg :

the Sikh Regiment has the Following battle honors

Awards and citations
The Museum of the Regimental Centre displays a record of the Sikh Regiment in four halls viz.,

The Religious/motivational Hall,
The Hall of Heritage,
The Regimental Glory Hall
The Peripheral Gallery.
The Chief of Army Staff (COAS) made a special instant award of "Unit Citation" to 8th Battalion, The Sikh Regiment for their meritorious and gallant performance during the isolation of Tiger Hill, which facilitated the capture of Tiger Hill top and battles of Helmet and India Gate, features to the West of Tiger Hill top, on night 07/08 July 1999, in Dras Sector.

During Operation Vijay, the unit displayed sterling performance marked with exceptional valour and grit in the face of the enemy.

In all, the Regiment has to its credit 1652 gallantry awards and honours including

14 Victoria Crosses
2 Param Vir Chakra
Lance Naik Karam Singh in 1948 during Kashmir operations.
Subedar Joginder Singh during the Sino-Indian War of 1962.
14 Maha Vir Chakra (MVC)
68 Vir Chakra.
In addition it has also earned :

73 battle honours
38 theatre honours besides four COAS Unit Citation, including
the one bestowed upon 8 Sikh during the 1999 Kargil episode
and two "Bravest of the Brave" citations.

[edit] Battle Honours and Theatre Honours

[edit] Battle Honours
Pre-Independence
Lucknow 1857-58 1 SIKH
Defence of Arrah 1857 3 SIKH
Bihar 1857 3 SIKH
China 1860-62 2 SIKH
Ali Masjid 1878 1, 3 SIKH
Ahmed Khel 1880 2 SIKH
Afghanistan 1878-79 1 SIKH
Afghanistan 1878-80 2, 3 SIKH
Kandhar 1880 2 SIKH
Saukin 1885 2 SIKH
Tofrek 1885 2 SIKH
Manipur 1891 4 SIKH
Defence of Chitral 1895 1 SIKH
Chitral 1895 2 SIKH
Samana 1897 4 SIKH
Saragarhi/Gulistan 1897 4 SIKH
Punjab Frontier 1897 2, 3, 4 & 35 SIKH (SRC)
Malakand 1897 3 & 35 SIKH (SRC)
Tirah 1897-98 2 & 4 SIKH
China 1900 1 SIKH
NW Frontier 1908 3 SIKH
World War I
La Bassee 1914 2 & 5 SIKH
St Julien 1914 2 & 5 SIKH
Armentiers 1914-15 5 SIKH
Auber 1914 2 & 5 SIKH
Givens 1914 4 SIKH
Tsing-Tao (China) 1914 5 SIKH
Neuve Chappell 1914-15 2, 3 & 5 SIKH
France and Flanders 1914-15 2 & 5 SIKH
Suez Canal 1914-15 1 SIKH
Festubert 1915 2 SIKH
Tigris 1916 3 & 5 SIKH
Pyres 1915 2 & 4 SIKH
Sari Bair 1915 1 SIKH
Hells 1915 1 SIKH
Krishna 1915 1 SIKH
Suva 1915 1 SIKH
Gallipoli 1915 1 SIKH
Egypt 1915 1 SIKH
Mesopotamia 1916-18 1,3 & 4 SIKH
Sharon 1918 5 SIKH
Palestine 1918 5 SIKH
Baghdad 1916-18 5 SIKH
Kut-Al-Amara 1917 1,3 & 5 SIKH
Hai 1917 3 & 4 SIKH
Megiddo 1918 5 SIKH
Persia 1918 4 SIKH
Egypt 1918 2 & 3 SIKH
Sharot 1918 2 SIKH
Inter-War Years
NWFP 1918-19 35 (SRC) & 5 SIKH
Afghanistan 1919 2 & 35 SIKH (SRC)
Palestine 1921 35 (SRC) & 5 SIKH
Second World War
Agordat 1940-41 4 SIKH
Keren 1941 4 SIKH
Deir-el-Shein 1940-43 4 SIKH
Omars 1941 4 SIKH
Kuantan 1941-42 5 SIKH
Niyor 1941-42 5 SIKH
Mersa Matruh 1941-42 2 SIKH
Kota Bahru 1942 5 SIKH
North Arakan 1942-45 1 SIKH
Buthidaung 1942-45 1 SIKH
Coriano 1943-45 2 SIKH
San Mariano 1943-45 2 SIKH
Poggio San Giovanni 1943-45 2 SIKH
Monte Calvo 1943-45 4 SIKH
Kangla Tongbi 1944 1 SIKH
Gothic Line 1943-45 4 SIKH
Nyaungu Bridgehead 1945 1 SIKH
Irrawaddy Crossing 1945 1 SIKH
Shandatgyi 1945 1 SIKH
Kama 1945 1 SIKH
Sittang 1945 1 SIKH
Post-Independence
Srinagar 1947 1 SIKH
Tithwal 1948 1 SIKH
Raja Picquet 1965 2 SIKH
Burki 1965 4 SIKH
Op Hill 1965 7 SIKH
Siramani 1971 4 SIKH
Defence of Punch (Poonch) 1971 6 SIKH
Purbat Ali 1971 10 SIKH
Tiger Hill 1999 8 SIKH

[edit] Theatre Honours
Pre-Independence
North Africa 1940-43 2 & 4 SIKH
Abyssinia 1940-41 4 SIKH
Iraq 1941 3 SIKH
North Africa 1941-42 3 SIKH
Malaya 1941-42 5 SIKH
Burma 1942-45 1 SIKH
Italy 1943-45 2 & 4 SIKH
Greece 1944-45 2 SIKH
Post-Independence
Jammu & Kashmir 1947-48 1,5,7 & 16 SIKH
Jammu & Kashmir 1965 2,3 & 7 SIKH
Punjab 1965 4 SIKH
Sindh 1971 10 SIKH
Punjab 1971 2 SIKH
East Pakistan 1971 4 SIKH
Jammu & Kashmir 1971 5 & 6 SIKH
Kargil 1999 8 SIKH

but how many will we find on the Regimental Battle colors ??

 

[Ray]

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | International | Steel murder

I might as well add, every year the Eastern Command has a grand Celebration to commemorate the Liberation of Bangladesh.

Mukti Bahini and others from Bangladesh are invited and feted with Eastern Command funds!!

Does the country even remember 1971?

 

[tharikiran]

At least I had the best 2 years of my life in Vizag. The whole of vizag used to be on the beach road during the navy celebrations every year.All the ships lined up just 200 meters away from the shoreline.

 

[Ray]

F 14,

The politicians and I don't call them leaders, only understand votes and vote bank politics.

The Armed Forces, because of their training (call it of their colonial past, though there are none who can claim to be pre Independence) will not act as a vote bank, it can be neglected and even damned.

It is the people of the country which can galvanise the politicians into action. Saw how the popular national sentiments kicked the govt into action and some heads rolled and a law was also incorporated (which they were fighting shy to enact)?

Therefore, it is the people who can instil the confidence of the Armed Forces, by galavanising the politicians into action.

But then, if sentiments as aired by xebex - I think PM paid tribute at Amar Jawan , Jyothi which is the holy ground of ALL the brave soldiers of Mother India, then there will come a time, when the Armed Forces too will lose interest in doing their job and merely take it as a means to keep their hearth and home intact. We are already moving that way!

In the UK, you have the Rememberance day and in the US, the Veterans Day and what do you have in India? Not even a Forget Them day!!

But of course, everyone including the Congress spokesman Singhvi on the NDTV Big Fight had mealy mouthed pious platitudes and homilies as to how they love the Armed Forces and are sooooooooooo grateful to them and other such crock! Hypocrites!!

 

[F-14]

sir there is a saying that the Indian Army is more British then the British army

 

[Ray]

sir there is a saying that the Indian Army is more British then the British army

The British Army is in shambles and so they are no longer what they were.

We are not British at all, but the good aspects are still preserved but fading. What was in my father's time when he was in the Army, it is but a ghost of those times.

Now compare our politicians on Vijay Diwas with:

If you read Lt Gen Lakhera's (Governor of Mizoram) Towrds Resurgent India, he writes that when he had gone as the Deputy Leader of the Indian Delegation to take part in the 50th Anniversary Celebrations of victory of Allies over Germany, he and four others were waiting to cross the road to the vehicle park after the Inaugeral addess. Amongst those waiting was also Hony Capt Umrao Singh who was a Victoria Cross winner.

Suddenly a car came to a stop and a well dressed gentleman stepped out. He walked across and approached Umrao Singh and said, "Sir, may I have the privilege to shake the hand with the Victoria Cross?" He shook the hand. Evidently, he had spotted Umrao Singh's VC from his car and stopped to pay respect to the winner of the highest gallantry mesdal of his country. Then, he looked at Gen Lakhera and said, "General, you are from the Indian Army/" While I replied in the affirmative, he gave his name - he was Micheal Hasseltime. It dawned on Gen Lakhera that this was none other than the Deputy PM of UK!


Gen Lakhera was overwhelmed by the courtesy shown by the second highest dignitary of the country! He thanked the Deputy PM for having invited the Indians to participate.

MIcheal Hasseltine replied, "General, it is we the British, who should be grateful to your country and your Armed Forces, who helped us ot win both WWi and WWII. How can we be so ungrateful to forget your country's great contribution?"

Since all traffic had stopped, Gen Lakhera drew his attention to this fact. Hasseltine replied, "How dare I drive off when a Victoria Cross has to cross the road?" Hasseltine waited and watched the Victoria Cross cross the road and then he entered his car and drove off.

Gen Lakhera regrets that such courtsey ahd honour is not shown to the PVCs and others by our leaders!



I am not saying mollycoddle the Armed Forces. I am saying give them back their honour and dignity.

If you treat people as scum, your result from such scum will be equally noxious!

Why do you think the IAS moves around with elan? Polticians will not dare meddle with them. They know the ins and outs of their shady activities!

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

An awesome occurrence Ray Sir... Be rest assured that nothing of this sort will ever happen in our country (atleast with the current breed of politicians)...

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

Frankly speaking after hearing events like you've recounted above, I feel sorry for the defence forces because we've as a country not lived upto their expectations... We only pay lip service to them on such occassions as Vijay Divas and then conveniently forget about it a day later...

 

[Ray]

But they will lay a wreath (lousier than the bouquettes given to Sonia Gandhi on her birthday) paid by the Defence and salute like some comic police carricature in a Hindi film!

 

[F-14]

agreed sir but even if the politicos froget the armed forces we shall always remeber you people as the ones who stay awake for us on the borders as for treditions it is part of ones life and the same goes for the forces these are yours and if you should fight for it you should because treditions are the soul that propel a nation and its armed forces

 

[NikSha]

This PM is the worst ever, like I said before. I think his mistress Sonia just points to a random location on a map to for him to decide his "priorities of the day".

Also, I think it's hilarious that where there's "glory" and big new coverage, he just runs there as fast as he can as directed by the Sonia party.. err, the Congress party advertising unit. Pretty amazing how Sonia has managed to control this country after all that "giving up the PM post" drama by setting up a nobody president and a girlish, "sounds like he's about to cry" PM. At least ppl like Vajpayee had something interesting to say on their own (even if he took is sweet time) without needing 200 people to prepare their speeches (another interesting thing about Singh).

If war comes, they will probably kick Singh off the stage to get someone with enough testosterone to say something worthy of men who are about to sacrifice themselves for these stooges in the battlefield.


EDIT: Why isn't this thread stickied? Not good enough as a discussion against Kashmir issue or what? I didn't even know it was here FFS, at least sticky it for the time being someone.

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

And the worst part was when one of the Congress party functionaries in a news interview to a leading channel described Vijay Diwas as "BJP's War" and so the BJP should be celebrating and not the country...

Can anybody give me three good reasons why this fellow should not be jailed ???

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

^^ This is that link by the way -

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Congress MP says Kargil was "BJP's War"

 

[Ray]

Frankly speaking after hearing events like you've recounted above, I feel sorry for the defence forces because we've as a country not lived upto their expectations... We only pay lip service to them on such occassions as Vijay Divas and then conveniently forget about it a day later...

I will be very frank, the people of the country excepting some, on these occasion do pay their respect and remember their martyrs.

In Kolkata, I know of one locality which paid homage to one slain Bengali officer who lived in Baranagar and they had made a memorial of their own.

However, it is the so called leaders who are politicians who care for themselves and not for others, not even for the country. The sell out at Havana and Sharm al Sharif requires no elaboration - Peace at all Costs and then get kicked at a later date!

Man we are living in Alice in Wonderland!

 

[NikSha]

Alright, we can't just blame the politicians. Are the youngsters these days busy doing anything but aping Bollywood/Hollywood and anything western mindlessly? Is there a world outside all this for them? These soldiers are useless and don't exist as far as most of the "next-gen" is concerned.

The only thing that will wake them up is another brutal war where we will end up probably nuking Pakistan.

 

[Ray]

This is an unique country.

Roger Vadhera (Priyanka Gandhi's husband) or whatever be his name and neither will our Ruling Dynasty be frisked at the airport, but the three Chiefs (responsible for the integrity and sovereignty of the country) and the ex President can be!

The three Chiefs are now exempt.

We can't get reservation on trains and that is important as our leaves cannot be planned and are practically on the spot, depending on the vacancy and operational commitments, our court cases will not be heard when we are on leave, but will be heard when we have gone away and cannot come, the police have arrested some of us (when they can't, they can only detain and inform the CO as per law) and the Govt then wishes away the same as an error (can humiliation be also wished away?). I could go on and on.

Many ask why are the Armed Forces officers not joining the Armed Forces?

Does it require an answer?

Let others also appreciate the humiliation and degradation! And then when there are many who realise the real worth, then maybe their families who are votes can pressurise the govt to wake up!

It is no idea of having nuclear submarines and gloating over it when the entry is dwindling and the standards for entry being in the lower bracket of the acceptance level!

The Nation gets the Armed Forces that it deserves!

 

[Ray]

Alright, we can't just blame the politicians. Are the youngsters these days busy doing anything but aping Bollywood/Hollywood and anything western mindlessly? Is there a world outside all this for them? These soldiers are useless and don't exist as far as most of the "next-gen" is concerned.

The only thing that will wake them up is another brutal war where we will end up probably nuking Pakistan.

I don't think it is anything to do with the Next Gen.

They will follow where there is the Holy Grail and it is not money alone. It is honour, dignity and respect from society.

The IAS gets excellent people even now, so does the IFS. Why? They have honour, dignity and perks (need not be money or even material).

Give back the honour and dignity to the Services and rid the Police of political control (mainly in posting and promotions) and you will have a ticking govt instruments of governance.

My granduncle was an ICS and a Chief Secretary of a State. I was in school then. I asked him how come he did not take a bribe. He said he was so well paid and so well looked after by the Govt and had all the honour bestowed on him for his service by the govt and by the people that there was no requirement to take a bribe!

 

[F-14]

sir as the Arty regiment says izzat-o- Iqbal

 

[Ray]

Naam, Namak aur Nishan!